Isolated, regulated, toroidal step down transformer AC power

[Mark]

The history of this thread simply does not tally with your assessment.

I posed, what I thought was, a perfectly simple request for information and
made no claim about my knowledge of electronics. I posed it here, simply
because I was unable to Google a design myself.

Nearly all respondents reacted in an abusive manner to my request for an
AC/AC power supply design. Phil was especially abusive and successively
claimed:

a) That I did not have an application which required 9VAC input. Re:

Me> Yes, I really do need 9 VAC for my application.

Phil> ** BOLLOCKS you do !!

It isn't clear to me how he could be so adamant about my application's input
voltage, since I had quite patently NOT included any information about the
application in my original request. I can only surmise that he either:

i) Wrongly concluded that I meant 9VDC and was being defensive about it.
ii) Wrongly concluded that 9VAC applications do not exist. (and that was why
I could not have one).

But whichever it may be, he was WRONG on both counts and he was being
extremely offensive to me, WHILST being WRONG. Apparently he is of the
persuasion that

b) That my explanation for needing 9VAC was physically impossible. Re:

Me > Yes, it is a pair of half-wave rectifiers which DOUBLE the voltage. 9
VAC
Me > in and +/-15 VDC out AFTER regulation.

Phil> ** Totally impossible bollocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally impossible only has one meaning and his reaction is consistent with
the first presumption (i) above, IE. he believed that 9VAC applications DO
NOT EXIST.

c) I didn't think it was possible for him to make his position MORE
implausible, but in his latest effort to recover lost credibility, he does
just that.

Me> Apparently (because I had to look it up) Charge Pump devices work by
Me> electronically switching the polarity of the capacitors. IE "the
capacitor
Me> is disconnected from the original charging voltage and reconnected with
Me> its negative terminal to the original positive charging voltage".

Phil> ** Exactly what the diodes do when the AC polarity changes.

It seems totally incongruent with this group's behaviour that he can make
such STATEMENTS and totally escape any criticism. Do I really have to
explain why he is WRONG again? Go on, make me:

I certainly don't want to risk being labelled "Arrogant" again.

BLAHHHHH, HA HA HA!!!

"Two Bob" <dept9@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:460cf3d5_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

You ascribed to me the quality of idiocy. You are, after all, a
'decider'.

I retorted with a jest. After all, I do FEEL like and idiot for asking
for help at 'aus.electronics'.

I feel like an idiot, not because I put the question in the wrong forum
OR because the expertise isn't available here to solve it, but BECAUSE I
should have known better what you and your fellow 'Phil-o-philes' would
EXPECT me to 'put up with' in order to get it. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

The only smart thing you have done is post to this forum with your
problem. Where you have proven you are an idiot is by your attitude. You
can come along here for a number of reasons. For information, for
enlightenment, for the friendly banter, or as in your case, to be ripped
to shreds because of your arrogance.

You have admitted a number of times your lack of electronic knowledge.
Then you argue black is white when anyone tries to point you to the right
path. If you know the answer to your question, then piss off. If you dont,
then listen to those who are willing to help you.



"Two Bob" <dept9@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:460b8488_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
So your presumption may be that asking for help at 'aus.electronics' is
an idiotic thing to do? Can't really disagree with you there.

Show me where I stated that.
I stated that YOU were an idiot.
Do you go to the doctor and say that you feel crook and leave it up to
him to fix you???? Or, do you answer his questions regarding the
symptoms.

I am all too aware of the inherent perils involved in asking for help
on any newsgroup inhabited by the likes of Phil and his
'Phil-o-philes'.

No perils involved. Some jump on idiots straight away, while other take
a little longer.

That reason alone is enough to make me cautious of providing any more
information than I need to. My perception of Phil is that the more
information you give him to analize (sic), the deeper your own exposure
to his vile hatred of (just about) everybody on the planet.

"Two Bob" <dept9@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:460a1756_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
I am not compelled to explain anything more than what I already have
and what I have explained is more than sufficient for my purpose.

YOU are the idiot asking for help here! If you cant give more info, I
doubt you will get more help.

 

[rebel]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:37:58 +1000, "Mark" <markilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

(snip)

d) I don't need an UPS "all of a sudden". It's been discussed for weeks.

Unfortunately, you don't *need* a UPS to solve your problem. What you DO need
to do - rather than jump to a ?solution - is address the cause of the problem,
which from your many descriptions in this saga\\\\thread would certainly appear
to be the DC rail regulators and possibly their regulating headroom.

