EVs present multiple safety problems for the public...

[Flyguy]

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 1:38:27 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

I guess that\'s why they don\'t allow full sized pickup trucks to park in decks. Right?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:38:27 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

Trust Sewage Sweeper to seep up some more right-wing miss-information. In reality electric vehicles tend to be 30% heavier than their gasoline-engined equivalents, but there always have been a distribution in vehicle weights, and another 30% extra weight in a parking garage is no more likely to cause it to collapse than a sudden influx of SUVs.

SUVs present the same sort of danger to lighter cars in a car crash, and this hasn\'t lead to them being banned\'

And the crap about them no paying for road maintenance is just silly - they don\'t do so at the moment, because there aren\'t enough of them to matter, but it\'s just that the responsible authorities haven\'t yet got around to imposing a road use tax on everybody, mainly because they haven\'t yet sorted out the cheapest and most comprehensive way of doing it.

My car already get billed for a road use tax on selected roads in Sydney - it\'s fitted with an active card at the top of the windscreen which beeps when I enter and leave a toll road, and the portal sends me a bill every six months or so. Stick a GPS locator in it and it can tell the portal where I\'ve been since I last went through one.

--
Bill Sloman, Synhey

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:29:12 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:38:27 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards
Trust Sewage Sweeper to seep up some more right-wing miss-information. In reality electric vehicles tend to be 30% heavier than their gasoline-engined equivalents, but there always have been a distribution in vehicle weights, and another 30% extra weight in a parking garage is no more likely to cause it to collapse than a sudden influx of SUVs.

In the U.S. the commercial passenger airlines have been estimating the passenger weight load as 150 lbs per person for decades. This is incredibly inaccurate, and the FAA is just now formulating revising the rules. Dunno what\'s the problem with making the passengers stand on a scale. Some idiots will be screaming about invasion of privacy no doubt.

SUVs present the same sort of danger to lighter cars in a car crash, and this hasn\'t lead to them being banned\'

The full answer is \"it\'s complicated.\" The big heavy EVs definitely present a risk to lighter vehicles.

As heavy EVs proliferate, their weight may be a drag on safety

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/as-heavy-evs-proliferate-their-weight-may-be-a-drag-on-safety

Definitive source on all aspects of safety:

\"The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) is an independent, nonprofit scientific and educational organization dedicated to reducing deaths, injuries and property damage from motor vehicle crashes through research and evaluation and through education of consumers, policymakers and safety professionals.

The Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) shares and supports this mission through scientific studies of insurance data representing the human and economic losses resulting from the ownership and operation of different types of vehicles and by publishing insurance loss results by vehicle make and model..\"

And the crap about them no paying for road maintenance is just silly - they don\'t do so at the moment, because there aren\'t enough of them to matter, but it\'s just that the responsible authorities haven\'t yet got around to imposing a road use tax on everybody, mainly because they haven\'t yet sorted out the cheapest and most comprehensive way of doing it.

They do pay road tax in U.S. in the form of a registration tax that accounts for the low fuel use of the vehicle as a function of make and model. Even hybrids have been paying the additional tax for some time. The registration process requires an odometer reading, so the authorities can gauge quite accurately the amount of road use.

Looks like the morons in the OP\'s state are just now getting around to doing the same thing:

https://news.wfsu.org/state-news/2023-03-21/florida-ev-owners-may-get-their-own-version-of-a-gas-tax

My car already get billed for a road use tax on selected roads in Sydney - it\'s fitted with an active card at the top of the windscreen which beeps when I enter and leave a toll road, and the portal sends me a bill every six months or so. Stick a GPS locator in it and it can tell the portal where I\'ve been since I last went through one.

--
Bill Sloman, Synhey

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a
pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it
coming. I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s
probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs (apart
from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.) And we haven\'t even begun to get to
grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!
Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the
roads and production of any more shut down world-wide.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 9:33:46 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards
These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a
pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it
coming. I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s
probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs (apart
from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.) And we haven\'t even begun to get to
grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!
Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the
roads and production of any more shut down world-wide.

In U.S. they have this:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/02/26/2018-03721/federal-motor-vehicle-safety-standard-no-141-minimum-sound-requirements-for-hybrid-and-electric

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42448312/nhtsa-investigates-ev-hybrid-safety-related-retrofit-recall/

Tesla got in trouble once again for producing a flawed system.

