Frequency standard

"Suzy" <not@valid> wrote in message
news:47c2ffdc$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
:
: "TT" <TTencerNoSpAm@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
: news:13s5g10286ivnda@corp.supernews.com...
: >
: > "Suzy" <not@valid> wrote in message
news:47c290ef$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
: >>
: >> "Clifford Heath" <no@spam.please.net> wrote in message
: >> news:47c25811$0$4437$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
: >>> Suzy wrote:
: >>>> For once, I'll leave his vile foul mouth unedited.
You have a problem
: >>>
: >>> Suzy, just drop it. Once Phil decides a conversation
isn't worth
: >>> pursuing he never returns to reason. Next time a
technical question
: >>> is posed by someone who doesn't set him off, he'll be
quite helpful
: >>> again - he does know a lot of useful stuff and it's
best just to
: >>> drop any subject that gets to this stage. Oh, and BTW,
it isn't
: >>> just women... or even especially women, it can be
anyone equally.
: >>> So don't take it personally, we've all been where you
are.
: >>
: >> Thanks Cliff. Not problem with me, but can't we do
something to help this
: >> poor unhappy bloke? As you say, he can be quite
helpful but he has a
: >> real human interface problem. Worse than I've ever seen
in a lifetime of
: >> working with disadvantaged people with big chips on
their shoulders and
: >> plenty of reasons for having them.
: >>
: >> And Phil, if you are still there, I have never been in
a chat room. You
: >> are assuming there's only one Suzy on the internet. A
bit of a silly
: >> assumption for an intelligent (?) person.
: > Hi Suzy, I see you are at the stage where you thought
you were having and
: > intelligent conversation with Philthy and then he
suddenly flies into one
: > of his fetid rages.
: >
: > I am a bit of an expert on this poor sad excuse for a
person and I will
: > give you quick run down on his life, career etc and you
will better
: > understand where he is coming from and you will be
better able to cope
: > with him.
: >
: > Phillip Martin Allison is about 55yo and an ex-Tasmanian
with a retarded
: > sister. He went to Kogarah Marist Bros and apparently
was good at maths
: > and science. He won a fully paid scholarship and
enrolled in the faculty
: > of Engineering at Sydney Uni in 1971. Two years later
he dropped out and
: > apparently (so rumour has it) there was an incident with
a lecturer (male)
: > in an orchestra pit ;-) ;-).
: >
: > Now to sum up, Philthy has *NO* qualifications of any
sort. He does not
: > even have a driver's licence! He runs a home hobby
business (not
: > registered for GST) from his bedsit in Summer Hill in
Sydney where he
: > tinkers with small domestic appliances. It is even
directly opposite a
: > Catholic Church!!! He is still (technically) a virgin,
is unemployable and
: > suffers from Bipolarity. He abhors anyone with
qualifications and if you
: > want a funny story ask him about his pal (?) Jim
Prendergast who is a PhD.
: >
: > Now Suzy picture this sad, pathetic creature with no
friends, no life and
: > a meagre existence that only has Usenet as a contact
with people. He will
: > (right now) be scouring the internet for any clue as to
your identity and
: > any information about you. He is a *Net Stalker*!!! He
has even *paid*
: > for company searches on poster's businesses in this
group (and others) and
: > then rang and harassed business partners! He has even
offered reward
: > money for information about people!
: >
: > So please be very, very careful and *do not* give out
any personal
: > information that will allow this creature to track you
down!
: >
: > If I can be of any further help please feel free to
email me privately if
: > you prefer.
: >
: > Cheers TT (Philthy's arch nemesis) :))
: >
: > PS you will know when you have won the argument because
all he does is cut
: > 'n' paste the same abuse post after post ;-) Why he
will even start new
: > headers with the same stuff! Sighhhhhhh...............
Sad really, isn't
: > it?
: >
: Thanks. Now I understand. It is sad. And from what you say
I have "won" the
: argument. I'm sorry about that actually, because if he had
the knowledge to
: prove I was barking up the wrong tree, I would be glad to
be corrected!

As we all do ;-) Unfortunately Philthy is never wrong (in
his universe anyway) so he obviously doesn't come to these
NGs to get knowledge but only to Troll, argue and abuse :-(

:
: As for stalking etc, that would explain the silly
references to chat rooms.

Yep. He will be infatuated with you by now and will be
pulling his hair (and other parts of himself) out trying to
track you down. So again, please be very cautious and
careful about what you divulge regarding personal stuff.
Also do not underestimate him. He may have the foulest
mouth on the planet but he is very shrewd and cunning. For
further reading look up Bipolar Disorder.

: I've googled Suzy and there is indeed one who inhabits
chat rooms and has an
: unhealthy obsession. But it certainly isn't me, which
would be obvious to an
: intelligent person...

Don't let the odd little paranoid mania stand in the way of
a good stalking :))

Thanks again for the explanation, and especially the
: virginity bit. If I'd known (rather than guessed) I might
have been more
: gentle...

