Lead acid battery desulfination?

[Jan Panteltje]

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/
f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-
car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back
alive?
Circuits?

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if
desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership
would have a machine.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:22:39 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott

tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in

zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:



On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,

The telephone system routinely rebuilt their batteries after aging
and sulphination lowered the battery capacity. They re-smelted the
lead and that sure got rid of the sulphate! It's not just new paint disease,
the new battery really DOES solve the problem.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott
<tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in
<zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/
f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-
car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back
alive?
Circuits?

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

Some do.

And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if
desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership
would have a machine.

I've read US army (whatever you may think of it) has nice desulphators in use, google says,

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,
just looking for a faster way.
I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again.
It is still running... on pulse now.

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:22:39 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott
tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in
zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/
f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-
Desulfation-
car-battery-charger-/171399004719?
pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for
a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my
battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back
alive?
Circuits?

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

Some do.


And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if
desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership
would have a machine.

I've read US army (whatever you may think of it) has nice desulphators
in use, google says,

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,
just looking for a faster way.
I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again.
It is still running... on pulse now.

Let us know how it works out. I suspect that you'll just end up with a
battery that's never quite 100% capacity, and that either wears out quick
or isn't reliable.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 14:42:14 -0500, Tim Wescott
<tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:22:39 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,
just looking for a faster way.
I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again.
It is still running... on pulse now.

Let us know how it works out. I suspect that you'll just end up with a
battery that's never quite 100% capacity, and that either wears out quick
or isn't reliable.

---
Teach a corpse how to work and you can get it to pay for its own
funeral.

John Fields

 

[Carl Ijames]

Well, you could try the epsom's salt rejunevation technique, a search will
turn up lots and lots of hits. May not work, but it is quick . Never
tried it myself so curious if you do it how it goes.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message news:lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de...

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

 

[Kevin McMurtrie]

In article <lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>,
Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503
08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat
tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

I've tried a couple of charger tricks:
- A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current
- Momentarily draw a huge current

Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case
where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if
that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the
sponge lead.


In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead
acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge
lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The
rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a
while.

Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're
difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some
different options for power density versus ruggedness there.

 

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:52:22 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:

In article <lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>,
Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503
08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat
tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

I've tried a couple of charger tricks:
- A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current
- Momentarily draw a huge current

Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case
where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if
that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the
sponge lead.


In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead
acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge
lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The
rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a
while.

Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're
difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some
different options for power density versus ruggedness there.

It all depends on the use. I wouldn't use NMH or Lion for a starter
battery and would be hesitant for anything that's float charged for
years at a time (LIon, maybe), like egress lighting. I really don't
see the use for NMH anymore. LIon has pretty much taken over that
space. LIon's biggest negative is its cost (and fire hazard if not
properly cared for). NMH is dirt cheap and, for those who lose sleep
about such things, "environmentally friendly". For car (starter)
batteries, nothing comes close to lead-acid. Cheap, reliable, and
effective.

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

Lightly sulfated battery's can show an improvement. heavily sulfated
batteries don't recover. The best method is the high frequency fly
back, the idea is to loosen the sulfur so that it can be reabsorbed
into the electrolyte. As the sulfur builds on the plates it becomes
hard and is difficult to remove with normal charging.

Cheers

 

[Robert Baer]

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

In article<lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>,
Jan Panteltje<panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503
08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat
tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

I've tried a couple of charger tricks:
- A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current
- Momentarily draw a huge current

Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case
where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if
that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the
sponge lead.

* Sulfate buildup. Te worse it is, the more the voltage is needed to get
a decent current.
"Zapping" tends to knock off the sulfate in flakes which drops to the
bottom, and battery life as well as reliability is decreased.

In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead
acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge
lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The
rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a
while.
* Then toss the car away; i am sure you could find a taker or two...

Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're
difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some
different options for power density versus ruggedness there.

 

[Robert Baer]

Carl Ijames wrote:
> epsom's salt
I strongly suggest tat you do NOT use epsom's salt or any other
non-compatible crap.
The battery is guaranteed to not last long if you try that.

 

[Robert Baer]

Tim Wescott wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:22:39 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott
tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in
zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/
f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-
Desulfation-
car-battery-charger-/171399004719?
pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for
a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my
battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back
alive?
Circuits?

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

Some do.


And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if
desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership
would have a machine.

I've read US army (whatever you may think of it) has nice desulphators
in use, google says,

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,
just looking for a faster way.
I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again.
It is still running... on pulse now.

Let us know how it works out. I suspect that you'll just end up with a
battery that's never quite 100% capacity, and that either wears out quick
or isn't reliable.

The battery i recovered (using adjustable AC source, series capacitor
and protection diode) seemed to recover to full capacity - including
cranking power.

