detecting a magnet

B

Brian

Guest
If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above it could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the size of an
M&M?
 
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 04:57:10 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above it could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the size of an
M&M?
Roughly proportional to how fast the magnet is moving - give us a
clue.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
 
say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?

"Don Pearce" <donald@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
news:420204b9.12139015@news.plus.net...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 04:57:10 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above it
could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the size of an
M&M?



Roughly proportional to how fast the magnet is moving - give us a
clue.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
 
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:41:03 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?
A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet. It is
also the best choice for such a slow moving magnet.

The magnitude of signal you get depends on stuff like how strong the
magnet is.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
 
"Don Pearce" <donald@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
news:420254af.3593203@news.plus.net...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:41:03 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?


A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet. It is
also the best choice for such a slow moving magnet.

The magnitude of signal you get depends on stuff like how strong the
magnet is.
A SQUID will work, as well. They work best when they are very cold.

Leon
 
"Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote in message
news:VJadnZKl8qofnp_fRVn-tA@centurytel.net...
If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above it
could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the size of an
M&M?
An ordinary inductive coil requires the magnet to be in motion and the
voltage induced is a function of the number of turns and the rate of change
of the flux, dphi)/dt. Therefore the speed of a moving magnet is very
important. Practically you might be able to sense the magnet moving a foot
away or so depending on the number of turns in the coil and the speed of the
magnet. It is a signal to noise issue and power line interference (hum)
would limit what you can detect.

However it is possible to detect small stationary magnetic fields (DC) by
arranging and energizing coils in a device called a flux gate. These things
can be designed to measure fields as low as 1/1000 of the earths magnetic
field or even lower, less than a milligauss and could easily measure your
magnet many feet from the fluxgate. Being DC, it's easy to get rid of the
power line interference. There is also hall effect devices which has been
mentioned but they are not particularly sensitive. Beyond that, there is a
quantum mechanical device called a "squid" that can measure extremely small
fields like the field from the iron in a single blood cell. These are
probably way beyond what you need or could pay for but it gives you an idea
of the technology available. What are you trying to do?
Bob
 
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:07:15 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:


Ah, flat statements are (almost ;-)) always wrong. What about a
fluxgate senor? Or a reed? Or magnetoresistive (eg. GMR) sensor?
There are probably others I've forgotton
Semi-seriously, you could use a compass and an led-phototransistor
sensor. You might resolve milligauss that way.

John
 
Bob Eldred wrote:
"Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote in message
news:VJadnZKl8qofnp_fRVn-tA@centurytel.net...
If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above
it
could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the
size of an
M&M?

An ordinary inductive coil requires the magnet to be in motion and
the
voltage induced is a function of the number of turns and the rate of
change
of the flux, dphi)/dt. Therefore the speed of a moving magnet is very
important. Practically you might be able to sense the magnet moving a
foot
away or so depending on the number of turns in the coil and the speed
of the
magnet. It is a signal to noise issue and power line interference
(hum)
would limit what you can detect.

However it is possible to detect small stationary magnetic fields
(DC) by
arranging and energizing coils in a device called a flux gate. These
things
can be designed to measure fields as low as 1/1000 of the earths
magnetic
field or even lower, less than a milligauss and could easily measure
your
magnet many feet from the fluxgate. Being DC, it's easy to get rid of
the
power line interference. There is also hall effect devices which has
been
mentioned but they are not particularly sensitive. Beyond that, there
is a
quantum mechanical device called a "squid" that can measure
extremely small
fields like the field from the iron in a single blood cell. These are
probably way beyond what you need or could pay for but it gives you
an idea
of the technology available. What are you trying to do?
Bob

I'm guessing, maybe wrongly that the OP is interested in those vehicle
detection loops burried in the ground at red lights. These sometimes
fail to respond to motorcycles and some people sell magnets that you
can attach to your motorcycle that alegedly allow the coil to see your
motorcycle.

I believe the principal of these coils is a tuned resonant tank that is
detuned by a large hunk of metal. I don't believe that the magnet
helps in this case but there are people out there that will swear that
they do work.

Mark
 
Don Pearce wrote:

A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet.
Dang! Now I have to throw away my chunk of iron glued to a switch!
 
In article <cttnjr$s9a$3@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>,
Gregory L. Hansen <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
[...]
A fluxgate magnetometer (Google search terms) can probably be built easily
enough by the hobbyist. You need a high permeability material like
mumetal, a few solenoids, and electronics.

E.g. http://beale.best.vwh.net/measure/fluxgate/
I think 2 toroids inside two solenoids will work better.


You place a toroid inside a solenoid with its axis at right angle to the
bore of the solenoid. You drive the toroid with an AC current that just
saturates it in each direction. The solenoid coil will develop a voltage
proportional to the external field at twice the drive frequency.