While this has been pointed out to you by several posters (self included) in
both polite and well-reasoned response as well as somewhat less conciliatory
terms, you appear hell-bent on finding a regulated AC source solution.

It is a common - and bloody annoying - habit of many people to jump to a
"solution" before they actually understand the problem. This is the root cause
of your determination, and the inclination of most responders to adopt an
inflammatory posture.

If you don't want to actually get to the bottom of your problem, don't ask for
help in an area where help isn't helpful (your well-regulated AC source).

 

[Mark]

"rebel" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2i5s13db9dhh2689p9h1i2llngeju9n8kr@4ax.com...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:37:58 +1000, "Mark" <markilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

(snip)

d) I don't need an UPS "all of a sudden". It's been discussed for weeks.

Unfortunately, you don't *need* a UPS to solve your problem. What you DO
need
to do - rather than jump to a ?solution - is address the cause of the
problem,
which from your many descriptions in this saga\\\\thread would certainly
appear
to be the DC rail regulators and possibly their regulating headroom.

While this has been pointed out to you by several posters (self included)
in
both polite and well-reasoned response as well as somewhat less
conciliatory
terms, you appear hell-bent on finding a regulated AC source solution.

It is a common - and bloody annoying - habit of many people to jump to a
"solution" before they actually understand the problem. This is the root
cause
of your determination, and the inclination of most responders to adopt an
inflammatory posture.

If you don't want to actually get to the bottom of your problem, don't ask
for
help in an area where help isn't helpful (your well-regulated AC source).

It was suggested TO me that I try an UPS as a TRIAL solution.

The observed clipping was PERCEIVED by me to be due to the occasional
over-voltage domestic supply.

I already HAD an UPS in another room, so the cost (to me) of suggested trial
solution is; NIL.

I adopted the suggested trial solution SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE many had indeed
suggested that the problem WAS NOT likely to be caused by the over-voltage
domestic supply.

Common scientific method is to try and DISPROVE a theory. A NEGATIVE result
of a TRIAL procedure is NOT a failed experiment. It serves its purpose.

If you feel the trial is a waste of YOUR time, then I suggest you take the
matter up with those who SUGGESTED it. I don't think it is in my interests
to do so.

If a regulated AC source does happen to work, then I don't give much of a
damn what the cause may be. I don't have any intrinsic interest in
electronics. My only interest is in solving the immediate problem.
Contingency factors mean very little to me.

I'd be very happy to walk away with a solution without EVER knowing the
cause or understanding the problem. I simply don't care. Perhaps you find
this attitude offensive but I consider myself to be a consumer of electronic
devices, not a technician. I only do what I do because I HAVE TO DO IT.

I can believe that many (some?) contributors here DO in fact have an
inflammatory posture towards the consumers of electronics. That is EXACTLY
why they may come here. It gives them the opportunity to humiliate a class
of person that they feel antagonistic toward. A class of person that might
have a lien over their INCOME in real life. A class of person that they feel
superior too.

It doesn't wash with me.

If those same people took a look outside their windows for just ONE SECOND
they would see a world outside that does not value people based solely on
their knowledge of electronics or the particular topology of their messages.

People who BEHAVE as if they do are INTERACTING with others based on a FALSE
premise.

 

[Mark]

Input

ACVi 11.1~11.2 (unloaded)
ACVi 10.3~10.4 (loaded)

7805

DCVi 12.38~12.44
DCVo 5.02

7815

DCVi 26.1~26.2
DCVo 15.0

7819

DCVi -26.0~-26.4
DCVo -15.0

Dodo has been unavailable since Saturday Morning. Their dial-up lines are
constantly engaged. I dialled about 30 times to get this line. As soon as I
loose this line (about 2 hours) I'll be back in the same boat until Monday.

"swanny" <blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote in message
news:r3%Sh.12129$M.83@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Mark wrote:

Will the input to my regulators always be above 17VDC for all load
conditions of my application? Yes, I believe so. Or at least close to
that
mark.

I haven't been able to measure the input as yet. I go into town this
Friday
to take my son in to hospital for his weekly physio session, I'll try to
buy
a small set of alligator clips for my DMM from Dickie Smiths at that
time.
The chances of shorting across any two of the Regs pins (with the power
ON)
whilst probing amongst numerous obstacles is perilous and I won't do it
without the clips.

OK. Once you have done that the picture will be clearer. See if you can
measure
the input to the regulators both at low or no load and then at your
maximum
anticipated load.

 

[Mark]

come and get it.

"Bob Parker" <bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:460de354$0$7445$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

On 31/03/2007 09:30 jasen wrote:

How do people with city power run this device?