 

[Robert Baer]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

I recovered a lead-acid battery that was so bad that the current it
initially passed was only a few milliamps at 120VAC.
The trick is (a) put a diode across the battery to protect it from
reverse polarity, (2) use a capacitor in series with an AC source; use a
variac to adjust line voltage for C/20 current.
Beware of *EXPLOSIVE* hydrogen; keep area well ventilated.
If you are in more of a hurry, use C/10 but no more.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:18:25 -0400) it happened Martin Riddle
<martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote in
<ctqat9p8h5okbp3llirggnovrareoojvur@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

Lightly sulfated battery's can show an improvement. heavily sulfated
batteries don't recover. The best method is the high frequency fly
back, the idea is to loosen the sulfur so that it can be reabsorbed
into the electrolyte. As the sulfur builds on the plates it becomes
hard and is difficult to remove with normal charging.

Cheers

Thank you, will let it run some days and then see what happened to capacity.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 16:18:56 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
<5a01209d-2cce-49fc-9ec4-02898fb26c0e@googlegroups.com>:

On Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:22:39 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott

tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in

zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:



On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few
weeks.

I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts
store and exchange it for a new one.

It is good business to sell people a new battery.
But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,

The telephone system routinely rebuilt their batteries after aging
and sulphination lowered the battery capacity. They re-smelted the
lead and that sure got rid of the sulphate! It's not just new paint disease,
the new battery really DOES solve the problem.

Melting lead is energy expensive....

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:52:22 -0700) it happened Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote in
<mcmurtrie-0AB479.13522227072014@news.sonic.net>:

In article <lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>,
Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503
08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat
tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a
helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

I've tried a couple of charger tricks:
- A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current
- Momentarily draw a huge current

Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case
where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if
that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the
sponge lead.


In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead
acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge
lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The
rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a
while.

Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're
difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some
different options for power density versus ruggedness there.

I have some LiFePO4 batteries on order from ebay.
Those seem to have a very long life, and are safe.
Nothing arrived, they asked me for feedback,
then they send me a message they got the battery back from the shipping company.
It could be airlines are paranoid about anything that has 'battery' in it...
So they resend some weeks ago, still has not arrived...
maybe same procedure, will ask again.
I would really like to test those
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

More charge-discharge cycles, but VERY expensive.

 

[Robert Baer]

Martin Riddle wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje<panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

Lightly sulfated battery's can show an improvement. heavily sulfated
batteries don't recover.

* Not true; proper method of de-sulphation works on any sulfated
lead-acid battery, and in many cases can lead to a battery fully recovered.

The best method is the high frequency fly
* Nope!

back, the idea is to loosen the sulfur so that it can be reabsorbed
into the electrolyte. As the sulfur builds on the plates it becomes
hard and is difficult to remove with normal charging.
* Key word "normal".

Cheers

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 22:47:21 -0700) it happened Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote in <KtlBv.93904$E36.26306@fx15.iad>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?
I recovered a lead-acid battery that was so bad that the current it
initially passed was only a few milliamps at 120VAC.
The trick is (a) put a diode across the battery to protect it from
reverse polarity, (2) use a capacitor in series with an AC source; use a
variac to adjust line voltage for C/20 current.
Beware of *EXPLOSIVE* hydrogen; keep area well ventilated.
If you are in more of a hurry, use C/10 but no more.

Interesting, and easy to do.

 

[Charlie+]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 05:33:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
wrote as underneath :

On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 17:18:25 -0400) it happened Martin Riddle
martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote in
ctqat9p8h5okbp3llirggnovrareoojvur@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks.
The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery.
The battery had only 1/10 of capacity,
now it has 1/8.
Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery.
You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f
But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser).
So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery.
Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average...
nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive?
Circuits?

Lightly sulfated battery's can show an improvement. heavily sulfated
batteries don't recover. The best method is the high frequency fly
back, the idea is to loosen the sulfur so that it can be reabsorbed
into the electrolyte. As the sulfur builds on the plates it becomes
hard and is difficult to remove with normal charging.

Cheers

Thank you, will let it run some days and then see what happened to capacity.

I ran a commercial desulphator on a below par but still in use car (12V)
8 year old OEM (filled for life) battery for 2 months measuring the 100
Amp discharge voltage accurately at weekly intervals from prior to use
to the end. The desulphator was doing a lot, car wouldnt start after 3
days without recharging! The battery was fully charged to peak prior to
each measurement.
Here is a pic of the desulphator output while working: The bursts are at
about 63KHz. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzc653wc1z439e7/Imgp1174.jpg
Conclusion: Its a snake oil solution, just doesnt work on this test with
a premium battery that has never been mistreated and is just loosing
peak cold cranking capacity, measurements showed 10.2v (after 10 seconds
under 100A load) from start to finish. A brand new battery under the
same test only shows about .5v more, its a fairly severe test. C+