cheaper power by low tariff battery charging?

[MisterE]

So I heard about a guy who has a fake water heater that was actually a bank
of lead-acid batteries with an inverter. The idea being he gets power for 8
hours a day to charge the batteries and then powers his home from the
inverter, so he gets all his energy at at the cheap 6c tarriff instead of
15c. Apparently he recons it isn't even illegal, since it actually says that
any "Electric Storage Water" device can be connected, and you could argue
the batteries are just that.

Apparently this is very commonly done in buisnesses. Legally they can hook
up anything they want to tarriff 22, because its the same line, they just
pay 7cents instead of 21c/15c by drawing power between 9pm and 7am. Now I
know why some many places have those huge 6kw UPS systems with shelves of
batteries that they can run of for days.

 

[terryc]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:43:17 +1000, MisterE wrote:

Now I
know why some many places have those huge 6kw UPS systems with shelves of
batteries that they can run of for days.

lol, fool, you should have stayed awake during basic maths then you would
have realised how insignificant that amount is.

 

[Bruce Varley]

"MisterE" <MisterE@nimga.com> wrote in message
news:48352413$0$13945$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

So I heard about a guy who has a fake water heater that was actually a
bank of lead-acid batteries with an inverter. The idea being he gets power
for 8 hours a day to charge the batteries and then powers his home from
the inverter, so he gets all his energy at at the cheap 6c tarriff instead
of 15c. Apparently he recons it isn't even illegal, since it actually says
that any "Electric Storage Water" device can be connected, and you could
argue the batteries are just that.

Apparently this is very commonly done in buisnesses. Legally they can hook
up anything they want to tarriff 22, because its the same line, they just
pay 7cents instead of 21c/15c by drawing power between 9pm and 7am. Now I
know why some many places have those huge 6kw UPS systems with shelves of
batteries that they can run of for days.
Economically silly. In fact, UPS systems generally only have battery

capacity for a few hours at most. If they need more time, there's a motor
genset. The purpose of the UPS is purely to avoid a break in the supply and
its effects on the business.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:43:17 +1000, "MisterE" <MisterE@nimga.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

So I heard about a guy who has a fake water heater that was actually a bank
of lead-acid batteries with an inverter. The idea being he gets power for 8
hours a day to charge the batteries and then powers his home from the
inverter, so he gets all his energy at at the cheap 6c tarriff instead of
15c. Apparently he recons it isn't even illegal, since it actually says that
any "Electric Storage Water" device can be connected, and you could argue
the batteries are just that.

Apparently this is very commonly done in buisnesses. Legally they can hook
up anything they want to tarriff 22, because its the same line, they just
pay 7cents instead of 21c/15c by drawing power between 9pm and 7am. Now I
know why some many places have those huge 6kw UPS systems with shelves of
batteries that they can run of for days.

Maybe this idea could be applied to charging electric cars if and when
they become prevalent. A change in the legislation may be necessary
though. Something for the Greens to think about?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[fritz]

MisterE <MisterE@nimga.com> wrote in message news:48352413$0$13945$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

So I heard about a guy who has a fake water heater that was actually a bank
of lead-acid batteries with an inverter. The idea being he gets power for 8
hours a day to charge the batteries and then powers his home from the
inverter, so he gets all his energy at at the cheap 6c tarriff instead of
15c. Apparently he recons it isn't even illegal, since it actually says that
any "Electric Storage Water" device can be connected, and you could argue
the batteries are just that.

Sounds like the kind of Einstein who has an energy polariser in his cold-water
fusion powered car.

The losses involved in charging batteries and then discharging them through
an inverter would wipe out any potential savings. Plus, Einstein would have
to buy and maintain/replace the batteries and buy the inverter.

Apparently this is very commonly done in buisnesses. Legally they can hook
up anything they want to tarriff 22, because its the same line, they just
pay 7cents instead of 21c/15c by drawing power between 9pm and 7am. Now I
know why some many places have those huge 6kw UPS systems with shelves of
batteries that they can run of for days.

Doesn't make sense to save money on off-peak, they are probably just standby
power systems for emergencies.

 

[Mr.T]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:a7eb345cu7h3nfgn1ugcdh2qfp25pl8uuc@4ax.com...

Maybe this idea could be applied to charging electric cars if and when
they become prevalent. A change in the legislation may be necessary
though. Something for the Greens to think about?

Why? Off peak is cheaper mostly because it utilises unused capacity. That
doesn't change no matter what you do with it.

MrT.

 

[Dan]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:4836240e$0$17509$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:a7eb345cu7h3nfgn1ugcdh2qfp25pl8uuc@4ax.com...
Maybe this idea could be applied to charging electric cars if and when
they become prevalent. A change in the legislation may be necessary
though. Something for the Greens to think about?

Why? Off peak is cheaper mostly because it utilises unused capacity. That
doesn't change no matter what you do with it.

Its because they don't have to pull the generators off and on. Companies are
also given huge discounts if they can get their load factor (maximum current
divided by average current) down to a minimum. In same cases companies can
deliberatly waste power to get the average up, and its still cheaper,
because they get a discount factor for having a low load factor! i bet the
greens love that one. You can get charged more for less overall power
because it you are inconsistent in the use and the generators have to come
on and off, which is the real cost. I read a report that said if 50% of our
power came from solar, the remaining power would be charged at nearly 8
times what it is today, just from the exessive cost of having to switch
generators in and out at sunset/sunrise etc. I wonder why it is so
expensive? The power companies were trying to use it as a reason to pay
people less for power they pump into the grid than power they draw out.

 

[terryc]

On Sun, 25 May 2008 10:15:49 +1000, Dan wrote:

Its because they don't have to pull the generators off and on. Companies are
also given huge discounts if they can get their load factor (maximum current
divided by average current) down to a minimum.

Lol. can you give your reference for that?
Sounds like bullshit from some one who doesn't understand what is going
on. Aka generator says you actually draw so much power because of your
bad PF, so we'll charge you that much. Improve it and you'll save money.

 

[rebel]

On Sun, 25 May 2008 10:15:49 +1000, "Dan" <voids@sometwher.world> wrote:

(snippo

I read a report that said if 50% of our
power came from solar, the remaining power would be charged at nearly 8
times what it is today, just from the exessive cost of having to switch
generators in and out at sunset/sunrise etc.

The cost structure is based around the need for capital equipment to be in place
for the peak load. So any off-peak load is a"bonus" of sorts for the generating
body, hence the existence of preferential (aka discounted) off-peak tariffs.

BUT ... peak load is invariably during daylight hours (Mon-Fri at least) and
especially so when aircond loads are present seasonally. So any solar
contribution actually DOES present at the best times to offset the peak and
therefore the size (and cost) of generating infrastructure.

 

[Mr.T]

"rebel" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:jakh341068gkkp0lopkggdc49ddntdabsk@4ax.com...

The cost structure is based around the need for capital equipment to be in
place
for the peak load. So any off-peak load is a"bonus" of sorts for the
generating
body, hence the existence of preferential (aka discounted) off-peak
tariffs.

Well not quite a "bonus" when you are burning coal or gas, (even water
reserves for hydro are finite) but yes many turbines are essentially idle,
and therefore as I already stated, underutilised at those times.
OP nuclear of course would be at almost no additional cost, (just
supervision & maintenance costs) if we had any that is.

BUT ... peak load is invariably during daylight hours (Mon-Fri at least)
and
especially so when aircond loads are present seasonally. So any solar
contribution actually DOES present at the best times to offset the peak
and
therefore the size (and cost) of generating infrastructure.

Not to mention wind is generally stronger during the day too.

MrT.