Buying a TV

[terryc]

The ~20 year old CRt Tv has finally died after three days of death throes,
so we figure it is time to go and buy a replacement.

Looking for cluebies on what to look for, extras worth getting, etc.

Is it just a matter of size Vs price and choose the colour variation you
like?

The old TV was just analog (VHF &UHF) with 3 sets in inputs (used 2
occassionaly but rarely VHS/DVd & CMOS) and Teletext( totally useless here).

So, is it worth getting digital tuner inbuilt?
HD worth it?

what gives with the `080p & 100Hz labels on some of the shop junk mail?
Is it just DPI and Freq (as in higher is better like monitor?

T.I.A.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"terryc" <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
newsan.2008.09.15.02.23.09.500276@woa.com.au...

The ~20 year old CRt Tv has finally died after three days of death throes,
so we figure it is time to go and buy a replacement.

Looking for cluebies on what to look for, extras worth getting, etc.

Is it just a matter of size Vs price and choose the colour variation you
like?

The old TV was just analog (VHF &UHF) with 3 sets in inputs (used 2
occassionaly but rarely VHS/DVd & CMOS) and Teletext( totally useless
here).

So, is it worth getting digital tuner inbuilt?
HD worth it?

what gives with the `080p & 100Hz labels on some of the shop junk mail?
Is it just DPI and Freq (as in higher is better like monitor?

**Buy a decent, used CRT set. It is possible to pick up some really
excellent sets, for bugger-all money, now the nongs are buying plasmas and
LCDs as fast as they can be manufactured. Reliability of most modern LCDs
and plasmas is appalling. Reliability of most CRT sets is excellent. Look
for a decent set from Loewe (my favourite), Sony, Panasonic and others.

Whack a cheap 'n cheerful HD STB on it and you'll be sweet. BTW: The
advantage of the HD box is that you get more channels. Additionally, you'll
pick up a small visual improvement. For me that was the biggest surprise. I
didn't expect any visual improvement over a SD box on a CRT TV.

Don't bother with inbuilt HD tuner (unless you're buying a new TV), since
they are very inexpensive.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sep 15, 12:23 pm, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

The ~20 year old CRt Tv has finally died after three days of death throes,
so we figure it is time to go and buy a replacement.

Looking for cluebies on what to look for, extras worth getting, etc.

Is it just a matter of size Vs price and choose the colour variation you
like?

The old TV was just analog (VHF &UHF) with 3 sets in inputs (used 2
occassionaly but rarely VHS/DVd & CMOS) and Teletext( totally useless here).

So, is it worth getting digital tuner inbuilt?

I thought they almost ALL had in-built tuners these days?
When I bought an LCD and Plasma about 18 months ago, you paid a LOT
extra for the inbuilt HD tuner, so I opted for external boxes.
You most likely won't have much of a choice here, unless you buy an
older model.

HD worth it?

YES!
Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if your screen is "true" HD or not, the HD tuner gives
you some extra channels and MUCH better picture quality. It's not just
the number of pixels, it's the bandwidth/MPEG compression. Try
watching fast action sport on SD, it's truly awful due to excess MPEG
compression, you can't even see the ball when it moves for example.
The exact same source material on HD is great.
For normal material there is less difference, but HD is still better.

There is still some price difference between true HD 1920x1080 and the
lesser 1366/1024x768. 1366/1024 still looks terrific, but if you can
afford it, get true HD.

what gives with the `080p & 100Hz labels on some of the shop junk mail?
Is it just DPI and Freq (as in higher is better like monitor?

1080p is "True HD", this is what you pay the difference in price for.
100Hz is just a higher refresh rate which is good.

Dave.

 

[terryc]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:36:49 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:

There is still some price difference between true HD 1920x1080 and the
lesser 1366/1024x768. 1366/1024 still looks terrific, but if you can
afford it, get true HD.

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

It just that based on the snail food in the letter box, it doesn't look
like I'll get much change out of $2K. Unfortunately, tonights experiment
of "oh look, we can watch all the ABC programs online, so lets not buy
another TV" seems to have failed.

So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.

 

[terryc]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:47:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Buy a decent, used CRT set.

Can you recommend any places to look?

