E
Eeyore
Guest
Daniel Mandic wrote:
Graham
I wasn't sure if that was what you meant. Understood.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
John Larkin wrote:
I'd certainly like to see something done about Zimbabwe.
Graham
Funny names you're using there.
I'd certainly like to see something done about Zimbabwe.
Graham
J
Jonathan Kirwan
Guest
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:10:40 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
admit it is long and tedious, but down in the middle of it is some
good collected info on the overarching figures going into capital
assets v. operational expenses and 'good works'. None of that takes
away from what you write above, nor does your story take away from it.
Mike, I need to add something here. I have a profoundly autistic
daughter and she still lives with me, at age 23. She also has grand
mal seizures and these have broken out six teeth in one event and
broken her forearm, right through both the radius and ulna in another
event. All within the last four years, or so.
We are very actively involved locally and have been most of this time.
I am fortunate enough that my work allows me some range, here. I see,
personally because I attend them, various religious events where we
parents and their adult children or young children get together for
extended times (from Friday afternoon until the following Sunday
afternoon, a few times a year.)
The last case, a Catholic retreat, really worked out for our daughter
and us. It was a definite success. But there were many clinically
depressed parents I talked with, too. All died-in-the-wool Catholics
and active in their churches. Afterwards, over that Sunday night and
the following day, I thought about those experiences and the need and
the people I met and their children. And I cried.
I called up the person at the diocese here that works so very hard and
puts these on. She was a Catholic nun for a time and I deeply respect
her, from years of talking with her. She didn't deserve it; she's
done so much personally; but I laid into her, angrily. I used the
Catholic scriptural descriptions, citing from the sermon on the mount
like a priest might, with energy and verve, telling her that there is
NO EXCUSE -- none at all -- for people like this. If anything, their
faith (and I was raised Catholic, salt and pepper pants and white
shirt to school, etc., but it is no longer mine) talks about those who
are the least among them; to not to be like the hypocrites who make
public their charities; that what they do for their own is no
different than the gentiles, so it should be done for all and not just
Catholics; etc., etc. She and I spoke for hours. I was so angry and
where these parents and their children were, yet they were part of
those who seem like just hypocrites in their faith to me.
I will be continuing these discussions with others further up the
chain of administration in the Catholic Church as well as other
churches, too. This doesn't end, to be true. But when I see billions
of dollars flowing into capital investments, so little for operation
by comparison, and those at the very bottom, the least able to care
for themselves, having so little and being literally unable to leave
their own homes, it wears on me. Because I know the situation deeply.
It is burnished into my soul with long, personal experience, too.
These are my family I see out there, people I know bonded by common
experience that few understand well, alone pretty much and without
help from those who pretend their religion and little else besides.
The sermon is clear. It's message is clear. Matthew puts it, "By
their fruits ye shall know them." Yet where are these fruits, those
one would expect from a healthy faith and an adherence to the sermon?
Sorry to vent, Mike. But I see the churches going up all over the
place here. I see the huge investments. I read the reports. I see
how much goes into providing for the "least among you" and how much
goes into resources for the able and capable.
It's not just the churches. I don't mean to poke only at them. They
are just showing the same symptoms as found in the rest of society.
The difference is that Christians actually _have_ a core creed, in
fact the very inner most and deepest part of it all out of which all
the rest flows, that speaks to this issue. And instead I see families
in need within the churches, let alone outside them, in terrible pain
and difficulty.
I suppose secular society can spout excuses. They don't have a core
philosophy about the meek and poor and a failure here isn't
necessarily hypocrisy. But what excuse, Christians??? I find none.
I know that you also have your own experiences here and they speak to
you as loudly as mine do for me. You and I see a side of this many
don't. I volunteer, I work, I care, and I share what I have with
others. And I'm an atheist, more or less. The hypocrisy just bugs
me, at times.
Jon
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Excellent information. Thanks. I don't know if you read the link, I
admit it is long and tedious, but down in the middle of it is some
good collected info on the overarching figures going into capital
assets v. operational expenses and 'good works'. None of that takes
away from what you write above, nor does your story take away from it.
