Capacitance of Double-sided PC Board

John Fields · Aug 17, 2003

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:05:26 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:55:19 -0700, "John Fields" <jfields@texas.net
Gave us:

Sure he could. He could be like you, a mean spirited, ignorant little dick
with an axe to grind, but he isn't and he's contributed a lot more here than
you ever have, (or will...) so what the fuck's the matter with you anyway?
Do you need attention so badly that you're willing to try to destroy the
fragile peace that's existed here for a while now just so you'll be noticed?
If that's your game then you've already lost. Be advised that you've been
noticed. Now go away.

I'm sorry, dipshit... Did his insults not warrant getting the same
thing back in his face? I think that they did.
---

If you've been as annoying as he says you are, (and from what I've read
of yours, you are) then you deserve a little slap, which is all he gave
you. Aside from your error when doing the English to metric conversion,
your question as to whether most PCB's are made with G-10 instead of
FR-4 seems to indicate that you didn't know that the use of FR-4 for
PCB's is pretty much universal as the glass-epoxy laminate of choice.
Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you knew it all
along and that you people are still using G-10. Perhaps you are, but I
suspect if you are it's for structural parts, not PCB's. Check with
your PCB vendor(s) to find out what they're _actually_ using and you
might be in for a surprise. If you _are_ still using G-10, why?

--
John Fields

Fred Bloggs · Aug 17, 2003

John Fields wrote:

---
If you've been as annoying as he says you are, (and from what I've read
of yours, you are) then you deserve a little slap, which is all he gave
you. Aside from your error when doing the English to metric conversion,
your question as to whether most PCB's are made with G-10 instead of
FR-4 seems to indicate that you didn't know that the use of FR-4 for
PCB's is pretty much universal as the glass-epoxy laminate of choice.
Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you knew it all
along and that you people are still using G-10. Perhaps you are, but I
suspect if you are it's for structural parts, not PCB's. Check with
your PCB vendor(s) to find out what they're _actually_ using and you
might be in for a surprise. If you _are_ still using G-10, why?

I think FR-4 is G-10 with flame-retardant added, and they are
electrically equivalent.

Spehro Pefhany · Aug 17, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 08:39:05 -0500, the renowned John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:00:31 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

A working class hero is something to be, but you are still fucking
peasants, as far as *I* can see. --John Lennon 1970

---
He's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney, 1965

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row

Bob Dylan, 1965

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

EN · Aug 17, 2003

DarkMatter wrote:

We use it, unmasked, for HV applications. All the time. I know the
difference.

Now that you mentioned it, and my memory gets joggled, yes for high
voltage. In fact ...
ahhh the big printing presses that newspapers use. The 3 armed spider
that holds the 4ft
diameter paper rolls that wt. 2500 lb.s If you take the cover off, you
will see a G10 disk
that is about 3 1/2' in diameter. There are about 24 slip ring traces
that are 3/8" wide?
That disk is light green G10. And there's 120 or 220 volts going to the
slip rings along w/
other servo signals.
The problem with growing old, you can't remember s#*t.

Watson A.Name - 'Watt Sun · Aug 17, 2003

In article <sf4vjv4dkcvg60uf14pulrb0e32le7ruls@4ax.com>,
speff@interlog.com mentioned...

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 08:39:05 -0500, the renowned John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:00:31 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

A working class hero is something to be, but you are still fucking
peasants, as far as *I* can see. --John Lennon 1970

---
He's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney, 1965

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row

Bob Dylan, 1965

That's one of his best: Desolation Row.
I remember it well. I built my first power amps to drive the speakers
to listen to that and many other albums. Last wkend PBS had a Beach
Boys concert in England, filmed back when they were all still alive.
Brought back some fond memories.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
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@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

Mark Jones · Aug 17, 2003

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 08:39:05 -0500, the renowned John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:00:31 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

A working class hero is something to be, but you are still
fucking peasants, as far as *I* can see. --John Lennon 1970

---
He's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney, 1965

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row

Bob Dylan, 1965

"You just stood there screaming,
fearing no-one was listening to you
they say the empty can rattles the most
the sound of your own voice must soothe you
hearing only what you want to hear
and knowing only what you've heard
you - you're smothered in tradegy
and you're off to save the world...

