Buying a Radar Detector 11 bands ? What the hell ???l

[reckeless_homicidal_mania]

I thought I will buy a radar detector . I go look in Target and what the
bloody hell
11 bands ..is it a Cable TV or a radar detector ?

Where do these 11 bands come from ? How do these detectors even work ?
Don't tell me they send out 11 different alert tones (as if I can decode
them at 95 mile an hour) ?

Is it even worth buying one ?

Looks like you are better off obeying speed limits & using other tactics
like go with the flow of traffic etc

Also I always wondered ..... if the radar gun transmits a PCM signal can it
not be made
undetectable to detectors ? If the detector cannot decode the transmitted
code how can it
detect it ? Why is the police not using it ? If the police gun can randomly
preset & vary the code of the
PCM signal , would it not render it undetectable by a detector (unless the
detector has matching PCM
code to receive it ..............am I missing something here ) ? Of course
the transmitting gun can detect the bounced back signal as it would be
synched to transmitted code.

 

[reckeless_homicidal_mania]

"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@infernosoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-C0D667.14281819092004@typhoon.sonic.net...

You don't have to demodulate the radar signal to know that it is a radar
signal.

Ummmmmmmmm.......interesting.
Then only the simple detection of the carrier frequncey (aka the "modulated"
freqyency) is a
sufficient condition and the "modulating" frequency is irrelevant ?

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:41:21 -0400,
"reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver"
<_unsafe_at_any_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@infernosoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-C0D667.14281819092004@typhoon.sonic.net...

You don't have to demodulate the radar signal to know that it is a radar
signal.

Ummmmmmmmm.......interesting.
Then only the simple detection of the carrier frequncey (aka the "modulated"
freqyency) is a
sufficient condition and the "modulating" frequency is irrelevant ?

There is no modulating frequency... speed radar is Doppler.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Bownse]

reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver wrote:

I thought I will buy a radar detector . I go look in Target

Oopsie! Mistake #1. You don't buy your audio equipment from a place that
sells dishwashers. Don't buy your radar detector from a place that sells
women's cut rate undies.

http://www.valentine1.com/

--

Mark Johnson, Ft Worth; IBA#288; CM#1; EOB, DoD#2021; LPR#50
2003 FJR1300 "E˛"; http://www.bikes-n-spikes.org

 

[Timberwoof]

In article <2r6co0F171025U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver"
<_unsafe_at_any_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@infernosoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-C0D667.14281819092004@typhoon.sonic.net...

You don't have to demodulate the radar signal to know that it is a radar
signal.

Ummmmmmmmm.......interesting. Then only the simple detection of the carrier
frequncey (aka the "modulated" freqyency) is a sufficient condition and the
"modulating" frequency is irrelevant ?

What relevant information does the modulation give you? Who else uses radar on
public streets and highways? If you're being lit up by something other than a
cop, you either don't care or you're in way deeper doodoo than with just a cop.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:43:59 GMT, Timberwoof
<timberwoof.spam@infernosoft.com> wrote:

In article <fbvrk09io8qug5q8aaopa7tj5r5nq7uqm3@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[snip]
There is no modulating frequency... speed radar is Doppler.

The radar being transmitted is modulated at some other, more manageable
frequency. The receiver part of the radar gun detects that second frequency and
compares it to the original. So yes, Doppler shift is involved, but it's
technically easier to detect it on a modulated signal.

A CW signal, usually generated by a Gunn-type LO, is sent out.

Reflected signal is Doppler frequency shifted, and is mixed with LO to
get Doppler frequency shift... measured with a counter.

There IS NO MODULATION.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Scott en Aztlán]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:44:28 -0400,
"reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver"
<_unsafe_at_any_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

I thought I will buy a radar detector . I go look in Target and what the
bloody hell
11 bands ..is it a Cable TV or a radar detector ?

LOL!!!

I guess if a 2 or 3 band placebo is good, an 11 band placebo is even
better!!

Where do these 11 bands come from ?

Somebody's vivid imagination, no doubt...

--
Sloth Kills!
http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver"
<_unsafe_at_any_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2r62cbF16ql3jU1@uni-berlin.de...

I thought I will buy a radar detector . I go look in Target and what
the
bloody hell
11 bands ..is it a Cable TV or a radar detector ?

Where do these 11 bands come from ? How do these detectors even work ?
Don't tell me they send out 11 different alert tones (as if I can
decode
them at 95 mile an hour) ?

Is it even worth buying one ?

Looks like you are better off obeying speed limits & using other
tactics
like go with the flow of traffic etc

Also I always wondered ..... if the radar gun transmits a PCM signal
can it
not be made
undetectable to detectors ? If the detector cannot decode the
transmitted
code how can it
detect it ? Why is the police not using it ? If the police gun can
randomly
preset & vary the code of the
PCM signal , would it not render it undetectable by a detector
(unless the
detector has matching PCM
code to receive it ..............am I missing something here ) ? Of
course
the transmitting gun can detect the bounced back signal as it would be
synched to transmitted code.

What's with all the spaces ?

