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---"CWatters" wrote
:
: 200+ miles is very acceptable for second cars use.
:
My "Second Car" will go 400 miles while towing a 6000 pound
trailer, can your dream car do that?
Not surprising; hydrogen is difficult stuff to distribute,I saw a recent article in Scientific American (or was it New Scientist?)
about hydrogen. If I remember correctly it discussed hydrogen in the
context
of our total need for energy and how to use and transport that energy
efficiently. I believe they concluded that if we manage to figure out how
to
make a lot of hydrogen cleanly then the best use for it is not in cars. It
would be better to use it for local power generation and home heating -
and
use the oil saved in our cars. I was a bit surprised but there you are.
Yes, but as I said - the device you pointed to reallyIt is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles.
200+ miles is very acceptable for second cars use.
Yes, but again compare that to a truly comparableThe hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
I believe I read the Jester cost only Ł6000 to make one off.
You're talking about removing and replacing somethingYou mean something as quick as "unplugging" the battery and fitting a new
one? Batteries do wear out so it's likely that battery packs will be
rented
items anyway.
Like what? The "all-electrics" I've seen from the majorThat would appear to be a dual-seat vehicle with extremely
limited cargo space - and there's no mention of what running
various accessories (the headlights, heating or air conditioning,
etc.) would do to the range.
Oh I agree it's not an SUV but it's a heck of a lot better than the car
companies seem to manage with their all electric cars - it just seems like
they ain't really trying.
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basicallyIt is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
Hybrids are able to operate their engine at its optimum performance"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message news:<d7LYc.9091$yA1.487@news.cpqcorp.net>...
It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas engine
runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic energy.
The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
Actually, I haven't checked my truck milage under optimum
conditions, but I doubt it's anything close to the hybrid.
So what makes the hybrid so efficient compared to the normal IC?
-Bill
----------------------
enefficient truck currently available or your 'little truck' is about 40 ton"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:<d7LYc.9091$yA1.487@news.cpqcorp.net>...
It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas engine
runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic energy.
The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
If you only get 25mpg under such conditions either you have the most
Actually, I haven't checked my truck milage under optimum
conditions, but I doubt it's anything close to the hybrid.
So what makes the hybrid so efficient compared to the normal IC?
-Bill
The engine in the hybrid is smaller. When accelerating the electricBut so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
Actually, I haven't checked my truck milage under optimum
conditions, but I doubt it's anything close to the hybrid.
So what makes the hybrid so efficient compared to the normal IC?
The battery in a hybrid is usually too small to power the car for very"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:<d7LYc.9091$yA1.487@news.cpqcorp.net>...
It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17039-2004Jun4.htmlHybrids won't really delay the day that the oil runs out.
"R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:chf84s$nif$1@thorium.cix.co.uk...
:
: "Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress@att.net> wrote in message
: news:ad025737.0409042145.72c727dd@posting.google.com...
: > "Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:<d7LYc.9091$yA1.487@news.cpqcorp.net>...
:
: > >It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
: > >powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
: > >IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC
vehicles
: > >already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
: > >what we're seeing now.
:
: > I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are
basically
: > gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas
engine
: > runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
: > acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic
energy.
: > The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
:
: > But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
: > at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
: > per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
: > the same speed.
:
: If you only get 25mpg under such conditions either you have the
most
: enefficient truck currently available or your 'little truck' is
about 40 ton
: glw.
: > Actually, I haven't checked my truck milage under optimum
: > conditions, but I doubt it's anything close to the hybrid.
: > So what makes the hybrid so efficient compared to the normal
IC?
: > -Bill
Why would it be underpowered? The electric motor should haveCurrently available Hybrids are
1. not trucks, and
2. very underpowered for driving in traffic.
Everyone gets to decide for themselves what they will drive.
So, if my truck runs at optimum RPM on a flat road, withoutBill Bowden wrote:
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message news:<d7LYc.9091$yA1.487@news.cpqcorp.net>...
It is simply not yet practical to produce a pure EV, battery
powered, with acceptable range to compete with gas-powered
IC vehicles. The hybrids can actually better the purely-IC vehicles
already, and can be produced at a reasonable cost, so that's
what we're seeing now.
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas engine
runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic energy.
The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
Actually, I haven't checked my truck milage under optimum
conditions, but I doubt it's anything close to the hybrid.
So what makes the hybrid so efficient compared to the normal IC?
-Bill
----------------------
Hybrids are able to operate their engine at its optimum performance
at all times, and recover some energy by regenerative braking. Together
these offer about 60% increases in efficiency over your truck, which
doesn't get those conditions, but must vary its efficiency and operate
at various rpm's and torques.
-Steve
Just one thing missing -- to achieve optimum MPG, the engine needs to beSo, if my truck runs at optimum RPM on a flat road, without
braking, I should get a 60% increase in milage.
You have a larger engine than would be required in a hybrid, which"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message news:<413ACA09.3ACE@armory.com>...
[snip]
Hybrids are able to operate their engine at its optimum performance
at all times, and recover some energy by regenerative braking. Together
these offer about 60% increases in efficiency over your truck, which
doesn't get those conditions, but must vary its efficiency and operate
at various rpm's and torques.
So, if my truck runs at optimum RPM on a flat road, without
braking, I should get a 60% increase in milage.
There are a couple of problems here. First, yourI don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas engine
runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic energy.
The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
Not as they're currently being made, now - meaning EVsHybrids won't really delay the day
that the oil runs out.
Yes, aerodynamics and tire friction are big factors, but the question"Bill Bowden" <wrongaddress@att.net> wrote in message
news:ad025737.0409042145.72c727dd@posting.google.com...
I don't understand the advantage of hybrids which are basically
gas powered vehicles. The only advantage I see is the gas engine
runs at optimal RPM, and braking is done by the electric motor
acting as a generator which recovers some of the kinetic energy.
The car may also be lighter weight than normal.
But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
There are a couple of problems here. First, your
truck as a whole likely is not designed to be as efficient
as today's typical hybrid. Look at the design of, say, the
current Prius - not only is it a hybrid, but it also has other
design features (low drag body shape, low rolling resistance
tires, etc.) to optimize its performance in this department vs.
what your truck does. Next - how are you determining
"optimum RPM"? Does you truck have any instrumentation
that provides a good instantaneous MPG indication?
Yes, the truck engine is probably designed to operate over a widerFinally, though, and possibly most importantly, I doubt that
the engine in your truck is truly optimized for efficient operation
at a single, constant speed the same way as the engine of
a hybrid could be. It can't be, since it has to be flexible enough
to handle all the different conditions you throw at it in the
course of driving around.
If I can throw in a question here, has anyone got real world experienceBut so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
The gasoline engine part of the hybrid power trainYes, aerodynamics and tire friction are big factors, but the question
is, why do hybrid engines obtain so much better efficiency with
changing loads? Do they change RPM to compensate for load?
But the question you need to ask here is what "optimum"My truck always runs between 2000 and 3000 RPM, as do most other
cars, so that must be close to optimum, and it's a fairly narrow range.
45-52 seem typical. Search for MPG on this forum...But so what? If I drive my little truck at 65 MPH for 2 hours
at optimum RPM without using the brakes, I get maybe 25 miles
per gallon, which is nowhere near the 70 MPG of the hybrid at
the same speed.
If I can throw in a question here, has anyone got real world experience
of the hybrid ( specifically prius) mpg?