Reliability of most modern LCDs and plasmas is appalling.

That is worrying.

Reliability of most CRT sets is
excellent. Look for a decent set from Loewe (my favourite), Sony,
Panasonic and others.

The set in question is a Sony CPP2186TX. Nice simple single board that
looks repairable, if I can just work out what is "broken". Not much help
from search engines there.

1. Retursn to standby after couple of seconds. Before that stage,
2. Picture would go but still have sounds (50%+). could be fixed (mostly)
by turning off then one again.
3. Trimmed picture to HD format. First noticed this on TVS, then it
spread to other channels. At time I thought it was just TVS's source
material.

 

[Bob Parker]

On 16/09/2008 00:34 terryc wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:47:40 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Buy a decent, used CRT set.

Can you recommend any places to look?

Reliability of most modern LCDs and plasmas is appalling.

That is worrying.

Reliability of most CRT sets is
excellent. Look for a decent set from Loewe (my favourite), Sony,
Panasonic and others.

The set in question is a Sony CPP2186TX. Nice simple single board that
looks repairable, if I can just work out what is "broken". Not much help
from search engines there.

1. Retursn to standby after couple of seconds. Before that stage,
2. Picture would go but still have sounds (50%+). could be fixed (mostly)
by turning off then one again.
3. Trimmed picture to HD format. First noticed this on TVS, then it
spread to other channels. At time I thought it was just TVS's source
material.

I know I keep saying this, but the first thing to check with a weird
fault like this is the condition of the electrolytic caps, mainly in the
power supply. If they're all OK, then you could get more deeply into the
problem (or maybe replace the TV).

BTW, I did a Google search for 'CPP2186TX' and most of the few
results I got kept saying 'Sanyo'.

 

[atec77]

terryc wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:36:49 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:


There is still some price difference between true HD 1920x1080 and the
lesser 1366/1024x768. 1366/1024 still looks terrific, but if you can
afford it, get true HD.

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

It just that based on the snail food in the letter box, it doesn't look
like I'll get much change out of $2K. Unfortunately, tonights experiment
of "oh look, we can watch all the ABC programs online, so lets not buy
another TV" seems to have failed.

So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.
If you just want a telly then a conia in 42" from Clive petters with

built in tuner and hd ready.. should be under $900.00

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sep 16, 12:26 am, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:36:49 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:
There is still some price difference between true HD 1920x1080 and the
lesser 1366/1024x768. 1366/1024 still looks terrific, but if you can
afford it, get true HD.

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

It just that based on the snail food in the letter box, it doesn't look
like I'll get much change out of $2K. Unfortunately, tonights experiment
of "oh look, we can watch all the ABC programs online, so lets not buy
another TV" seems to have failed.

So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.

If money is an issue then go for either a 1024x768 or 1366x768 "HD
ready" TV.
You can get a top brand name one of those for the price of a true HD
cheapie.
I'd go for the better brand myself. No point having a cheapie brand
True HD set if you don't plan on taking advantage of true HD material
(e.g. Blu-Ray) within say the next 5 years, which is the likely life a
cheapie brand.
True HD on TV usually isn't that flash, a 1366x768 set looks just
fine.
So many people get sucked into feature creep and paying higher prices
for big screen TV's.

Also, what size are you looking at?

32" have some nice price points, and they are all LCD's.
Larger than that you have the choice of Plasma or LCD.
Plasma is better as a "CRT replacement" in terms of watching TV in a
dark room. But if you have a brightly lit room LCD is far superior.

Other functionality also may come into consideration. I couldn't live
without the pivot stand on my Sony LCD in the living room for example.
So handy to be able to turn the screen orientation. I don't need that
in the main lounge room though.

Dave.

 

[Davo]

terryc wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:36:49 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:


There is still some price difference between true HD 1920x1080 and the
lesser 1366/1024x768. 1366/1024 still looks terrific, but if you can
afford it, get true HD.

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

It just that based on the snail food in the letter box, it doesn't look
like I'll get much change out of $2K. Unfortunately, tonights experiment
of "oh look, we can watch all the ABC programs online, so lets not buy
another TV" seems to have failed.

So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.

