Failed Electro

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:12:05 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

:
:
:
:"keithr" <keithr@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
:news:489fe6c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
:>
:> "kreed" <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote in message
:> news:0ab54c17-fff5-4ba6-938a-775f8a42b034@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
:>> On Aug 11, 12:35 pm, "Phil Allison" <philalli...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
:>>> "Den"
:>>>
:>>>
:>>>
:>>> > & iinet who stopped carrying binary ng's some time ago......
:>>>
:>>> ** The ABSE pic is here:
:>>>
:>>> http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/framebanner_3?http://www.u...
:>>>
:>>> " ** The attached pic is of a 6800uF, 80 volt, 85C electro of recent
:>>> Taiwanese
:>>> manufacture, which has not been subjected to abuse in any way. When
:>>> removed
:>>> from the equipment last Friday, it was completely open circuit and with
:>>> the
:>>> top slightly bulged.
:>>>
:>>> When the seal was broken, it hissed like a can of beer does when you
:>>> pull
:>>> the ring and brown liquid bubbled out the opening.
:>>>
:>>> The brand is " Su'scon " - no kidding.
:>>>
:>>> http://www.su-scon.com.tw/
:>>>
:>>> So the "Capacitor plague " is still with us.
:>>>
:>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague "
:>>>
:>>> .... Phil
:>>>
:>>> ......
:>>
:>> yuck.
:>>
:>> lucky it didnt explode. That would have made a mess.
:>
:> I once had a 100uf tantalum explode in my face. One of the really old
:> ones, a metal tube with the ends epoxied in. Everything went white until
:> the paperdust cleared to the sight of the rest of the lab pissing their
:> boots at me disappearing into a miniature snow storm.
:
:**One like this?
:
:http://www.bikudo.com/product_search/details/65538/axial_solid_tantalum_capacitor.html
:
:They still make 'em. They're still a very good cap. Very long life and
:excellent characteristics. Often used in military applications. They tend to
:be expensive.


That is a solid hermetic sealed tantalum which is relatively modern. But the
one's I think you mean are "wet" tantalums which do look similar. The first
hermetic sealed tantalums such as the KEMET T110 series date back around 40
years
http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kechome.nsf/file/Tantalum%20Hermetically%20Sealed-Axial%20Catalog/$file/F3100_TaHermSeal.pdf

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:24:36 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:doa1a4tt7tdp55mst3c82462cusphf7kra@4ax.com...
Sloman's problem is that he's intensely, overwhelmingly, repulsively,
obnoxiously, sane.

Marginally half sane people like us are far more fun. ;-)

Tim

Exactly. And we design better stuff, too.

That just stands to reason.

John

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Colin Horsley wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:N8OdnauBx9ZGTALVnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Colin Horsley wrote:

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:6g9lr7Feu5slU1@mid.individual.net...Linda wrote:

None of us are perfect here, welcome to the Castle.

Linda

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:W5CdnVFoQNB1mDzVnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@earthlink.com...

Linda wrote:

I'm sorry for your loss.


Thanks.


I count my blessings often.


Me too. I tell people that I rely on the first three blessings, every
morning.

1: Waking up.
2: being able to get out of bed.
3: Making it to the bathroom, before the side effects of my medicine
kick in.

After that, I take them as they come! ;-)


BTW, I like to warn people of my warped sense of humor. I know it's
warped, because I warped it myself.

Also, please ignore any typos, for now. I had a palsy in my good eye
a few months ago, and still haven't healed well enough to see what I'm
typing. The doctors want me to wait another four months, before they
will consider surgery.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:

The crazy, and the insane.

The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

"Colin Horsley"
"Phil Allison"


** See ABSE for graphic image of faulty 6800uF electro cap.

Not one for the squeamish....
Please excuse my ignorance, but what group is ABSE?

** ABSE = " alt.binaries.schematics.electronic "

Not available with Google Groups or a few yank ISPs that have banned all "
alt
"
NGs.
..... Phil

Thanks. Westnet newsgroup only has "alt.binaries.sex*****" then it goes to
" alt.binaries.sleazemovies" No "schematics" in sight.

