HV dc/dc...

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 4:30:14 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.
I was going to say I used a LTC3803 design I copied from you...
or someone else here.

George H.
--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
The y caps is not just caring about approval. That is personal safety, only cap approved for bridging mains and SELV

Cheers

Klaus
 
The y caps is not just caring about approval. That is personal safety, only cap approved for bridging mains and SELV

Cheers

Klaus
 
The y caps is not just caring about approval. That is personal safety, only cap approved for bridging mains and SELV

Cheers

Klaus
 
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr
 
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr
 
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com
wrote:

The y caps is not just caring about approval. That is personal safety, only cap approved for bridging mains and SELV

Cheers

Klaus

I buy approved AC line switch/fuse/filter things and connect them to
approved power supplies, with aproved wire. Better yet, I use a wall
wart whenever I can, and run my box on DC.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On 7/17/2020 4:30 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.

I think a flyback with a minimal amount of secondary capacitive boost is
the right choice here, even if isolation weren\'t required.

For that voltage step-up ratio with a boost and CW you can either put
most of the step up into the boost, but then the small duty cycle
increases stress and losses on the switch, or into the multiplier, which
compromises your ability to drive pulsed currents without large caps,
which again craps on your efficiency due to esr.
 
On 7/17/2020 4:30 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.

I think a flyback with a minimal amount of secondary capacitive boost is
the right choice here, even if isolation weren\'t required.

For that voltage step-up ratio with a boost and CW you can either put
most of the step up into the boost, but then the small duty cycle
increases stress and losses on the switch, or into the multiplier, which
compromises your ability to drive pulsed currents without large caps,
which again craps on your efficiency due to esr.
 
On 7/17/2020 4:30 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.

I made a EL panel driver good for a couple watts using a similar
topology it works very well, 12V to about ~150 V DC into an HV809.

<https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/HV809>

Didn\'t need isolation and the current draw is approximately constant so
the dumbshit resistor + zener-thing off the secondary works well enough
for feedback.
 
On 7/17/2020 5:04 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/17/2020 4:30 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7,
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string
of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.





I made a EL panel driver good for a couple watts using a similar
topology it works very well, 12V to about ~150 V DC into an HV809.

https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/HV809

It could probably go lower than that I expect the flyback controller IC
could be boostrap off the HV809\'s regulated output pin with some thought.
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com
wrote:

The y caps is not just caring about approval. That is personal safety, only cap approved for bridging mains and SELV

Cheers

Klaus

I buy approved AC line switch/fuse/filter things and connect them to
approved power supplies, with aproved wire. Better yet, I use a wall
wart whenever I can, and run my box on DC.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 4:30:14 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.
I was going to say I used a LTC3803 design I copied from you...
or someone else here.

George H.

It\'s a wonderful little part. It just works, and the slope
compensation is magical.

I can probably peak rectify the fet drain voltage, to make the
feedback into the 3803. That will sorta regulate all the +200 things.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 4:30:14 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.
I was going to say I used a LTC3803 design I copied from you...
or someone else here.

George H.

It\'s a wonderful little part. It just works, and the slope
compensation is magical.

I can probably peak rectify the fet drain voltage, to make the
feedback into the 3803. That will sorta regulate all the +200 things.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On 7/17/2020 4:30 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:40:52 -0700 (PDT), \"John Miles, KE5FX\"
jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 9:49:22 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
The application is eight isolated high-voltage pulse outputs. My first
idea was to use grounded drivers and final pulse transformers, but the
volt-seconds get huge so the pulse transformer would be awful. Better
to float the entire output circuit.


How about a C-W multiplier driven from an off-the-shelf boost regulator?
In other words, don\'t use use one diode and capacitor, use a string of them.

-- john, KE5FX

Something like this should work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkbvlwz7b4rb2h/Isol_Pulser_1.jpg?raw=1

Feedback into the LTC chip is interesting.

They want a working demo next week. Gotta warm up the Dremel.

I made a EL panel driver good for a couple watts using a similar
topology it works very well, 12V to about ~150 V DC into an HV809.

<https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/HV809>

Didn\'t need isolation and the current draw is approximately constant so
the dumbshit resistor + zener-thing off the secondary works well enough
for feedback.
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:42:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr

We use a ton of TPIC6595, a simlar part, as our universal relay and
LED driver. But I don\'t need independent control, and there will be no
uP or FPGA or anything. It\'s refreshing to design an all-analog box
once in a while.

I think one big fet can drive all 8 flyback transformers.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:42:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr

We use a ton of TPIC6595, a simlar part, as our universal relay and
LED driver. But I don\'t need independent control, and there will be no
uP or FPGA or anything. It\'s refreshing to design an all-analog box
once in a while.

I think one big fet can drive all 8 flyback transformers.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:42:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr

We use a ton of TPIC6595, a simlar part, as our universal relay and
LED driver. But I don\'t need independent control, and there will be no
uP or FPGA or anything. It\'s refreshing to design an all-analog box
once in a while.

I think one big fet can drive all 8 flyback transformers.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:31:26 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 22:42:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

I need eight isolated 150 volt DC supplies, low current, under 1 mA
average. Commercial dc/dc converters are crazy expensive:

If each channel needs some degree of control, the ultimate low-cost
solution looks like this thing:

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpic6c595.pdf

Strobe G, load whatever you want to SER IN. One of my faves; works like
a charm.

If no control is needed, use 8 MOSFETs fed with the same 50% waveform,
then use each of them as the switch driving a forward/flyback
transformer, whatever you like, and burn excessive power in a zener.

Best regards, Piotr

We use a ton of TPIC6595, a simlar part, as our universal relay and
LED driver. But I don\'t need independent control, and there will be no
uP or FPGA or anything. It\'s refreshing to design an all-analog box
once in a while.

I think one big fet can drive all 8 flyback transformers.

With independent flyback transformers, you\'ll get lousy
cross-regulation, and poor output voltage tolerance, due
to Lp differences (that determine energy transfer).

You\'d be better off going for preregulated voltage inverters,
which are (at least) voltage regulated, to begin with.

Or fit all the flyback secondaries on the same core. ($)

RL
 

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