Employability of Computer Programmers in the US

[wally]

My son has expressed an interest in computers and I have attempted to
caution him about the offshoring phenom, to no avail. Is there and
definitive data on the prospects, either positive or negative, for
career potential doing programming?

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

wally wrote:

My son has expressed an interest in computers and I have attempted to
caution him about the offshoring phenom, to no avail. Is there and
definitive data on the prospects, either positive or negative, for
career potential doing programming?

Good question. (Substitute any other tech education)
Some flexibility for the location of the job provided,
together with the basics in hindi and/or chinese ...

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[wally]

Yes I have cautioned him about the language realities BUT he, being the
thinking kid he is, noted that by the time he gets finished with the 4
years both India and china will have become far too costly for IBM, MS,
et al and he'll need to guess the subsaharan tongue to master. Why go
through all this, and simply cater to the coming geriatric needs of the
American elder-group by being a nurse?

 

[wally]

Thanks Tim very insightful. I've tried sterring the boy into security
or something else that requires a physical presence. Having gone
through the pain of an engineering program myself, I don't want to send
him down that path also. Besides, my wallet's just not that fat!

Wages for tech folks here in the NW have leveled off IMHO from the
highs we saw in 1998. Journeymen carpenters make more and don't have to
deal with doubly linked lists

Thx

Wally

 

[Reg Edwards]

Within 10 or 15 years the programming language will be plain English or
Chinese. Programmers will just speak into the microphone.

Programmers will be two for a penny.

 

[Tim Wescott]

wally wrote:

Thanks Tim very insightful. I've tried sterring the boy into security
or something else that requires a physical presence. Having gone
through the pain of an engineering program myself, I don't want to send
him down that path also. Besides, my wallet's just not that fat!

Wages for tech folks here in the NW have leveled off IMHO from the
highs we saw in 1998. Journeymen carpenters make more and don't have to
deal with doubly linked lists

Thx

Wally

With me it was a choice between Physics, electrical engineering, or

foreign language -- if one of the three wouldn't pay, I would have
chosen one anyway.

And I have a friend who's a union pipefitter, he makes more per hour
than I do.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Charles Edmondson]

wally wrote:

My son has expressed an interest in computers and I have attempted to
caution him about the offshoring phenom, to no avail. Is there and
definitive data on the prospects, either positive or negative, for
career potential doing programming?

The basic answer is "Do what you love, and love what you do!"

If he really enjoys programming, and is good at it, he will find
employment, or go into business for himself. If it is just a job or a
paycheck, it doesn't matter...

There are always positions open for GOOD programmers and software
engineers, as well as other technical positions. The hard part is
always having the people skills to find them.

--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:01:54 -0800, the renowned Charles Edmondson
<edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:

wally wrote:

My son has expressed an interest in computers and I have attempted to
caution him about the offshoring phenom, to no avail. Is there and
definitive data on the prospects, either positive or negative, for
career potential doing programming?


The basic answer is "Do what you love, and love what you do!"

If he really enjoys programming, and is good at it, he will find
employment, or go into business for himself. If it is just a job or a
paycheck, it doesn't matter...

There are always positions open for GOOD programmers and software
engineers, as well as other technical positions. The hard part is
always having the people skills to find them.

--
Charlie

Maybe it should start to resemble the advice you'd give to a kid
thinking about a career in MLB or something. Keep going with it, but
have a backup plan so you can fall back on something reliable like law
or medicine.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

Within 10 or 15 years the programming language will be plain English or
Chinese. Programmers will just speak into the microphone.

Programmers will be two for a penny.

Really? Just because anyone can talk it doesn't mean that they can think.

--

Boris Mohar

 

In <liklv0h57h4v1i9ougc63p7ggk2rh0eimm@4ax.com>, on 01/28/05
at 07:02 PM, Boris Mohar <borism_-void-_@sympatico.ca> said:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

Within 10 or 15 years the programming language will be plain English or
Chinese. Programmers will just speak into the microphone.

Programmers will be two for a penny.

Really? Just because anyone can talk it doesn't mean that they can
think.

Based on the programs I see, and the way that code is written, I think two
for a penny is about the right price......

 

[MaxChunk@ergebnis.de]

Joerg wrote:

Because a busted water main cannot be outsourced. Same for the UPS
package, dry-walling, roofing, tiling, a broken washing machine, acute
tooth aches, twisted ankles, heart attacks and so on.

Maybe not the urgent situations, but it is getting popular to travel to
Thailand and similar places for "medical vacations" where you can get
surgery done "on the cheap"...

And of course the dry-walling, roofing, and tiling trades are getting
flooded with Mexicans, at least around here...

Max

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

wally wrote:

Why go
through all this, and simply cater to the coming geriatric needs of the
American elder-group by being a nurse?