You do know that "schematics" is before "sex" in an alphabetically
sorted list, don't you? If it didn't, most guys would never find it.

You got me! The first item in "alt.binaries.s* " is "alt.binaries.seduction"

Sounds like a pretty sorry NNTP server.

The Usenet Replayer website lets you veiew most
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic messages.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:

The crazy, and the insane.

The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

On Aug 12, 2:56 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:24:36 -0500, "Tim Williams"

tmoran...@charter.net> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:doa1a4tt7tdp55mst3c82462cusphf7kra@4ax.com...
Sloman's problem is that he's intensely, overwhelmingly, repulsively,
obnoxiously, sane.

Marginally half sane people like us are far more fun.  ;-)

Tim

Exactly. And we design better stuff, too.

That just stands to reason.

That's John's reasoning for you. He certainly designs more saleable
stuff than I do, but if I was as blindly optimistic about the quality
of the stuff I designed I might have been able to sell more of it.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[keithr]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:6gbrpqFf7tm9U1@mid.individual.net...

"keithr" <keithr@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
news:489fe6c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

"kreed" <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ab54c17-fff5-4ba6-938a-775f8a42b034@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 11, 12:35 pm, "Phil Allison" <philalli...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Den"



& iinet who stopped carrying binary ng's some time ago......

** The ABSE pic is here:

http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/framebanner_3?http://www.u...

" ** The attached pic is of a 6800uF, 80 volt, 85C electro of recent
Taiwanese
manufacture, which has not been subjected to abuse in any way. When
removed
from the equipment last Friday, it was completely open circuit and with
the
top slightly bulged.

When the seal was broken, it hissed like a can of beer does when you
pull
the ring and brown liquid bubbled out the opening.

The brand is " Su'scon " - no kidding.

http://www.su-scon.com.tw/

So the "Capacitor plague " is still with us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague "

.... Phil

......

yuck.

lucky it didnt explode. That would have made a mess.

I once had a 100uf tantalum explode in my face. One of the really old
ones, a metal tube with the ends epoxied in. Everything went white until
the paperdust cleared to the sight of the rest of the lab pissing their
boots at me disappearing into a miniature snow storm.

**One like this?

http://www.bikudo.com/product_search/details/65538/axial_solid_tantalum_capacitor.html

They still make 'em. They're still a very good cap. Very long life and
excellent characteristics. Often used in military applications. They tend
to be expensive.

Something like that, I think that the brand was Stantalum or something like
that. Its a long time ago, we were developing an automatic landing system
for military aircraft.

K

 

[keithr]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:cbt1a4di9u4fr1c0ctp87jt69g8ollmn2t@4ax.com...

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:12:05 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

:
:
:
:"keithr" <keithr@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
:news:489fe6c0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
:
:> "kreed" <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote in message
:
news:0ab54c17-fff5-4ba6-938a-775f8a42b034@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
:>> On Aug 11, 12:35 pm, "Phil Allison" <philalli...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
:>>> "Den"
:
:
:
:>>> > & iinet who stopped carrying binary ng's some time ago......
:
:>>> ** The ABSE pic is here:
:
:
http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/framebanner_3?http://www.u...
:
:>>> " ** The attached pic is of a 6800uF, 80 volt, 85C electro of recent
:>>> Taiwanese
:>>> manufacture, which has not been subjected to abuse in any way. When
:>>> removed
:>>> from the equipment last Friday, it was completely open circuit and
with
:>>> the
:>>> top slightly bulged.
:
:>>> When the seal was broken, it hissed like a can of beer does when you
:>>> pull
:>>> the ring and brown liquid bubbled out the opening.
:
:>>> The brand is " Su'scon " - no kidding.
:
:>>> http://www.su-scon.com.tw/
:
:>>> So the "Capacitor plague " is still with us.
:
:>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague "
:
:>>> .... Phil
:
:>>> ......
:
:>> yuck.
:
:>> lucky it didnt explode. That would have made a mess.
:
:> I once had a 100uf tantalum explode in my face. One of the really old
:> ones, a metal tube with the ends epoxied in. Everything went white
until
:> the paperdust cleared to the sight of the rest of the lab pissing their
:> boots at me disappearing into a miniature snow storm.
:
:**One like this?
:
:http://www.bikudo.com/product_search/details/65538/axial_solid_tantalum_capacitor.html
:
:They still make 'em. They're still a very good cap. Very long life and
:excellent characteristics. Often used in military applications. They tend
to
:be expensive.