Have you tried using an online UPS, or active line conditioner, that has
sine-wave output, (this won't be cheap) and then connect the ordinary
powersupply.

Bye.
Jasen

He wants everyone to keep playing his infantile guessing game so he can
remain the centre of attention.
How many commercially manufactured mains-powered electronic devices are
critically sensitive to normal mains voltage variations, requiring precise
regulation of the input voltage? About none that I know of. Even UPSs have
to see a pretty big variation before they cut in.
He's had this problem since he went through this audiophile thing,
ripped out most of the electrolytic caps and replaced them with audiophile
ones. Remember his comment about us being too dull to ask him if he'd made
any bad solder joints?
He's made a pig's breakfast of what was a normally functioning CD
player or whatever it is, and now wants some loony solution to mask a
fault *he* caused.
And no Mark, we're not going to keep trying to guess what it is. My
suspicion is that the reason you don't want to tell is because it's some
audiophile thing you know Phil will laugh his head off about, and you're
scared of Phil from your experience in the aus.hi-fi newsgroup.
Here endeth today's sermon....

 

[jasen]

On 2007-04-15, Mark <marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

7805
DCVi 12.38~12.44

7815
DCVi 26.1~26.2

7819

7915 ???

DCVi -26.0~-26.4

they all look good, plenty of headroom etc...


how much ripple is there on those


build one of these:

gnd ----||----+--[1K]-------+-> to +ve test point
1000uF | |
| .-[100K]-+
| | |
+-||-+-+-->|--+
|
10uF |
`-------> to meter

this'll give a voltage about 0.6V above the low point of the cycle
for testing the 7915 input reverse the diode.

 

[Lionel]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 14:28:02 +1000, Bob Parker
<bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote:

On 31/03/2007 09:30 jasen wrote:

How do people with city power run this device?

Have you tried using an online UPS, or active line conditioner, that has
sine-wave output, (this won't be cheap) and then connect the ordinary
powersupply.

Bye.
Jasen

He wants everyone to keep playing his infantile guessing game so he
can remain the centre of attention.
How many commercially manufactured mains-powered electronic devices
are critically sensitive to normal mains voltage variations, requiring
precise regulation of the input voltage? About none that I know of. Even
UPSs have to see a pretty big variation before they cut in.
He's had this problem since he went through this audiophile thing,
ripped out most of the electrolytic caps and replaced them with
audiophile ones. Remember his comment about us being too dull to ask him
if he'd made any bad solder joints?
He's made a pig's breakfast of what was a normally functioning CD
player or whatever it is, and now wants some loony solution to mask a
fault *he* caused.

Bingo! - That explains his weird posts perfectly.

And no Mark, we're not going to keep trying to guess what it is. My
suspicion is that the reason you don't want to tell is because it's some
audiophile thing you know Phil will laugh his head off about, and you're
scared of Phil from your experience in the aus.hi-fi newsgroup.
Here endeth today's sermon....

ITYM: 'audiophool', not 'audiophile'. ;^)

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Lionel]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:42:21 +1000, "Mark"
<marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Oh, we have Albert fucking Einstein here for sure. Read the thread.

Is true that you're some audiophool nutbar who screwed up his gizmo by
replacing all the standard electrolytic caps with audiophool caps?

"Lionel" <usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote in message
news:de1p13lecnk8l752uem788dsh39f9tkmlb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:52:39 +1000, Lionel <usenet@imagenoir.com
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:29:08 +1000, "Mark"
marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

I'd disagree with it, only because what you speak isn't true.

Here's one that sold on EBay for only $51.00, a few minutes ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LIEBERT-UPS-GXT700-Mini-Tower_W0QQitemZ230113036855

If you go to http://gxtwebdemo.liebert.com/ you can see from the
simulation
of the GXT series UPS that it regulates, rectifies and inverts the output
24/7. The Bypass is only engaged during battery failure or replacement.

Yup, I'd say that qualifies. Online and near perfect sine wave output.

I would have bid but I don't feel like a drive up to Sydney to get it.

With a bit of patience I'll pick one up for even less. Fact.

Wonderful! - But how does that help you get your regulated 9VAC
output?

Oh, & in case it isn't totally obvious to you, it's not a toroidal
transformer either, although there may well be one its guts. ;^)

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Lionel]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:37:58 +1000, "Mark"
<marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

a) No electronics knowledge whatsoever.

Only the ability to mechanically de-solder parts and the ability to use
Google to identify the harvested parts.

