LTF good book(s) on Cadence Pspice

H

Homer.Simpson

Guest
I've been using Saber for years and would like to become more
"PSPICE/SPICE" knowledgeable. Can anyone recommend a good book?

I'd like to come up to speed on Cadence Capture, PSPICE, and detailed
editing of SPICE models. Apparently, the models I'm finding are
lacking some key characteristics. (Temp being a major one)

These are the present contenders:

Rashid, Muhammad H.
SPICE for Circuits and Electronics Using PSPICE
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?ph=2&bi=209196043

Marc E. E. Herniter
Schematic Capture with Cadence PSpice
http://tinyurl.com/dydz3

Any favorite books?

TIA
 
On 28 Apr 2005 03:45:46 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
<Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

I've been using Saber for years and would like to become more
"PSPICE/SPICE" knowledgeable. Can anyone recommend a good book?

I'd like to come up to speed on Cadence Capture, PSPICE, and detailed
editing of SPICE models. Apparently, the models I'm finding are
lacking some key characteristics. (Temp being a major one)
Click to expand...
I'm puzzled by that comment. CMOS and BJT _inherently_ model
temperature effects. The _standard_ passives requires you to enter a
value (or values, if second order), otherwise zero is assumed. I/C
passive are usually quite thoroughly modeled with substrate effects,
etc.

These are the present contenders:

Rashid, Muhammad H.
SPICE for Circuits and Electronics Using PSPICE
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?ph=2&bi=209196043

Marc E. E. Herniter
Schematic Capture with Cadence PSpice
http://tinyurl.com/dydz3

Any favorite books?

TIA
Click to expand...
"Spice, A Guide to Circuit Simulation & Analysis Using PSpice", Paul
W. Tuinenga, Prentice Hall, 1995, ISBN 0-13-158775-7

is the classic.

Though it's out-of-print, you can obtain good quality copies from used
book dealers... I think most people who bought it didn't read it
cover-to-cover ;-) My copy came from a library and is in mint
condition.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote...
"Spice, A Guide to Circuit Simulation & Analysis Using PSpice",
Paul W. Tuinenga, Prentice Hall, 1995, ISBN 0-13-158775-7
is the classic.

Though it's out-of-print, you can obtain good quality copies from
used book dealers... I think most people who bought it didn't read
it cover-to-cover ;-) My copy came from a library and is in mint
condition.
Click to expand...
Is your copy still in unused mint condition?


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On 28 Apr 2005 14:00:03 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

"Spice, A Guide to Circuit Simulation & Analysis Using PSpice",
Paul W. Tuinenga, Prentice Hall, 1995, ISBN 0-13-158775-7
is the classic.

Though it's out-of-print, you can obtain good quality copies from
used book dealers... I think most people who bought it didn't read
it cover-to-cover ;-) My copy came from a library and is in mint
condition.

Is your copy still in unused mint condition?
Click to expand...
Just about. I bought it for my "shelf", to make sure I have copies
for all the "classics" before they become truly unavailable.

I had a copy once before, but like lots of books I've owned, I loaned
it to dishonorable persons unknown.

Same with my Motorola PLL booklet. But a very kind soul lurking on
this newsgroup sent me a replacement, and wouldn't accept payment.

I now have a no-loan policy for books and tools, not even to
relatives... particularly relatives ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson said

On 28 Apr 2005 03:45:46 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

I'd like to come up to speed on Cadence Capture, PSPICE, and
detailed editing of SPICE models. Apparently, the models I'm
finding are lacking some key characteristics. (Temp being a
major one)

I'm puzzled by that comment. CMOS and BJT _inherently_ model
temperature effects. The _standard_ passives requires you to
enter a value (or values, if second order), otherwise zero is
assumed. I/C passive are usually quite thoroughly modeled with
substrate effects, etc.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I am confused. Take, for example, an IRF150
from the PSPICE "evaluation" library. I set it's Vgs@10V
and Id@25A and perform a temperature parameter sweep of
-40C, 25C, and 125C.

The RDSons (V(m1:d)/I(m1:d)) is 52m at 25C. However,
the -40C and 125C RDSons are 36m and 82m respectively.

The part specifies an RDSon of 55m@Vgs=10V@Id=25A.

So apparently the model is temperature sensitive but is
not providing the 0.7x and 2.0x RDSons I hope to see at
-40C and 125C.

These are the present contenders:
snip
Any favorite books?

"Spice, A Guide to Circuit Simulation & Analysis Using PSpice",
Paul W. Tuinenga, Prentice Hall, 1995, ISBN 0-13-158775-7
is the classic.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
Jim Thompson wrote...
I now have a no-loan policy for books and tools, not
even to relatives... particularly relatives ;-)
Click to expand...
Watch out, you'll grow old and die, while hogging all your
electronics treasures, and your wife or children will have
to sell them on eBay, saying "From the estate of an old IC
designer... Unable to evaluate or test, sold as is, do we
have any bidders?"


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On 29 Apr 2005 00:27:49 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
<Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

Jim Thompson said

On 28 Apr 2005 03:45:46 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

I'd like to come up to speed on Cadence Capture, PSPICE, and
detailed editing of SPICE models. Apparently, the models I'm
finding are lacking some key characteristics. (Temp being a
major one)

I'm puzzled by that comment. CMOS and BJT _inherently_ model
temperature effects. The _standard_ passives requires you to
enter a value (or values, if second order), otherwise zero is
assumed. I/C passive are usually quite thoroughly modeled with
substrate effects, etc.

Perhaps I am confused. Take, for example, an IRF150
from the PSPICE "evaluation" library. I set it's Vgs@10V
and Id@25A and perform a temperature parameter sweep of
-40C, 25C, and 125C.