Mike, I need to add something here. I have a profoundly autistic
daughter and she still lives with me, at age 23. She also has grand
mal seizures and these have broken out six teeth in one event and
broken her forearm, right through both the radius and ulna in another
event. All within the last four years, or so.
We are very actively involved locally and have been most of this time.
I am fortunate enough that my work allows me some range, here. I see,
personally because I attend them, various religious events where we
parents and their adult children or young children get together for
extended times (from Friday afternoon until the following Sunday
afternoon, a few times a year.)
The last case, a Catholic retreat, really worked out for our daughter
and us. It was a definite success. But there were many clinically
depressed parents I talked with, too. All died-in-the-wool Catholics
and active in their churches. Afterwards, over that Sunday night and
the following day, I thought about those experiences and the need and
the people I met and their children. And I cried.
I called up the person at the diocese here that works so very hard and
puts these on. She was a Catholic nun for a time and I deeply respect
her, from years of talking with her. She didn't deserve it; she's
done so much personally; but I laid into her, angrily. I used the
Catholic scriptural descriptions, citing from the sermon on the mount
like a priest might, with energy and verve, telling her that there is
NO EXCUSE -- none at all -- for people like this. If anything, their
faith (and I was raised Catholic, salt and pepper pants and white
shirt to school, etc., but it is no longer mine) talks about those who
are the least among them; to not to be like the hypocrites who make
public their charities; that what they do for their own is no
different than the gentiles, so it should be done for all and not just
Catholics; etc., etc. She and I spoke for hours. I was so angry and
where these parents and their children were, yet they were part of
those who seem like just hypocrites in their faith to me.
I will be continuing these discussions with others further up the
chain of administration in the Catholic Church as well as other
churches, too. This doesn't end, to be true. But when I see billions
of dollars flowing into capital investments, so little for operation
by comparison, and those at the very bottom, the least able to care
for themselves, having so little and being literally unable to leave
their own homes, it wears on me. Because I know the situation deeply.
It is burnished into my soul with long, personal experience, too.
These are my family I see out there, people I know bonded by common
experience that few understand well, alone pretty much and without
help from those who pretend their religion and little else besides.
The sermon is clear. It's message is clear. Matthew puts it, "By
their fruits ye shall know them." Yet where are these fruits, those
one would expect from a healthy faith and an adherence to the sermon?
Sorry to vent, Mike. But I see the churches going up all over the
place here. I see the huge investments. I read the reports. I see
how much goes into providing for the "least among you" and how much
goes into resources for the able and capable.
It's not just the churches. I don't mean to poke only at them. They
are just showing the same symptoms as found in the rest of society.
The difference is that Christians actually _have_ a core creed, in
fact the very inner most and deepest part of it all out of which all
the rest flows, that speaks to this issue. And instead I see families
in need within the churches, let alone outside them, in terrible pain
and difficulty.
I suppose secular society can spout excuses. They don't have a core
philosophy about the meek and poor and a failure here isn't
necessarily hypocrisy. But what excuse, Christians??? I find none.
I know that you also have your own experiences here and they speak to
you as loudly as mine do for me. You and I see a side of this many
don't. I volunteer, I work, I care, and I share what I have with
others. And I'm an atheist, more or less. The hypocrisy just bugs
me, at times.
Jon
E
Eeyore
Guest
John Larkin wrote:
publicity which in turn 'gets their voice heard'.
Ever heard of demonstrations ?
Graham
For those who feel they don't have a voice it could be a method of getting
publicity which in turn 'gets their voice heard'.
Ever heard of demonstrations ?
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
T Wake wrote:
Graham
You could blame the US gun culture too.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
Graham
Who said I believed in Satan ?
Graham
U
unsettled
Guest
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
You'll eventually rethink this.
M
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your daughter, but at least you are able to
care for her. I know that its not easy to take care of someone, and work
full time. At times I have had to provide care for my parents. My
mother, while she was dying of cancer, and several times for my dad
after major surgery where he couldn't even go to the bathroom without
help.
I have never been on a retreat, but I've heard good things about
them.