That is a solid hermetic sealed tantalum which is relatively modern. But
the
one's I think you mean are "wet" tantalums which do look similar. The
first
hermetic sealed tantalums such as the KEMET T110 series date back around
40
years
http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kechome.nsf/file/Tantalum%20Hermetically%20Sealed-Axial%20Catalog/$file/F3100_TaHermSeal.pdf

This was in the 1960s. The first tantalums that I saw were in about 1961, I
may still have a couple of them around somewhere.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:53:27 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Aug 12, 2:56 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:24:36 -0500, "Tim Williams"

tmoran...@charter.net> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:doa1a4tt7tdp55mst3c82462cusphf7kra@4ax.com...
Sloman's problem is that he's intensely, overwhelmingly, repulsively,
obnoxiously, sane.

Marginally half sane people like us are far more fun.  ;-)

Tim

Exactly. And we design better stuff, too.

That just stands to reason.

That's John's reasoning for you. He certainly designs more saleable
stuff than I do, but if I was as blindly optimistic about the quality
of the stuff I designed I might have been able to sell more of it.

Wrong, as usual. The way to design great stuff is to be absolutely
paranoid about its quality, and to trust nothing... not parts, not
datasheets, not PCB fabricators, not code, not observations, not
measurements, not people, and especially not yourself.

What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet? Of course you do, you're
sane.

John

 

On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:53:27 -0700 (PDT), bill.slo...@ieee.org wrote:
On Aug 12, 2:56 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:24:36 -0500, "Tim Williams"

tmoran...@charter.net> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:doa1a4tt7tdp55mst3c82462cusphf7kra@4ax.com...
Sloman's problem is that he's intensely, overwhelmingly, repulsively,
obnoxiously, sane.

Marginally half sane people like us are far more fun.  ;-)

Tim

Exactly. And we design better stuff, too.

That just stands to reason.

That's John's reasoning for you. He certainly designs more saleable
stuff than I do, but if I was as blindly optimistic about the quality
of the stuff I designed I might have been able to sell more of it.

Wrong, as usual. The way to design great stuff is to be absolutely
paranoid about its quality, and to trust nothing... not parts, not
datasheets, not PCB fabricators, not code, not observations, not
measurements, not people, and especially not yourself.

Agreed. My problem is that you seem to place too much trust in the
proposition that you have suceeded; you trust yourself too much.

What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?

I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.

Of course you do, you're sane.

Clearly too sane for my own good.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[James Arthur]

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin wrote:

What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?

I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.

What a skewed reality. You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

That's bizarre.


Regards,
James Arthur

 

[Eeyore]

James Arthur wrote:

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin wrote:

What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?

I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.

What a skewed reality. You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

That's bizarre.

Bill IS bizarre.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The data I'm accepting has passed through peer-review

Like Mann's ?

Bwahahahahahahaaaha !

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
James Arthur wrote:

What a skewed reality. You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

That's bizarre.

Bill IS bizarre.

I know stuff.

You talk a lot.

I've never seen you make a single decent design suggestion. Speaks volumes.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

From my point of view, it is Graham's pretensions to knowledge that
are really bizarre. It is as if he aspired to compete in formula one
riding a unicycle.

You ARE indeed quite MAD. It's time you sought treatment. Your detachment from
reality accelerates every single day.

Graham

 

On Aug 14, 1:48 am, James Arthur <bogusabd...@verizon.net> wrote:

bill.slo...@ieee.org wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin wrote:
What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?

I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.

What a skewed reality.  You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

The data I'm accepting has passed through peer-review and is cross-
checked against the work of other scientists that also goes through
peer-review.