The RDSons (V(m1:d)/I(m1:d)) is 52m at 25C. However,
the -40C and 125C RDSons are 36m and 82m respectively.

The part specifies an RDSon of 55m@Vgs=10V@Id=25A.

So apparently the model is temperature sensitive but is
not providing the 0.7x and 2.0x RDSons I hope to see at
-40C and 125C.

These are the present contenders:
snip
Any favorite books?

"Spice, A Guide to Circuit Simulation & Analysis Using PSpice",
Paul W. Tuinenga, Prentice Hall, 1995, ISBN 0-13-158775-7
is the classic.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
(1) Where did you get the 0.7X and 2.0X numbers... from some text
book?

(2) The device Spice model is likely Level=3... not the most robust
model in the world.

(3) Discrete device suppliers are notorious for providing sloppy
models

(4) In other words, the problem is with model quality, not PSpice; or
any other Spice for that matter.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On 28 Apr 2005 17:31:56 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I now have a no-loan policy for books and tools, not
even to relatives... particularly relatives ;-)

Watch out, you'll grow old and die, while hogging all your
electronics treasures, and your wife or children will have
to sell them on eBay, saying "From the estate of an old IC
designer... Unable to evaluate or test, sold as is, do we
have any bidders?"
Click to expand...
The best way to get a tool ruined is to loan to a relative ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson said

On 29 Apr 2005 00:27:49 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

So apparently the model is temperature sensitive but is
not providing the 0.7x and 2.0x RDSons I hope to see at
-40C and 125C.

(1) Where did you get the 0.7X and 2.0X numbers... from some text
book?
Click to expand...
From the RDSon verses temp curve of the part PDF. This is typical
for discrete MOSFETS.

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/jantx2n6764.pdf
Figure 4

(4) In other words, the problem is with model quality, not
PSpice; or any other Spice for that matter.
Click to expand...
Indeed. This is why I'd like to understand the SPICE model. A buddy
of mine has some old (DOS) PSPICE manuals that describe the various
model parameters. I intend to add a temp coefficient to the Rd and Rs
terms. I suppose the KP term is also a candidate.... but I don't
fully understand what the hell it is. ;-) It's called a
Transconductance Term but has units of A/(V^2).

BTW, I found a hardcopy of your "classic" book on AbeBooks for ~$30.
As soon as I confirm the quality... it's mine. ;-D
 
On 29 Apr 2005 01:04:06 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
<Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

Jim Thompson said

On 29 Apr 2005 00:27:49 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

So apparently the model is temperature sensitive but is
not providing the 0.7x and 2.0x RDSons I hope to see at
-40C and 125C.

(1) Where did you get the 0.7X and 2.0X numbers... from some text
book?

From the RDSon verses temp curve of the part PDF. This is typical
for discrete MOSFETS.

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/jantx2n6764.pdf
Figure 4

(4) In other words, the problem is with model quality, not
PSpice; or any other Spice for that matter.

Indeed. This is why I'd like to understand the SPICE model. A buddy
of mine has some old (DOS) PSPICE manuals that describe the various
model parameters. I intend to add a temp coefficient to the Rd and Rs
terms. I suppose the KP term is also a candidate.... but I don't
fully understand what the hell it is. ;-) It's called a
Transconductance Term but has units of A/(V^2).

BTW, I found a hardcopy of your "classic" book on AbeBooks for ~$30.
As soon as I confirm the quality... it's mine. ;-D
Click to expand...
The model parameters and equations are in the reference guide.

There's also "Semiconductor Device Modeling with Spice", Antognetti
and Massobrio, McGraw-Hill, 1988, ISBN 0-07-002107-4

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson said

On 29 Apr 2005 01:04:06 GMT, "Homer.Simpson"
Homer.Simpson@SpringfieldBB.com.INVALID> wrote:

BTW, I found a hardcopy of your "classic" book on AbeBooks for
~$30. As soon as I confirm the quality... it's mine. ;-D

The model parameters and equations are in the reference guide.
Click to expand...
Excellent.

There's also "Semiconductor Device Modeling with Spice",
Antognetti and Massobrio, McGraw-Hill, 1988, ISBN 0-07-002107-4
Click to expand...
Thanks for all your guidance.
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:31:56 -0700, Winfield Hill wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I now have a no-loan policy for books and tools, not
even to relatives... particularly relatives ;-)

Watch out, you'll grow old and die, while hogging all your
electronics treasures, and your wife or children will have
to sell them on eBay, saying "From the estate of an old IC
designer... Unable to evaluate or test, sold as is, do we
have any bidders?"
Click to expand...
Wasn't it some old Chinese philosopher/warrior who said something
to the effect that the best success is to see my enemy's corpse
floating down the river? >;->

Cheers!
Rich
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:52:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On 28 Apr 2005 17:31:56 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I now have a no-loan policy for books and tools, not
even to relatives... particularly relatives ;-)

Watch out, you'll grow old and die, while hogging all your
electronics treasures, and your wife or children will have
to sell them on eBay, saying "From the estate of an old IC
designer... Unable to evaluate or test, sold as is, do we
have any bidders?"

The best way to get a tool ruined is to loan to a relative ;-)
Click to expand...
This is just _soooo_ ripe, but I'll take the high road here. >;->

Thanks,
Rich
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote (in <pan.2005.04.29.21.26.38.202032@example.net>) about 'LTF good
book(s) on Cadence Pspice', on Fri, 29 Apr 2005:

Wasn't it some old Chinese philosopher/warrior who said something to
the effect that the best success is to see my enemy's corpse floating
down the river? >;-
..... but not if you've just drunk the water!
Click to expand...
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
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