Hypocrites are among the lowest of the low on this world.
Don't forget that there are those who only claim to be Christian, but
are only there to see what they can take. You have to keep your eyes
open, as well as your heart. The church I attended in ohio needed a
central air conditioning system. It never had one that was able to cool
the whole building properly. They saved till they could afford the
equipment, then the pastor and a couple members (all in their 60's or
older) installed everything, saving about 70% of the costs. they never
bought anything on credit, and used things till they weren't worth
fixing, yet they had a nice, clean building they could take pride in.
There are a few "Mega Churches" (AKA The Wal-Marts of religion) in
Central Florida, but over all its not like that here. A few churches
have large buildings, but they have enough members they fill almost
every seat. Some run thrift stores to raise money that goes to help
people. Several are involved in the local Homeless Council that tries
to help people who want to, to get back into mainstream society. They
provide food, medicine and other services to help them get their act
back together. But, as you well know, some people don't want to be
helped. There were over 2000 homeless Veterans living in the Ocala
National Forest (That they could find), a lot of whom do not want help.
A lot of them were mental patients who were put out on the streets by
Ronald Reagan to "Save money".
If a church is too big to know everyone by name, I don't even want to
visit it. The small church I belong to is in financial trouble after
trying to help too many people from New Orleans, after Katrina. We are
struggling, but we do still have our faith. The building is over 40
years old, plain and built out of concrete blocks, but its all we need,
for now. We want to get back on our feet and build a new building that
is strong enough to be used as a hurricane shelter, and have facilities
to feed and house people after a disaster. It will be another concrete
building, no fancy glass roof or $50,000 sound system. It will have to
wait, but we know where we have to go.
True Christians will give you the shirt off their backs, feed you and
help you get back on your feet. the "Religious" won't do anything but
talk. There is a huge difference between faith and religion.
I am 100% disabled, yet I spend my time repairing electronics to give
away to those who need, but can not pay. I am teaching one young man
basic electronics and computer repair. He has ADHD, but he CAN learn and
wants to.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
I'm sorry to hear about your daughter, but at least you are able to
care for her. I know that its not easy to take care of someone, and work
full time. At times I have had to provide care for my parents. My
mother, while she was dying of cancer, and several times for my dad
after major surgery where he couldn't even go to the bathroom without
help.
I have never been on a retreat, but I've heard good things about
them.
Hypocrites are among the lowest of the low on this world.
Don't forget that there are those who only claim to be Christian, but
are only there to see what they can take. You have to keep your eyes
open, as well as your heart. The church I attended in ohio needed a
central air conditioning system. It never had one that was able to cool
the whole building properly. They saved till they could afford the
equipment, then the pastor and a couple members (all in their 60's or
older) installed everything, saving about 70% of the costs. they never
bought anything on credit, and used things till they weren't worth
fixing, yet they had a nice, clean building they could take pride in.
There are a few "Mega Churches" (AKA The Wal-Marts of religion) in
Central Florida, but over all its not like that here. A few churches
have large buildings, but they have enough members they fill almost
every seat. Some run thrift stores to raise money that goes to help
people. Several are involved in the local Homeless Council that tries
to help people who want to, to get back into mainstream society. They
provide food, medicine and other services to help them get their act
back together. But, as you well know, some people don't want to be
helped. There were over 2000 homeless Veterans living in the Ocala
National Forest (That they could find), a lot of whom do not want help.
A lot of them were mental patients who were put out on the streets by
Ronald Reagan to "Save money".
If a church is too big to know everyone by name, I don't even want to
visit it. The small church I belong to is in financial trouble after
trying to help too many people from New Orleans, after Katrina. We are
struggling, but we do still have our faith. The building is over 40
years old, plain and built out of concrete blocks, but its all we need,
for now. We want to get back on our feet and build a new building that
is strong enough to be used as a hurricane shelter, and have facilities
to feed and house people after a disaster. It will be another concrete
building, no fancy glass roof or $50,000 sound system. It will have to
wait, but we know where we have to go.
True Christians will give you the shirt off their backs, feed you and
help you get back on your feet. the "Religious" won't do anything but
talk. There is a huge difference between faith and religion.