John Larkin's claims about his gear don't have the same kind of built-
in quality control. He may be selling to the world's most demanding
customers - as was Cambridge Instruments back in the 1980's when I
worked for them - but my opression is that these customers are mainly
interested in getting hold of gear that they can use to solve their
immediate problems; if it works, they aren't all that interested in
how well it works.

At Cambridge Instrumnents I did quite a lot of work on the EBMF 10.5
electron-beam microfabricator, which is an extensively modified
electron microscope which uses an electron beam to write fine patterns
on a flat surface - usually a chromium mask to be used to define a
layer in an integrated circuit.

It was a fine machine and worked well for a lot of customers - the
first one went to Fairchild with a set of scanning boards that I'd
hand-modified, and they loved it and used it to make most of the masks
for their 100k ECL parts.

The European university's semiconductor lab at IMEC in Belgium bought
one and set a bunch of graduate students to characterising the machine
while they got their semiconductor fab up and running, and they found
more minor faults than you could shake a stick at. At one point the
engineers who were working on correcting these faults came to me to
get hold the heat-pipe based heat-sink from my cupboard that I'd
ordered and not been given the time to try out on the machine - the
problem it was intended to solve was hypothetical and the guys at IMEC
had taken the trouble to validate my hypothesis.

Quality control on complex machines takes a lot of work and few
organisations have got the time to do it.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

On Aug 14, 7:46 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

James Arthur wrote:
bill.slo...@ieee.org wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin wrote:

What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?

I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.

What a skewed reality.  You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

That's bizarre.

Bill IS bizarre.

I know stuff. Graham doesn't and he really doesn't appreciate how
little he knows and how much there is to know.This makes it difficult
for him to understand what I'm on about.

From my point of view, it is Graham's pretensions to knowledge that
are really bizarre. It is as if he aspired to compete in formula one
riding a unicycle.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[James Arthur]

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Aug 14, 1:48 am, James Arthur <bogusabd...@verizon.net> wrote:
bill.slo...@ieee.org wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:02 am, John Larkin wrote:
What, you find that inconsistent with a determination to sell
mind-rippingly good, insanely priced, perfect-out-the-door products to
the most demanding customers on the planet?
I don't find any inconsistency in your means to achieve the result you
are striving for; I just worry about the level of quality control that
lets you be so optimistic about the results you claim to have
achieved.
What a skewed reality. You accept interpretation and
manipulation of data you've never seen from people you
don't know without reservation, yet dismiss a real guy's
reliability experience with years of quality product he's
delivered to the world's most demanding customers.

The data I'm accepting has passed through peer-review and is cross-
checked against the work of other scientists that also goes through
peer-review.

By your own admission, the data are not reviewed.

John Larkin's claims about his gear don't have the same kind of built-
in quality control.

That is a baseless slander.

James Arthur

 

[Eeyore]

James Arthur wrote:

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

John Larkin's claims about his gear don't have the same kind of built-
in quality control.

That is a baseless slander.

All I had to do was read your reply James at the botton of the page, to KNOW it
was a post of Sloman's. What is the matter with the man ?

Graham

 

[James Arthur]

Eeyore wrote:

James Arthur wrote:

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

John Larkin's claims about his gear don't have the same kind of built-
in quality control.

That is a baseless slander.

All I had to do was read your reply James at the botton of the page, to KNOW it
was a post of Sloman's. What is the matter with the man ?

He just jumps to conclusions, that's all. He knows America
better than Americans, from his sources overseas, John's
business better than John, etc. And then he sticks to his
unloaded guns and lectures us.

I've seen John's gear. It's good.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:07:16 GMT, James Arthur
<bogusabdsqy@verizon.net> wrote:

John Larkin's claims about his gear don't have the same kind of built-
in quality control.

That is a baseless slander.

James Arthur

As far as my claims not having built-in quality control, I freely
admit that my posts to s.e.d. have not been peer reviewed, that I am
not personally ISO9000 certified, and that my body has not been
certified free of hazardous substances.

John

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:47:18 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

You didn't have Bill Sloman in mind did you ?

The most reliable sign of sanity is doing the same thing while expecting
different results.

Cheers!
Rich