Misery, you insist that the weight of the world
should be on your shoulders!
Misery - there's much more to life than what you see
my friend of misery...

You still stood there screaming?!
no-one caring about these words you tell
my friend before your voice is gone...
one man's fun is another's hell
these times are sent to try man's souls
but something's wrong with all you see
you - you'll take it on all yourself
remember - misery loves company..."

"My Friend of Misery", Metallica, 1991

John Larkin · Aug 17, 2003

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:02:25 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:27:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> Gave us:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:43:15 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

We still use G10 everyday without the UL treatment.

If you are still calling out G10 on PCB fab drawings, you are likely
actually getting FR-4; it meets all the performance specs of G10, but
just uses a flame-supressing additive in the epoxy. Most PCB houses
stock FR4, since they often have to make UL boards. Pure (non-bromine)
G10 is basicly obsolete in the PCB industry. It is still sometimes
used for very thin boards in consumer applications (specifically
watches) because it punches a bit better than FR-4.

John

We use it, unmasked, for HV applications. All the time. I know the
difference.

That's interesting. Do you have PC houses that furnish G10 without the
flame supressor? What's better about it for HV? Any regulatory
problems?

John

Tim Williams · Aug 17, 2003

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:uk0vjvouvhmdke6n0gljo31nh3rjifhas2@4ax.com...

BTW, that flasher looks like it had a little ethanol behind it, no?

Must be the wine he sometimes puts in the food.

Tim

--
In the immortal words of Ned Flanders: "No foot longs!"
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Jim Thompson · Aug 17, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:22:39 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:uk0vjvouvhmdke6n0gljo31nh3rjifhas2@4ax.com...
BTW, that flasher looks like it had a little ethanol behind it, no?

Must be the wine he sometimes puts in the food.

Tim

480)460-2350 | |
| Jim-T@analog_invalid.com Fax

John Fields · Aug 17, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:38:08 -0700, Jim Thompson
<Jim-T@analog_invalid.com> wrote:

Whenever I stops working I starts drinking ;-)

---
Work is the curse of the drinking man?^)

--
John Fields

Jim Thompson · Aug 17, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:09:34 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:38:08 -0700, Jim Thompson
Jim-T@analog_invalid.com> wrote:

Whenever I stops working I starts drinking ;-)

---
Work is the curse of the drinking man?^)

480)460-2350 | |
| Jim-T@analog_invalid.com Fax

John Fields · Aug 18, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 16:22:56 -0700, Jim Thompson
<Jim-T@analog_invalid.com> wrote:

Wasn't it your Uncle W.C. who said, "Never trust a man who doesn't
drink" ?
---

Ah, yessss...

If it's true I guess you and I can be trusted _completely_!

--
John Fields

DarkMatter · Aug 18, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you knew it all
along and that you people are still using G-10.

Bullshit, jackass. What I said was that WE use it all the time. We
do, everyday. YOU are having reading comprehension skill problems...
again.

DarkMatter · Aug 18, 2003

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Perhaps you are, but I
suspect if you are it's for structural parts, not PCB's. Check with
your PCB vendor(s) to find out what they're _actually_ using and you
might be in for a surprise. If you _are_ still using G-10, why?

You ain't real bright, are ya boy? I said that we do use it, and we
do. I don't need some wuss like you telling me what we use, or
wondering why we do. It seems that you are the one that has been
surprised.

John Fields · Aug 18, 2003

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:45:13 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you knew it all
along and that you people are still using G-10.

Bullshit, jackass. What I said was that WE use it all the time. We
do, everyday. YOU are having reading comprehension skill problems...
again.

---
Speaking of reading comprehension problems, git, when you say "we" and I
say "you people", the reference is to the same set.