 

[a a]

The idiot Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

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[a a]

The idiot Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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[a a]

The idiot Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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[a a]

The idiot Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it coming.

They seem to have be required to incorporate a audilble noise source just to deal with this, at least in some juristictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds

I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs (apart from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.) And we haven\'t even begun to get to grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

Electric batteries don\'t \"spontaneously combust\". Self-discharge does get worse as they get older, and that does warm the battery.

Electric cars do have built-in battery managements systems which do monitor the temperature of the battery core and its surface.

If the self-heating gets back enough to get the battery core up to about 120C, they can go into thermal run-away, when the self heating is bad enough make self-discharge dramatically worse.
but the battery management will have been flashing lights and sounding the horn long before that. The owner can can ignore it, but the event isn\'t \"spontaneous\".

Flyguy seems to suffer from the same kind of ignorant alarmism.

Actually getting rid of battery at it\'s end of life isn\'t difficult. The full name is \"a battery of cells\" and the individual cells aren\'t large, so you just dismantle the battery and send the cells off to be recycled, in whatever bite-sized chunks suit you and recycler. Much less of a problem than an internal combustion engine block.

> Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the roads and the production of any more shut down world-wide.

Cursitor Doom is a menace and needs to removed from the internet before anybody takes him seriously. Perhaps we could settle for a government health warming - this poster no grasp of reality and a passion for for fatuous fairy tales - but it probably wouldn\'t be enough.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:33:46 PM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards

These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it coming.

They seem to have been required to incorporate a audible noise source just to deal with this, at least in some juristictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds

I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs (apart from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.) And we haven\'t even begun to get to grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

Electric batteries don\'t \"spontaneously combust\". Self-discharge does get worse as they get older, and that does warm the battery.

Electric cars do have built-in battery managements systems which do monitor the temperature of the battery core and the battery surface.

If the self-heating gets bad enough to get the battery core up to about 120C, they can go into thermal run-away, when the self heating is high enough make self-discharge dramatically worse.
but the battery management will have been flashing lights and sounding the horn long before that. The owner can can ignore it, but the event isn\'t \"spontaneous\".

Flyguy seems to suffer from the same kind of ignorant alarmism about battereis.

Actually getting rid of battery at it\'s end of life isn\'t difficult. The full name is \"a battery of cells\" and the individual cells aren\'t large, so you just dismantle the battery and send the cells off to be recycled, in whatever bite-sized chunks suit you and recycler. Much less of a problem than an internal combustion engine block.

> Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the roads and the production of any more shut down world-wide.

Cursitor Doom is a menace and needs to removed from the internet before anybody takes him seriously. Perhaps we could settle for a government health warming - this poster no grasp of reality and a passion for for fatuous fairy tales - but it probably wouldn\'t be enough.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 9:33:46 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards
These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a
pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it
coming.

If you can\'t hear an EV coming, it\'s because you are deaf. It was a couple of years ago, they required EVs to make noise equivalent to an ICE when driving at parking lot speeds. On the road, tires make as much noise as a car engine.

I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s
probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs

Which is not supported by any facts.

(apart
from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.)

Again, not supported by the facts.

And we haven\'t even begun to get to
grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

Not sure which vehicle you are talking about. My model X has a 540 kg battery and it\'s one of the largest EVs on the road. EV batteries are recycled, first by using them as batteries in stationary applications, then by using the materials inside.

Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the
roads and production of any more shut down world-wide.

It\'s fortunate that you stand alone in this idea, other than a few other kooks.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 9:33:46?AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The much heavier weight of EVs could cause parking garages to collapse. An EV fire in a parking garage is virtually impossible to fight. They are also a threat to lighter ICE cars in a crash. On top of that, EV owners don\'t pay for road maintenance and construction because they don\'t pay gas taxes!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/transportation/growing-electric-vehicle-sales-bring-concerns-over-safety-hazards
These infernal things are an absolute menace. It\'s so easy as a
pedestrian to get hit by one passing by because you can\'t hear it
coming.

If you can\'t hear an EV coming, it\'s because you are deaf. It was a couple of years ago, they required EVs to make noise equivalent to an ICE when driving at parking lot speeds. On the road, tires make as much noise as a car engine.

I don\'t give a damn how much noise they don\'t make on the highway. The
fact is in Yurp they\'re as silent as the grave - which is where any
unfortunate pedestrian who enounters one will end up if he\'s hit by
one.