Nurses are being imported from wherever.
Over here, we get have predominatly foreigners doing
this job, as it is amongst the lesser well paid ones.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:46:43 -0800, wally wrote:

Thanks Tim very insightful. I've tried sterring the boy into security
or something else that requires a physical presence. Having gone
through the pain of an engineering program myself, I don't want to send
him down that path also. Besides, my wallet's just not that fat!

Wages for tech folks here in the NW have leveled off IMHO from the
highs we saw in 1998. Journeymen carpenters make more and don't have to
deal with doubly linked lists

Have you asked "the boy" what _he_ wants to do? "They" say, "do what you
love, and the money will follow".

If he has no clue yet, then maybe he needs to take off and flop around for
awhile. Maybe bus tables or sell shoes, that sort of thing.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Rolavine]

Subject: Re: Employability of Computer Programmers in the US
From: "Reg Edwards" g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com
Date: 1/28/05 1:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <ctebm1$dat$1@sparta.btinternet.com

Within 10 or 15 years the programming language will be plain English or
Chinese. Programmers will just speak into the microphone.

Programmers will be two for a penny.

If Microsoft has there way you will have to shove the mic up another part of

your anatomy and fart code in visual procto 17.

Rocky

 

[Rich The Philosophizer]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:27:05 +0000, Bradley1234 wrote:

So the push to use offshore outsourcing was a practical one. Companies
based in India would offer software analysis to fix the bad code done by
lazy Americans too incompetent to study SW eng principles, they became
proficient, cheap and well known. The stupid, lazy American programmer
type would want $60 per hour or more and milk it for months until
threatened with being fired, then at the last minute throw together some
junk, get paid off, the company would then seek the next lazy bum to
repeat the same cycle. The same task could be done by some India
company for some fraction of cost, delivered in one week instead of 6
months.

And they _really_ hate it when an $8.00/hour temp steps in and shows up a
staff of three ~$100K programmers. ("Oh, they won't be needing you on that
project any more.")

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

learner@juno.com wrote:

I would do all I could to cause my sons to find something outside of
computers. Trades are more valuable and offer more flexibility, IMO. If
you can build a house, plumb it, wire it, or add onto it, if you can
repair automobiles, or other mechanical devices, you will always be in
demand, and no one can outsource their car repairs to another damn
country.

A fact only inland of the US and perhaps some other big countries.
Over here, with the border being less than 50km, it became popular
to import cars to save a few bucks. Whatever manual work to be done,
eg carpentry, plumbing, is being imported from the other side of the
border. Beside that they get here in less than half an hour, and
work for less, I guess a certain amount of work is never being
taxed as a country border is in between the payer and the one
being paid.

The most important issue is doing something that you enjoy. Being content,
and having fun, is more important than money or the imagined prestige of
being a programmer, or a hardware engineer.

Yes, true.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

 

[Bradley1234]

Its among the highest paid careers known to mankind, very rewarding and the
future is secure. There is perhaps nothing more certain to be in demand.

There are many programmers in the US. Unfortunately the massive use of
offshore outsourcing was the fault of the incompetent programmer "en masse"

If there was a rise in demand for programming in the 80s/90s it produced a
culture of incompetent, inept dolts who charged ridiculous rates to produce
spaghetti code that was fragile and impossible to be revised.

Companies could not afford the organized unions of incompetent American
software engineering companies to fix the bad software, sort of like an auto
body shop charging $100,000 to fix a dent in some old Chevy, or get a better
job done in TJ for $50

So the push to use offshore outsourcing was a practical one. Companies
based in India would offer software analysis to fix the bad code done by
lazy Americans too incompetent to study SW eng principles, they became
proficient, cheap and well known. The stupid, lazy American programmer type
would want $60 per hour or more and milk it for months until threatened with
being fired, then at the last minute throw together some junk, get paid off,
the company would then seek the next lazy bum to repeat the same cycle. The
same task could be done by some India company for some fraction of cost,
delivered in one week instead of 6 months.

So if your son wants to get involved in software eng, get a formal education
that emphasizes proper design style. Do Microsoft Windows programming using
Visual Studio & the dotnet platform, or WindRiver embedded


"wally" <wallypetersen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106944243.790721.286400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

My son has expressed an interest in computers and I have attempted to
caution him about the offshoring phenom, to no avail. Is there and
definitive data on the prospects, either positive or negative, for
career potential doing programming?

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Troll or idiot...you decide.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

And they _really_ hate it when an $8.00/hour temp steps in and shows up
a
staff of three ~$100K programmers

It would never happen.

Experience overcomes youthful arrogance everytime.

I hope you can cook hamburgers...with that attitude, you will be doing
it for a long time to come.

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

Troll or idiot....you decide which...I think you are both.