The electronic parts can be reused within existing applications or sold on
EBay. Lots of people do the harvest/resell trade, not just with UPS and not
just on EBay.

<boggle>
There are people dumb enough to buy parts desoldered from scrap
equipment by people who know nothing about electronics?
Now, /that/ is a scary thought.

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mark]

7915, yes. How do I read the character based schematic?

or just email me a graphic to my email address.

"jasen" <jasen@free.net.nz> wrote in message
news:evt04d$e9v$1@jasen.is-a-geek.org...

On 2007-04-15, Mark <marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

7805
DCVi 12.38~12.44

7815
DCVi 26.1~26.2


7819

7915 ???

DCVi -26.0~-26.4


they all look good, plenty of headroom etc...


how much ripple is there on those


build one of these:

gnd ----||----+--[1K]-------+-> to +ve test point
1000uF | |
| .-[100K]-+
| | |
+-||-+-+-->|--+
|
10uF |
`-------> to meter

this'll give a voltage about 0.6V above the low point of the cycle
for testing the 7915 input reverse the diode.

 

[Mark]

<boggle>

That there are people in here who's lives are so unrewarding that they
compensate for it by dedicating their time & efforts in search of the
elusive 'Net-kudos'.

Have a look around EBay. You pay your money and you take your chances.

"Lionel" <usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote in message
news:evumde$35q$4@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:37:58 +1000, "Mark"
marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

a) No electronics knowledge whatsoever.

Only the ability to mechanically de-solder parts and the ability to use
Google to identify the harvested parts.

The electronic parts can be reused within existing applications or sold on
EBay. Lots of people do the harvest/resell trade, not just with UPS and
not
just on EBay.

boggle
There are people dumb enough to buy parts desoldered from scrap
equipment by people who know nothing about electronics?
Now, /that/ is a scary thought.

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Mark]

No.

"Lionel" <usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote in message
news:evum9l$35q$3@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:42:21 +1000, "Mark"
marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

Oh, we have Albert fucking Einstein here for sure. Read the thread.

Is true that you're some audiophool nutbar who screwed up his gizmo by
replacing all the standard electrolytic caps with audiophool caps?



"Lionel" <usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote in message
news:de1p13lecnk8l752uem788dsh39f9tkmlb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:52:39 +1000, Lionel <usenet@imagenoir.com
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:29:08 +1000, "Mark"
marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

I'd disagree with it, only because what you speak isn't true.

Here's one that sold on EBay for only $51.00, a few minutes ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LIEBERT-UPS-GXT700-Mini-Tower_W0QQitemZ230113036855

If you go to http://gxtwebdemo.liebert.com/ you can see from the
simulation
of the GXT series UPS that it regulates, rectifies and inverts the
output
24/7. The Bypass is only engaged during battery failure or
replacement.

Yup, I'd say that qualifies. Online and near perfect sine wave output.

I would have bid but I don't feel like a drive up to Sydney to get it.

With a bit of patience I'll pick one up for even less. Fact.

Wonderful! - But how does that help you get your regulated 9VAC
output?

Oh, & in case it isn't totally obvious to you, it's not a toroidal
transformer either, although there may well be one its guts. ;^)

--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------


--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[jasen]

On 2007-04-18, Mark <marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote:

7915, yes. How do I read the character based schematic?

use a fixed pitch font.
pasting it into notepad works well on ms-windows.
or in google groups "view source" (found under options)

it's possible I let some tabs creep into it which mangled it,
here it is corrected.

build one of these:

gnd ----||----+--[1K]-------+-> to +ve test point
1000uF | |
| .-[100K]-+
| | |
+-||-+-+-->|--+
10uF |
`-------> to meter

this'll give a voltage about 0.6V above the low point of the cycle
for testing the 7915 input reverse the diode.

of course an oscilloscope is the best way to characterise the ripple,
but the above filter give a reasonable indication if used with a
high-impedance voltmeter (most DMMs)

Bye.
Jasen

 

[APR]

"Mark" <marknospampleaseilsley@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:460ab03f$0$24877$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...

Mark, several of the people who are answering you here are capable of eating
the vast majority of electronics repairers for breakfast when it comes to
design. All of the people of relevance on this group are capable of
designing half wave rectified voltage doubling designs in their sleep. Why
the big secrecy with respect to your application? You really are going on
like a wanker............

 

[Bob Parker]

On 11/04/2007 22:58 Mark wrote:

Pussy 'Sponge-Bob' prancing about the feet of 'Das Führer' in the kingdom of
'Phil-O-phile' mewing "But where is the sanity?".

Idiot troll.