I note that aspect is missing from the article yet it\'s
probably one of the most important safety issues regarding EVs

Which is not supported by any facts.

Perhaps not in your neck of the woods, but hereabouts it\'s certainly
the case.

(apart
from the fact that they spontaneously combust whilst locking all the
doors so no one can get out.)

Again, not supported by the facts.

Bloody well is! I have posted several links to Teslas bursting into
flames and cooking their passengers whose egress from the
conflagration (and it *is* a conflagration, believe me) was prevented
by the doors automatically locking them inside. You know damn well
this lead to the somewhat tasteless joke about a \"free cremation for
every new owner\" going the rounds a while ago.

And we haven\'t even begun to get to
grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

Not sure which vehicle you are talking about. My model X has a 540 kg battery and it\'s one of the largest EVs on the road. EV batteries are recycled, first by using them as batteries in stationary applications, then by using the materialnside

Er, no, sorry. That\'s the line spouted by the manufacturers but it\'s
not the actual reality. The fact of the matter is that there is an
incipient environmental catastrophe unfolding right now. And it will
become increasingly difficult for people like yourself to ignore now
that the first generation of these EVs are reaching end of life.

Seriously, these things are a menace and need to be taken off the
roads and production of any more shut down world-wide.

It\'s fortunate that you stand alone in this idea, other than a few other kooks.

You and that conspicuous idiot Bill Sloman are the only kooks ignoring
the reality of the situation here. You mark my words: the disposal of
EV batteries will be the next BIG ISSUE going forward. MARK MY
WORDS....

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 06:33:46 UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
....

> batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

They do not weigh 1400kg.

The battery in a Tesla Model 3 long range weighs less than 500kg which is typical for the larger ones.

kw

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 10:16:47 AM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

On Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 06:33:46 UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
...
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!
They do not weigh 1400kg.

Probably 1400 pounds for most EVs.

My Leaf battery #1 is 400kg/700 pounds, #2 is 40kg/100 pounds, #3 is 14kg/30 pounds, #4 is 10kg/20 pounds.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 10:26:48 UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 10:16:47 AM UTC-7, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
On Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 06:33:46 UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
...
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!
They do not weigh 1400kg.
Probably 1400 pounds for most EVs.

My Leaf battery #1 is 400kg/700 pounds, #2 is 40kg/100 pounds, #3 is 14kg/30 pounds, #4 is 10kg/20 pounds.

Not even 1400lbs for most EVs

The Tesla Model Y (the most popular EV) has a battery weight of 445kg/979lb..

https://www.batterydesign.net/2022-tesla-model-y-4680/

kw

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

søndag den 24. september 2023 kl. 15.33.46 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom:
> batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

type into google: \"what is the weight of a tesla 3 battery\"
....

\"The Standard Range version carries 2,976 cells arranged in 96 groups of 31.. The Long Range version carries 4,416 cells arranged in 96 groups of 46, and weighs 1,060 pounds (480 kg)\"

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Bloody well is! I have posted several links to Teslas bursting into
flames and cooking their passengers whose egress from the
conflagration (and it *is* a conflagration, believe me) was prevented
by the doors automatically locking them inside. You know damn well
this lead to the somewhat tasteless joke about a \"free cremation for
every new owner\" going the rounds a while ago.
And we haven\'t even begun to get to
grips with the environmental cost of dealing with end-of-life
batteries for these things, which can easily weigh 1400kg a piece!

Not sure which vehicle you are talking about. My model X has a 540 kg battery and it\'s one of the largest EVs on the road. EV batteries are recycled, first by using them as batteries in stationary applications, then by using the materialnside

Er, no, sorry. That\'s the line spouted by the manufacturers but it\'s
not the actual reality. The fact of the matter is that there is an
incipient environmental catastrophe unfolding right now. And it will
become increasingly difficult for people like yourself to ignore now
that the first generation of these EVs are reaching end of life.

There\'s not a single renewable power source out there for which recycling/ disposal/ demonstration research is not being conducted. Solar panels will probably add up to more than EV battery packs. Criterion for successful recycling is that the final cost of precious metals extracted shall not be in excess of the newly mined and processed resource. That makes sense to me. And they\'re hitting the target every time.

https://www.energy.gov/infrastructure/electric-drive-vehicle-battery-recycling-and-2nd-life-apps

Life would be easier for you if you investigate the actual facts of whatever it is causing you so much anxiety.