Such a design will have trouble with picking up stray AC fields. If you
place 2 side by side, drive the toriods at 90 degrees to each other and
wire the coils to subtract, you get more than twice the signal and a lot
less pick up.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:52:52 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:

[snip...snip...]
BTW: A good flux gate will detect a cow magnet up to about 100 feet. A
SQUID only improves on this distance by about a factor of 20.
A cow magnet? This would be a magnetized cow, possibly one that has a
large uptake of iron from feeding on ferrous soils? Or a magnet used to
stick a (small) cow to a (large) refrigerator?

....clickety... google ...clickety...

Well, by the Wrinkled Sack of Zeus! I have lead a sheltered life.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
In article <j5m4011nig5kh57qg5jlct9rpq10ale3u9@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:45:05 GMT, the renowned donald@pearce.uk.com
(Don Pearce) wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:41:03 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?


A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet. It is
also the best choice for such a slow moving magnet.

Ah, flat statements are (almost ;-)) always wrong. What about a
fluxgate senor? Or a reed? Or magnetoresistive (eg. GMR) sensor?
There are probably others I've forgotton
Put a solenoid on a crank and spin it around.
--
"Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and win
by experience."
 
Bob Eldred wrote:

There is a
musical instrument called a Theramin where the frequency of an oscillator is
varied by waving ones hand over an antenna. This is beat with another
oscillator producing an audio tone played through an amp and speaker. You
can hear these things in space movies and other places where weird etherial
music is used.
_Good Vibrations_ by the Beach Boys.
 
"Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote in message
news:RKednQIYNc1yCp_fRVn-tQ@centurytel.net...
I am tryning to accomplish "mental exercise". Sometimes I see things and
it
just makes me ponder how to do it.

This "application" could be many, but is similar to RFID I suppose.
Tagging
something, but without identification and a completely passive tag. Could
be
to see if a box is on a pallet, or a dog is in his doghouse.
Easy - just run a cat past the dog house to see if he is home ... (also
counts
as a "cat scan" )
 
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:45:05 GMT, donald@pearce.uk.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:41:03 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?


A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet. It is
also the best choice for such a slow moving magnet.

Or a GMR sensor - more sensitive. NVE and Philips make them.
For ultimate sensitivity, try a fluxgate magnetometer.
 
On 3 Feb 2005 15:03:54 -0800, "Mark" <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:


I believe the principal of these coils is a tuned resonant tank that is
detuned by a large hunk of metal. I don't believe that the magnet
helps in this case but there are people out there that will swear that
they do work.
---
If you believe that you're right and that the people who disagree with
you are wrong, prove that you're right. Get a magnet, demagnetize it,
run some frequency VS proximity tests and then get it magnetized and
run the same tests over again.

--
John Fields
 
If you don't want to mess with coils, think about solid state sensors.

They go, in order of increase of sensitivity:
Hall Effect sensor - GMR sensor - Magnetoresistive sensor - Magnetometer.

Solid State Magnetometer (like the one made by Honeywell) is made around
Magnetoresistive sensor(s) but with well thought signal conditioning which
increases it's range. It will give you 2 - 3 feet range for the magnet you
describe.

You should think in advance what you gonna do about stray targets and false
triggering.

Andrey


Magnetometer.
"Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote in message
news:VJadnZKl8qofnp_fRVn-tA@centurytel.net...
If I had a flat, 2 foot by two foot coil lying flat, how far above it
could
I reasonably expect the detect a rare earth magnet, perhaps the size of an
M&M?
 
In article <tpm601tpir3pg2fq696t6at50jhg8teqki@4ax.com>,
Mike Harrison <mike@whitewing.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:45:05 GMT, donald@pearce.uk.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:41:03 -0600, "Brian" <brian@w3gate.com> wrote:

say it crosses the plane in 2 seconds.

Are there ways of detecting a stationary magnet?


A Hall Effect sensor is the only option for a stationary magnet. It is
also the best choice for such a slow moving magnet.


Or a GMR sensor - more sensitive. NVE and Philips make them.
For ultimate sensitivity, try a fluxgate magnetometer.
No, for the ultimate try a low temperature SQUID. The have a noise of
something like 10fT / sqrt(Hz).


--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
In article <Z8CdnTMCd_7_aJ_fRVn-hQ@comcast.com>,
Mike Fields <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcast.net> wrote:
[...]
Easy - just run a cat past the dog house to see if he is home ... (also
counts
as a "cat scan" )
The reaction depends on the dog. I think feeding the dog radioactive food
and using automatic radiation detector would work better: That would be
Radio-Acitve Dog Automatic Ranging (RADAR)

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
Ken Smith wrote:

I think feeding the dog radioactive food and using automatic
radiation detector would work better: That would be
Radio-Active Dog Automatic Ranging (RADAR)
Those who have tried this have posted glowing reports.
 

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