For example, if you were to write, "We are a bunch of unmitigated
morons." and I were to write, "You people are a bunch of unmitigated
morons." We would be talking about the same group of morons. The
assumption being made, of course, is that when you write "we" I am
specifically excluded from the set comprising you and the rest of the
morons you are referring to.

--
John Fields

John Fields · Aug 18, 2003

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:47:21 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Perhaps you are, but I
suspect if you are it's for structural parts, not PCB's. Check with
your PCB vendor(s) to find out what they're _actually_ using and you
might be in for a surprise. If you _are_ still using G-10, why?

You ain't real bright, are ya boy? I said that we do use it, and we
do. I don't need some wuss like you telling me what we use, or
wondering why we do. It seems that you are the one that has been
surprised.

---
Surprised? Indeed not! In addition to being sophomoric you are
perfectly predictable.

I could, for example, describe your exact response to this post. I
won't, however, because then you would act in a way different from what
I predicted just to prove me wrong. Right?

--
John Fields

DarkMatter · Aug 19, 2003

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:06:45 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:45:13 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you knew it all
along and that you people are still using G-10.

Bullshit, jackass. What I said was that WE use it all the time. We
do, everyday. YOU are having reading comprehension skill problems...
again.

Speaking of reading comprehension problems, git, when you say "we" and I
say "you people", the reference is to the same set.

You goddamned retarded bastard. The part I objected to is your
retarded claim "no that you've found out..."

You are one retarded mother fucker, and I'd call your ass out on the
street for a duel in a heartbeat, because presumptuous scum like you
deserves a good dirt nap.

So, dipshit, If I say we use it all the time, that does NOT mean
"now that I know" some bullshit that you think I didn't know, dig?

You retarded fucking putz. YOU are the fucking "git", fuckhead!

You're a goddamned retard. You spout bullshit, and then try to
start even more when called on it. Fuck you, you retarded, know
nothing, presumptuous FUCK!

DarkMatter · Aug 19, 2003

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:20:51 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Surprised? Indeed not! In addition to being sophomoric you are
perfectly predictable.

I could, for example, describe your exact response to this post. I
won't, however, because then you would act in a way different from what
I predicted just to prove me wrong. Right?

Why don't you consult with a psychologist to find out just how
stupid your post here is?

You're a goddamned retard, at best.

Mark Jones · Aug 19, 2003

DarkMatter wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:06:45 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:45:13 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:06:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Now that you've found out, you seem to be saying that you
knew it all along and that you people are still using G-10.

Bullshit, jackass. What I said was that WE use it all the
time. We do, everyday. YOU are having reading
comprehension skill problems... again.

Speaking of reading comprehension problems, git, when you say
"we" and I say "you people", the reference is to the same
set.

You goddamned retarded bastard. The part I objected to is
your retarded claim "no that you've found out..."

You are one retarded mother fucker, and I'd call your ass
out on the street for a duel in a heartbeat, because
presumptuous scum like you deserves a good dirt nap.

So, dipshit, If I say we use it all the time, that does NOT
mean "now that I know" some bullshit that you think I didn't
know, dig?

You retarded fucking putz. YOU are the fucking "git",
fuckhead!

You're a goddamned retard. You spout bullshit, and then try
to
start even more when called on it. Fuck you, you retarded,
know nothing, presumptuous FUCK!

Whoa there fella, forget your Terrets medication today?

John Fields · Aug 19, 2003

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:10:58 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:20:51 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> Gave us:

Surprised? Indeed not! In addition to being sophomoric you are
perfectly predictable.

I could, for example, describe your exact response to this post. I
won't, however, because then you would act in a way different from what
I predicted just to prove me wrong. Right?

Why don't you consult with a psychologist to find out just how
stupid your post here is?

You're a goddamned retard, at best.
---

That's exactly what I thought you'd say.

--
John Fields

Capacitance of Double-sided PC Board

John Fields

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Fred Bloggs

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EN

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