I am 100% disabled, yet I spend my time repairing electronics to give
away to those who need, but can not pay. I am teaching one young man
basic electronics and computer repair. He has ADHD, but he CAN learn and
wants to.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
M
MooseFET
Guest
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
US would have counted for a great deal on this subject. What they call
themselves doesn't matter at all. It is what others consider them that
matters. If they are considered criminals they will be arrested if
they are considered freedom fighters they will get aid.
other countries have a law like this too. It makes it a crime to be a
member of an on going criminal enterprise. Also most countries have
conspiracy laws that don't require the police to wait for the crime to
be commited. There are lots of legal tools that can be used without
calling it "a war". For that matter calling it "a war" doesn't really
add any new tools.
[....]
[....]
I disagree. At least up until the last several years, the word of the
US would have counted for a great deal on this subject. What they call
themselves doesn't matter at all. It is what others consider them that
matters. If they are considered criminals they will be arrested if
they are considered freedom fighters they will get aid.
In the US there is a law called the RICO statute. I assume that most
other countries have a law like this too. It makes it a crime to be a
member of an on going criminal enterprise. Also most countries have
conspiracy laws that don't require the police to wait for the crime to
be commited. There are lots of legal tools that can be used without
calling it "a war". For that matter calling it "a war" doesn't really
add any new tools.
[....]
.... and then a operation to repair the damage the second ones caused.
M
MooseFET
Guest
T Wake wrote:
Also: the "jawbone of an ass" was the first recorded republican
filibuster.
Cain slew Abel. That's what caused it all.
Also: the "jawbone of an ass" was the first recorded republican
filibuster.
Guest
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:Qrqdndr70MFGuajYRVnysA@pipex.net...
Eric Lucas
news:Qrqdndr70MFGuajYRVnysA@pipex.net...
There's a difference between "moral" and "moralistic".
Eric Lucas
Guest
In article <1161136120.854490.3840@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "MooseFET" <kensmith@rahul.net> writes:
you call them.
requirement which is fine for dealing with individuals and small
groups, but cannot be satisfied when dealing with global ideological
movement.
It appears to me that you believe that it is not a war unless you call
it so. Would be nice, but it ain't so.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
they'll not get arrested, in fact they'll get aid, regardless of what
you call them.
You assume a lot.
But they require to have evidence that'll stand in court, a
requirement which is fine for dealing with individuals and small
groups, but cannot be satisfied when dealing with global ideological
movement.
It appears to me that you believe that it is not a war unless you call
it so. Would be nice, but it ain't so.
[....]
Obesity has won. They have taken over. They sell you hambergers and
then little pills to prevent the hambergers from having their natural
effect.
Sure. then we'll get the little pills to counteract the effects of
the first little pills, etc.
... and then a operation to repair the damage the second ones caused.
Lots of jobs, all around
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
E
Eeyore
Guest
David Bostwick wrote:
Graham
Mad presumably.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
David Bostwick wrote:
Graham
What left wing fundamentalists ?
Or deranged / psychotic or even simply misled / confused perhaps.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
You're barking mad.
Graham
You think religious extremism is the result of fear ?
You're barking mad.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Graham
I think you mean *look at that*. So why not ?
Graham
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:15:22 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:
which is why I can charge so much for it. Inventing new things
requires exploring a lot of silly possibilities, lots of dead ends,
questioning established rules and rules of thumb. Of course you can
generate 99.9999% stupid ideas, but people who do generate useful
ideas know how to calibrate the craziness. Engineers tend to be rigid,
to want to follow rules and turn away from things that make them
uncomfortable; I relish novelty and absurdities, and fairly often they
turn out to be not so absurd at all, and then we put them on PC boards
and sell them for 10 times what they cost to make.
narrow-minede and dogmatic people are about evolution, how firmly they
cling to the dumb-blueprint, random mutstion model of DNA. I know
that, as evolution is eventually understood, all sorts of amazing and
wonderful machanisms will be discovered. So many people seem to have a
vested interest in dullness... I guess they're most comfortable with
it.
speculations, but they aren't biologists either. My son-in-law, who is
a PhD engineer, thinks my DNA speculations are absurd. My daughter,
who is a PhD biologist, doesn't.