Why? He reaps what he sows ;-) BTW there is no end to
depth of his sexual perversions and fantasies and no doubt
you will be exposed to them if you continue to try and have
sensible discussions with him.

Also be warned, after the abuse there will be attempts at
private emails (to try and patch things up) which will then
lead onto private phone calls (which he may record) and when
he has your trust and knows enough about you he will
endeavour to defame and embarrass you from one end of Usenet
to the other. I (and several others) have had the
treatment!

BTW if you wish to get to know Philthy a little better read
some of his posts. Groups search - Author: Phil Allison -
search on the word Autistic, or the "C" word or the "F" word
(or all three together) and you will find hundreds (yes
100s) of posts where he swears, abuses and maligns very
decent people.

Please be warned and even if you think I am some sort of
nutter as well it is better to err on the side of caution.

All the best TT
 
On 26/02/2008 08:05 David L. Jones wrote:
It's still not going to give you any useful indication of when the
power is going to fail at *your* place. So what's the point measuring
this?, if as I gather your point is to predict blackouts and such?
Unpredictable local storms, car crashes, transformer failures, and
nearby local load switching are going to potentially cause you more
blackouts and/or brownouts.

Dave.

Now that's putting it into perspective. :)

My little UPS from Rockby Electronics [free plug] has saved me from
losing data quite a few times during brief interruptions caused by
storms and car accidents bringing down power lines in the local area.


Bob
 
Suzy wrote:

I am needing to generate about 1v p-to-p at 50Hz sine wave as accurately as
I can. Please don't suggest syncing to mains as that's the application -- to
calibrate an instrument to measure the actual variance of the mains from
time to time from 50 Hz precisely.

My current (ouch) thoughts are to get a 2 MHz crystal and divide down to
50Hz. Any comments on this idea or an alternative?
Think it was EA that ran a project for a TV derived frequency
reference around 15 years ago.

They claimed atomic clock accuracy, since that's what most, if not
all, of the commercial channels used to derive their horizontal sync.

I used one as a reference for a frequency counter, with good results,
up until our TV went digital (I'm on Optus satellite TV). Presumably
it would still work on ground based analogue transmissions (which I
don't get).

It was available as a kit IIRC.

--
John H
 
One crude way to watch what the mains frequency's doing is to be in
an area of poor (analog) TV reception where there are high voltage power
lines nearby.
Wait for a nice humid day when the insulators are crackling, then
watch a low VHF channel (Channel 2 is good) and watch what the
horizontal lines of RF noise from the insulators arcing are doing in the
picture. This is comparing the mains frequency against the very accurate
50Hz field rate timing of the TV station.
If the noise lines are moving up the picture, the mains frequency's
above 50Hz and vice versa. I think I got that the right way around. :)
You could use a stop watch to measure how long it takes for the
interference to do a complete 'loop' and do some calculating of the
exact mains frequency.


Bob
 
On 26/02/2008 16:38 John_H wrote:
Suzy wrote:

I am needing to generate about 1v p-to-p at 50Hz sine wave as accurately as
I can. Please don't suggest syncing to mains as that's the application -- to
calibrate an instrument to measure the actual variance of the mains from
time to time from 50 Hz precisely.

My current (ouch) thoughts are to get a 2 MHz crystal and divide down to
50Hz. Any comments on this idea or an alternative?

Think it was EA that ran a project for a TV derived frequency
reference around 15 years ago.

They claimed atomic clock accuracy, since that's what most, if not
all, of the commercial channels used to derive their horizontal sync.

I used one as a reference for a frequency counter, with good results,
up until our TV went digital (I'm on Optus satellite TV). Presumably
it would still work on ground based analogue transmissions (which I
don't get).

It was available as a kit IIRC.
Jim Rowe based it on a simple circuit I submitted as a Circuit and
Design Idea. ;-)
 
John_H wrote:
Suzy wrote:

I am needing to generate about 1v p-to-p at 50Hz sine wave as accurately as
I can. Please don't suggest syncing to mains as that's the application -- to
calibrate an instrument to measure the actual variance of the mains from
time to time from 50 Hz precisely.

My current (ouch) thoughts are to get a 2 MHz crystal and divide down to
50Hz. Any comments on this idea or an alternative?

Think it was EA that ran a project for a TV derived frequency
reference around 15 years ago.

!5 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
On 26/02/2008 16:51 Michael A. Terrell wrote:
!5 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.
Thanks for the info, Michael.
Back then, Jim Rowe got the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) to do some precise measurements
of his TV-derived frequency standard.
They found that all the networks were very accurate, but a couple
were super-precise. Maybe it's all different now and GPS is the way to go?


Bob
 
On 26/02/2008 16:56 David L. Jones wrote:
No HV lines within cooee of my place though, nor above ground power
lines for that matter.
Come to think of it, I don't have an analog TV any more, nor an analog
band antenna!