I was never a TV watcher so I never really bothered about buying a good
TV, but recently as a bit of a present to myself I bought a Panasonic
Full HD TV. It was on special for about $1800. I eventually got to the
shop late on a Friday and got the last one they had, a 42 inch plasma.
Since then I have become an avid TV watcher. The images are really
sharp, the colour is vivid and the sound is good too.
Since I bought it I've watched the Tour de France and the Olympics, not
to mention the more normal shows.
Do yourself a favour and spend the money on a good quality Full HD TV.
You won't regret it. There is no comparison between the "old" tv and the
new, it's just so much better.

 

[terryc]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:17:03 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:

True HD on TV usually isn't that flash, a 1366x768 set looks just fine.

The problem is that most really look crap*. There was a definite
improvement in true Hd (1920x1080), but all seemed to have quirks at
different times**.

After visitng 3 local shops yesterday, we are looking at a
Samsung 550(?) 81cm/32" 1920x1080, 5ms for $1,289.

We probably would have walked out with it, but we went shopping for
else first and the ready cash went there. Well, actually, CFO said we
need a new mattress and a matress shop was beside the first place we
were going to and we went there first. Now,if I can just get her to play
the same to & froing as she did in the mattress shop(50% off finally),
we should get it or a better one at a reasonable price.

Actualy, by the time I have visited three shops, I had a better
nderstanding of the questions I should be asking when I^hwe*** go back to
finally choose.

Do people take in their own DVD's to play when choosing them?

Other functionality also may come into consideration.

Naah, connections are my interest, aka how many things (esp old) can I
plug into it. The CFO will probably ask "does it come in blue?"


* The CFO is speech trained and continually comments on badly produced
stuff that isn't voice-vision synced properly.

** What is the story with modern CRT TV's. They all look crap with the pictures looking lie a
collection of little dots. Is this just because they are trying to show a
digital signal on them?

*** no way am I making the final decision.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:03:12 +1000, atec77 wrote:

So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.
If you just want a telly then a conia in 42" from Clive petters with built
in tuner and hd ready.. should be under $900.00

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind as a backup. They are 10kms away and we
have at least 5 outlets here in the bulk warehouse strip before I look
further.

Dick Quinn/good Guys has a nice long wall of TVs to compare, but are price
lousy. Then there is Bing Lee, who negotiates well and gets most of our
business and if I can find where Betta Electrical has relocated, then I'll
go there again as they are also good on price.

Then there is Hardly Normal and his wife Domayne if I have too much time
and money, before I even do the main street or either of the two Malls.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:47:17 +1000, Bob Parker wrote:

I know I keep saying this, but the first thing to check with a weird
fault like this is the condition of the electrolytic caps, mainly in the
power supply. If they're all OK, then you could get more deeply into the
problem (or maybe replace the TV).

Thanks will do. The CFO has decided that it "needs replacement" and
didn't want to pay $45 to the local guy for a repair quote, so I'm free to
play around with it now. The main/only board comes out in one piece quite
nicely, so I can pt the spotlight on it.

BTW, I did a Google search for 'CPP2186TX' and most of the few
results I got kept saying 'Sanyo'.

My mistake. You're correct.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:47:17 +1000, Bob Parker wrote:

I know I keep saying this, but the first thing to check with a weird
fault like this is the condition of the electrolytic caps, mainly in the
power supply. If they're all OK, then you could get more deeply into the
problem (or maybe replace the TV).

Had a look and nothing that I could see in the exploded, ballooned or
similar line. The only odd one was a 220uF 160V electrolytic that looked
like it had pissed it pants and was sitting in a ring of brown stuff.

Defintely wasn't silicon (clearor grey) used elsewhere on the board.
Thought it might have been glue to hold that cp in place ( of 1
tallest/2nd biggest), but the stuff is smear and doesn't appear anyywhere
else, except a streak across a heat sink for a transistor in another
quarter of the board. Scrapped off okay.

I will see if I have one in the "collection" and replace it.

The only other clue I can offer is that this Tv was 3' away from a
slow combustion heater and probably suffered from light ash
deposits over the years. Theflyback area seams the have a dirty
coating that can probably benefit from a clean up.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:05:34 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:

Congrats, you've fallen into the HD trap.