Read "The Trouble With Physics", by Lee Smolin, especially the last
few chapters. He talks about the power of groupthink, the sociology of
science, and the difference between craftsmen and seers.
It's surprising to me, in this newsgroup, how hard it is to get people
to brainstorm, to riff on ideas. Rigidity rules.
John
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:
I design electronics. Most of it is new, never-done-before stuff,
which is why I can charge so much for it. Inventing new things
requires exploring a lot of silly possibilities, lots of dead ends,
questioning established rules and rules of thumb. Of course you can
generate 99.9999% stupid ideas, but people who do generate useful
ideas know how to calibrate the craziness. Engineers tend to be rigid,
to want to follow rules and turn away from things that make them
uncomfortable; I relish novelty and absurdities, and fairly often they
turn out to be not so absurd at all, and then we put them on PC boards
and sell them for 10 times what they cost to make.
Take them however you like. Actually, I'm surprised by how
narrow-minede and dogmatic people are about evolution, how firmly they
cling to the dumb-blueprint, random mutstion model of DNA. I know
that, as evolution is eventually understood, all sorts of amazing and
wonderful machanisms will be discovered. So many people seem to have a
vested interest in dullness... I guess they're most comfortable with
it.
I speculate for fun, but I'm not a biologist. People here reject my
speculations, but they aren't biologists either. My son-in-law, who is
a PhD engineer, thinks my DNA speculations are absurd. My daughter,
who is a PhD biologist, doesn't.
Read "The Trouble With Physics", by Lee Smolin, especially the last
few chapters. He talks about the power of groupthink, the sociology of
science, and the difference between craftsmen and seers.
It's surprising to me, in this newsgroup, how hard it is to get people
to brainstorm, to riff on ideas. Rigidity rules.
John
Guest
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:7c6dncRVMMO6tajYRVnyiQ@pipex.net...
the wrong basket into which to put their eggs, so to speak. Pryce is the
fourth-highest ranking woman in the House for a good reason--she appears to
be straightforward, honest and professional, and her ads reflect that.
Kilroy's ads have been nothing but mudslinging from the beginning.
The race I desparately hope falls to the Democrats is Sherrod Brown vs. Mike
DeWine. DeWine is one of the sleaziest politicians left standing in Ohio
(after the whole Ney/Noe/Abramoff flap), who is used to riding into office
on his "golly-gee-whiz" boyish charm and playing up his lisp in exactly the
same way Bush does. DeWine's campaign has been *entirely* 100 % negative,
mostly fear-mongering, and Brown comes across as someone who thinks about
the issues, and doesn't just shoot from the hip. His ads have been by and
large positive and provide a vision for improvement.
It also appears (thankfully) that Blackwell is likely to lose to Strickland.
Aside from Blackwell's fiscal idiocies, I have a *huge* moral problem with
Blackwell being rewarded for his very poor handling of the conflict of
interest (and widespread demonstrable voting irregularities) in the 2004
election...up to and including the fact that he has had an extended battle
in the Ohio Supreme Court to destroy all documents from the 2004 election,
so that no evidence of these irregularities could come to light.
Thankfully, the Supreme Court didn't let him.
Eric Lucas
news:7c6dncRVMMO6tajYRVnyiQ@pipex.net...
I've been watching this race closely for quite a while. I think Kilroy was
the wrong basket into which to put their eggs, so to speak. Pryce is the
fourth-highest ranking woman in the House for a good reason--she appears to
be straightforward, honest and professional, and her ads reflect that.
Kilroy's ads have been nothing but mudslinging from the beginning.
She's not advertised on TV, so I don't really know much about her campaign.