Dave.

Darn! Now you won't know when the next blackout due to the network
being overloaded is going to happen. :)


Bob
 
"Bob Parker" <bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:47c3aad7$0$27309$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
On 26/02/2008 16:51 Michael A. Terrell wrote:

!5 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.

Thanks for the info, Michael.
Back then, Jim Rowe got the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) to do some precise measurements
of his TV-derived frequency standard.
Strange considering Telstra maintained the Australian frequency standards at
the time, not the CSIRO.
Telstra has now given it away, but last I heard the CSIRO was not
interested. Didn't want to spend the money (the same reason Telstra gave it
away)


They found that all the networks were very accurate, but a couple
were super-precise. Maybe it's all different now and GPS is the way to
go?


Well the ABC-2 clock was running 1 hour and five minutes fast, (compared to
AEDT and their programs) most of Sunday morning. I wouldn't have too much
faith in them any more :-(

MrT.
 
On Feb 26, 4:43 pm, Bob Parker <bobp.deletet...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
One crude way to watch what the mains frequency's doing is to be in
an area of poor (analog) TV reception where there are high voltage power
lines nearby.
Wait for a nice humid day when the insulators are crackling, then
watch a low VHF channel (Channel 2 is good) and watch what the
horizontal lines of RF noise from the insulators arcing are doing in the
picture. This is comparing the mains frequency against the very accurate
50Hz field rate timing of the TV station.
If the noise lines are moving up the picture, the mains frequency's
above 50Hz and vice versa. I think I got that the right way around. :)
You could use a stop watch to measure how long it takes for the
interference to do a complete 'loop' and do some calculating of the
exact mains frequency.
Neat!

No HV lines within cooee of my place though, nor above ground power
lines for that matter.
Come to think of it, I don't have an analog TV any more, nor an analog
band antenna!

Dave.
 
Bob Parker wrote:
On 26/02/2008 16:51 Michael A. Terrell wrote:

15 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.

Thanks for the info, Michael.
Back then, Jim Rowe got the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) to do some precise measurements
of his TV-derived frequency standard.
They found that all the networks were very accurate, but a couple
were super-precise.

It may have taken longer for the frame store equipment to migrate
from type 'M' NTSC in the US to other countries. Want to have some fun?
Try synching two different brands of frame store to the transmitter
site's sync generator for live programming from two other cities. A one
degree phase shift was visible on air.


Maybe it's all different now and GPS is the way to go?

GPS derived 10 MHz lab standards are common these days. There was a
construction article on a website to convert a surplus rack mount cell
phone base station GPS receiver into a low cost lab standard.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
On Feb 26, 5:02 pm, Bob Parker <bobp.deletet...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
On 26/02/2008 16:56 David L. Jones wrote:



No HV lines within cooee of my place though, nor above ground power
lines for that matter.
Come to think of it, I don't have an analog TV any more, nor an analog
band antenna!

Dave.

Darn! Now you won't know when the next blackout due to the network
being overloaded is going to happen. :)
Guess I'll have to work on a running average or something, I think
it's currently about once every year. Pretty darn good IMO.

Or perhaps I could make a divining rod out of some cryogenically
frozen oxygen free copper cable or something? :->

Dave.
 
On Feb 26, 4:59 pm, Bob Parker <bobp.deletet...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
On 26/02/2008 16:51 Michael A. Terrell wrote:



!5 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.

Thanks for the info, Michael.
Back then, Jim Rowe got the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) to do some precise measurements
of his TV-derived frequency standard.
They found that all the networks were very accurate, but a couple
were super-precise. Maybe it's all different now and GPS is the way to go?
GPS is the way to go now for sure.
Even Rubidium references come up cheaply on eBay these days.

Dave.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> schreef in bericht
news:47C3B86E.608E8ED1@earthlink.net...
Bob Parker wrote:

On 26/02/2008 16:51 Michael A. Terrell wrote:

15 years ago? TV stations tend to use a frame store at the transmitter
to clean up switching glitches, and they regenerate the color sync with
a cheap crystal, typically four times the color burst. These are
accurate to about 10 hz. Prior to that, live network feeds were run
from Rubidium frequency standards.

Thanks for the info, Michael.
Back then, Jim Rowe got the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) to do some precise measurements
of his TV-derived frequency standard.
They found that all the networks were very accurate, but a couple
were super-precise.


It may have taken longer for the frame store equipment to migrate
from type 'M' NTSC in the US to other countries. Want to have some fun?
Try synching two different brands of frame store to the transmitter
site's sync generator for live programming from two other cities. A one
degree phase shift was visible on air.


Maybe it's all different now and GPS is the way to go?


GPS derived 10 MHz lab standards are common these days. There was a
construction article on a website to convert a surplus rack mount cell
phone base station GPS receiver into a low cost lab standard.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Saw something like that at:
http://home.teleport.com/~oldaker/

petrus bitbyter
 

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