Probably. The bottom line is that the other half thought they were all
crappy and despite her keeness to buy on the day, she is now prepared
to wait for a while.

Do people take in their own DVD's to play when choosing them?

I've seen people do that, but really, it's splitting hairs on name brand
sets.

So what are the names that are good now?
Sanyo, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonc, & Phillips are what crosses my mind and
gets a tick, but given this is modern electronics, anyone of them could be
pushing a crappy line.

I found that in the end one set always stands out as the only real
choice due to price, features, physical looks, usability etc. There will
be people who disagree, but good picture quality is a given with name
brand sets.

To put it in perspective, this is a first buy and like a lot of things,
we'll learn what we really want for the next one. Too many considerations
just end up a point in all directions. As I've indicated, I've done the
first tyre kicking and worked out a little bit of what to look for next
roll through. As far as I'm concerned, it will come down to my okay on a
few models and CFO can choose which she prefers. She is the one who finds
F2A TV interesting.

You don't care about how well the remote works,

99% will be off & on and channel change.

how the menus work, how
fast the channels change, what the standby consumption is,

Thanks for that tip.

if the screen can pivot etc?
Nope. Although I can tell the young cat is going to be pissed as LCDs

are so much slimmer, it will not be able to reach down from the top and
attack people on the screen.

You saw a CRT in a shop?

Yep, almost all in chrome, unless they are making LCD's with the same
depth and back shape as CRT's.

 

[Ross Vumbaca]

Hi,

terryc wrote:

So what are the names that are good now?
Sanyo, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonc, & Phillips are what crosses my mind and
gets a tick, but given this is modern electronics, anyone of them could be
pushing a crappy line.

If you're looking at Plasma, you can also consider Pioneer. Their RRPs
are very high, but the "street price" can be quite reasonable, depending
on what you're looking for, and where you go. Without getting into any
sort of brand-war, a lot of 'research' and my own visual comparisons
leads me to think that Pioneer produce some of the better Plasma sets.
Note I'm only talking about Plasma here.

Regards,

Ross..

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sep 17, 11:22 am, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:03:12 +1000, atec77 wrote:
So Tuesday looks like TV shopping day.
If you just want a telly then a conia in 42" from Clive petters with built
in tuner and hd ready.. should be under $900.00

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind as a backup. They are 10kms away and we
have at least 5 outlets here in the bulk warehouse strip before I look
further.

Dick Quinn/good Guys has a nice long wall of TVs to compare, but are price

Good Guys take 10% off the ticket price "for cash" as standard. You
can haggle more.

Ask Tricky Dick's if it comes with a free porn movie :->

Then there is Hardly Normal and his wife Domayne if I have too much time
and money, before I even do the main street or either of the two Malls.

Hardly Normals will usually price match anyone.
For our Sony LCD we found the same one at both JB Hi-Fi and Harvey's.
JB's wouldn't budge so we went to Harvey's and gave them a bogus low
JB figure, they "price matched" no problem.

Dave.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:52:43 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:

Dick Quinn/good Guys has a nice long wall of TVs to compare, but are
price

Good Guys take 10% off the ticket price "for cash" as standard. You can
haggle more.

The computer guy seems willing (18% for cash and existing customer for some small stuff
yesterday), but the LCD guys (3) didn't even want to
talk to me until they probably decided to see if they could move me (only
customer) on or something. I have tried haggling before but they can not
be on bonuses out our way. Next time, I'm going to sit in their sofa and
watch the complete video for their top of the line model (~$5k) and then
ask if they have one for $200.

We'll probably go there for a better final offer before we buy. I've
always found it handy to let the opposition tell you what is wrong with
your intended purchase {, but it really depends on whether they are
hungry for business or have plenty of customers that will just turn up and
shell out the asking price.

Hardly Normals will usually price match anyone. For our Sony LCD we
found the same one at both JB Hi-Fi and Harvey's. JB's wouldn't budge so
we went to Harvey's and gave them a bogus low JB figure, they "price
matched" no problem.

I've priced JBs on other stuff, but they start too high in my books to be
worth visitng. Our JB is in a mall and no one there is keen to give a
good discount as their books get malled each month anyway.