The race I desparately hope falls to the Democrats is Sherrod Brown vs. Mike
DeWine. DeWine is one of the sleaziest politicians left standing in Ohio
(after the whole Ney/Noe/Abramoff flap), who is used to riding into office
on his "golly-gee-whiz" boyish charm and playing up his lisp in exactly the
same way Bush does. DeWine's campaign has been *entirely* 100 % negative,
mostly fear-mongering, and Brown comes across as someone who thinks about
the issues, and doesn't just shoot from the hip. His ads have been by and
large positive and provide a vision for improvement.
It also appears (thankfully) that Blackwell is likely to lose to Strickland.
Aside from Blackwell's fiscal idiocies, I have a *huge* moral problem with
Blackwell being rewarded for his very poor handling of the conflict of
interest (and widespread demonstrable voting irregularities) in the 2004
election...up to and including the fact that he has had an extended battle
in the Ohio Supreme Court to destroy all documents from the 2004 election,
so that no evidence of these irregularities could come to light.
Thankfully, the Supreme Court didn't let him.
Eric Lucas
Guest
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:2aydnQ5hfotjtKjYRVnytw@pipex.net...
and all, it is a bit surprising. However, I guess I don't know how I would
have reacted if an angry mob was attacking me in that situation. I was
really too young to comprehend the situation at that time, but I understand
that there were a lot of conflicts on compuses around the country between
ROTC and non-ROTC students, and as many of the National Guard were probably
ROTC graduates, the shootings could have been a spillover of that emotional
conflict.
slowly sometimes--in 2/4/6 year chunks, usually. A true democracy might be
more responsive, but it's also *completely* impractical on the scale of
anything more than a few hundred people.
The thing that I find more insidious, and thus far more offensive, is the
type of "crowd control" used at politicians' public appearances these days.
Bush has been in the habit, since 2000, of having any possible protesters
banished from his appearances, and either falsely imprisoned (for example,
for wearing a T-shirt with an anti-Bush slogan) or bused to so-called "Free
Speech Zones" (how's that for a 1984-type euphemism) outside of town in
remote areas where they're guaranteed not to be heard by more than a few
people. That sort of quashing of debate and opposing opinions makes my
spine curl.
non-lethal crowd control means. Accidents still happen, but I think they're
much less likely.
Eric Lucas
news:2aydnQ5hfotjtKjYRVnytw@pipex.net...
Especially considering that they were in full riot gear, with body shields
and all, it is a bit surprising. However, I guess I don't know how I would
have reacted if an angry mob was attacking me in that situation. I was
really too young to comprehend the situation at that time, but I understand
that there were a lot of conflicts on compuses around the country between
ROTC and non-ROTC students, and as many of the National Guard were probably
ROTC graduates, the shootings could have been a spillover of that emotional
conflict.
The wheels of the US version of a representative democracy do indeed turn
slowly sometimes--in 2/4/6 year chunks, usually. A true democracy might be
more responsive, but it's also *completely* impractical on the scale of
anything more than a few hundred people.
The thing that I find more insidious, and thus far more offensive, is the
type of "crowd control" used at politicians' public appearances these days.
Bush has been in the habit, since 2000, of having any possible protesters
banished from his appearances, and either falsely imprisoned (for example,
for wearing a T-shirt with an anti-Bush slogan) or bused to so-called "Free
Speech Zones" (how's that for a 1984-type euphemism) outside of town in
remote areas where they're guaranteed not to be heard by more than a few
people. That sort of quashing of debate and opposing opinions makes my
spine curl.
In the fullness of time, the police have developed and begun using more
non-lethal crowd control means. Accidents still happen, but I think they're
much less likely.
Eric Lucas
Guest
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote in message
news:yKCdnU0EBp8At6jYRVnyrA@pipex.net...
US, perhaps through a few decades of unparalleled peace and prosperity.
People are so insistent on having an existence with as close to a zero
chance of dying as possible, that doing something like that, which carries
some risk of dying, is unthinkable.
Eric Lucas
news:yKCdnU0EBp8At6jYRVnyrA@pipex.net...
I think that sort of dedication to principles has become very rare in the
US, perhaps through a few decades of unparalleled peace and prosperity.
People are so insistent on having an existence with as close to a zero
chance of dying as possible, that doing something like that, which carries
some risk of dying, is unthinkable.
Eric Lucas