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sep 17, 11:15 am, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:17:03 -0700, David L. Jones wrote:
True HD on TV usually isn't that flash, a 1366x768 set looks just fine.

The problem is that most really look crap*. There was a definite
improvement in true Hd (1920x1080), but all seemed to have quirks at
different times**.

Congrats, you've fallen into the HD trap.

After visitng 3 local shops yesterday, we are looking at a
Samsung 550(?) 81cm/32" 1920x1080, 5ms for $1,289.

Do people take in their own DVD's to play when choosing them?

I've seen people do that, but really, it's splitting hairs on name
brand sets.

I found that in the end one set always stands out as the only real
choice due to price, features, physical looks, usability etc. There
will be people who disagree, but good picture quality is a given with
name brand sets.

Other functionality also may come into consideration.

Naah, connections are my interest

You sure about that?
You don't care about how well the remote works, how the menus work,
how fast the channels change, what the standby consumption is, if the
screen can pivot etc?
I find the most important things are the day-to-day usability of the
set. Get one with an annoying quirk and you'll forever regret it.

aka how many things (esp old) can I
plug into it. The CFO will probably ask "does it come in blue?"

* The CFO is speech trained and continually comments on badly produced
stuff that isn't voice-vision synced properly.

** What is the story with modern CRT TV's. They all look crap with the pictures looking lie a
collection of little dots. Is this just because they are trying to show a
digital signal on them?

You saw a CRT in a shop?

Dave.

 

[Bob Parker]

On 17/09/2008 12:39 terryc wrote:

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:47:17 +1000, Bob Parker wrote:

I know I keep saying this, but the first thing to check with a weird
fault like this is the condition of the electrolytic caps, mainly in the
power supply. If they're all OK, then you could get more deeply into the
problem (or maybe replace the TV).

Had a look and nothing that I could see in the exploded, ballooned or
similar line. The only odd one was a 220uF 160V electrolytic that looked
like it had pissed it pants and was sitting in a ring of brown stuff.

Defintely wasn't silicon (clearor grey) used elsewhere on the board.
Thought it might have been glue to hold that cp in place ( of 1
tallest/2nd biggest), but the stuff is smear and doesn't appear anyywhere
else, except a streak across a heat sink for a transistor in another
quarter of the board. Scrapped off okay.

I will see if I have one in the "collection" and replace it.

The only other clue I can offer is that this Tv was 3' away from a
slow combustion heater and probably suffered from light ash
deposits over the years. Theflyback area seams the have a dirty
coating that can probably benefit from a clean up.

It's sounding like the simplest solution is to just replace the TV.
Good luck.

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sep 17, 2:08 pm, terryc <newssixspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

So what are the names that are good now?
Sanyo, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonc, & Phillips are what crosses my mind and
gets a tick, but given this is modern electronics, anyone of them could be
pushing a crappy line.

The Sony Bravia series are pretty much the ducks guts, and IMO some of
the (aesthetically) best looking sets.
They have price/performance variations in the line but all are
excellent.
Watch the X series Bravia though (top of the line), annoying quirk on
the menu system with favourite channels.
Samsung are rated well.
Philips are rated well.
Panasonic are rated very well, and #1 in Plasma.
Heard not so great things about LG.

You don't care about how well the remote works,

99% will be off & on and channel change.

Ah, you obviously haven't played with digital TV then!

You have the guide information for starters, all brands work and
display info differently.

Favourites are a very important feature. Scan in the channels when you
get the set and you end up with something like 30-40 channels with
lots of duplicates, want to switch through every one of them? (you may
not want to delete them either)
With digital "just switching channels" has it's own new challenges.
With HD you'll likely end up with 2 of every channel, just in case
extra shows are on the "other channel", navigating is thus slower than
the old 2-7-9-10-28.

Also, how does the digital tuner handle garbled data - does it lock up
the screen, does it produce annoying audio pops, does it recover
quickly...

Once you get into digital you'll find a bunch of small things that
have the potential to annoy the crap out of you.

how the menus work, how
fast the channels change, what the standby consumption is,

Thanks for that tip.

As a reference, my Sony Bravia S series is superb, with only 0.3W in
standby

Dave.