I know that one band is for Laser or LIDAR.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Starwolf" <Not Today Eh?> wrote in message news:drCdnXHye-E7RNDcRVn-
[snip]

Valentine One is the top unit on the market. http://www.valentine1.com
The
Escort line is somewhat less in capability, but may be adequate for
your
needs. http://www.escortradar.com/

When all you speed jockeys find the speed traps, do us a favor and
report them to this URL. http://www.speedtrap.org/

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:44:28 -0400, "reckeless_homicidal_maniac_highway_terrorist_driver"
<_unsafe_at_any_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:

I thought I will buy a radar detector . I go look in Target and what the
bloody hell
11 bands ..is it a Cable TV or a radar detector ?

Where do these 11 bands come from ?
Different bands are used for different things in different countries.

It is important to be able to disable or at least differentiate between them, e.g. in the UK X-band
is used for door-openers and traffic light flow sensors but not speed traps, so you want to be able
to ignorte these.

How do these detectors even work ?
They are radio receivers.

Don't tell me they send out 11 different alert tones (as if I can decode
them at 95 mile an hour) ?
Probably not.
Is it even worth buying one ?

Possibly. You need every defence you can get against the present cash-driven policing policies.

Looks like you are better off obeying speed limits & using other tactics
like go with the flow of traffic etc

Going with the flow of the traffic is not necessarily going to work - some forces target 'naturally
fast' stretches of roads for maximum revenue.

Also I always wondered ..... if the radar gun transmits a PCM signal can it
not be made
undetectable to detectors ? If the detector cannot decode the transmitted
code how can it

They detect the carrier, regardless of the modulation.
If someone speaks to you a foreign language, you can still tell that they are speaking.

 

[Tinman]

"Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net> wrote in message
news:s4v3d.399215$OB3.74096@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote
in message news:10ksu3ggrpc3662@corp.supernews.com...

There are hundreds of automatic door openers that work in the same bands
as the radar detectors, so as you go by a supermarket or dept store,
your detector is likely to go off. But then you're not usually
traveiling very fast when that happens.


Unless the highway happens to be next to a major shopping mall.

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should handle
false-positives properly. (As well as a real threat in the same vicinity as
the false-positive.)


--
Mike Lynch
'04 FLHTCUI
'When this sign is under water, this road is impassable.' -posted on a
Tennessee highway

 

[Surendar Jeyadev]

In article <2r7vlrF15l7rcU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Tinman <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote:

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should handle
false-positives properly. (As well as a real threat in the same vicinity as
the false-positive.)

There are lots and lots of K band door openers now. In fact, where I live,
most cops have switched over to Ka!


--

Surendar Jeyadev jeyadev1@wrc.xerox.com

Remove 1 for email address

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net> wrote in message
news:s4v3d.399215$OB3.74096@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote
in message news:10ksu3ggrpc3662@corp.supernews.com...

There are hundreds of automatic door openers that work in the same
bands
as the radar detectors, so as you go by a supermarket or dept store,
your detector is likely to go off. But then you're not usually
traveiling very fast when that happens.


Unless the highway happens to be next to a major shopping mall.

Norm

Well, hopefully, the highway has _some_ distance between it and the
mall. Here in Californy, they put B-I-G parking lots between the stores
and anything else. Well, unless it's a drive-thru. ;-)

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Tinman" <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote in message
news:2r948hF17to05U1@uni-berlin.de...

"Surendar Jeyadev" <jeyadev@wrc.xerox.bounceback.com> wrote in message
news:cing2o$3e0$1@news.wrc.xerox.com...
In article <2r7vlrF15l7rcU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Tinman <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote:

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should
handle
false-positives properly. (As well as a real threat in the same
vicinity
as
the false-positive.)

There are lots and lots of K band door openers now.

I've rarely encountered them around here, if ever. What is the
motivation
for the change in frequency, to outwit radar detectors? (Serious
question.)


In fact, where I live,
most cops have switched over to Ka!


It's been that way for some time around here--before I arrived 8 years
ago.

I live in an area that has large unpopulated areas. Except for
interstates,
there is not enough manpower to allow for stationary LEOs writing
speeding
tickets (they need to cover their entire territory, which is
time-consuming). This means moving radar; targeting opposing traffic.
Most
LEOs seem to operate in always-on mode, at least until recently. Laser
is
out of the question.

With a decent detector you can get good advance warning. Indeed in
this
environment the cheaper detectors trigger far too soon (but they help
control speed for miles and miles). As instant-on use increases you
need to
plan accordingly. Fortunately, there are a plethora of sacrificial
lambs who
have no problem being out front. If you stay far enough behind
them--but not
too far--you can pickup instant-on radar directed at them. It's very
possible the LEO will miss that vehicle, so you need to slow down
appropriately. (Not me of course, I'm just speaking in general here.)

Often the LEOs will hunker down behind a semi (who must adore them
being if
their draft). They pop out just long enough for a quick burst (what
probable
cause?), and they are back in. I rarely trust a semi coming at me at
what
seems to be a slower than normal speed. Odds are there is a LEO hiding
behind 'em. YMMV.

--
Mike Lynch

I've been following this thread for awhile, hoping to find just a hint
of something electronic in it. So far, no luck. I was hoping someone
would come up with some info on how those detectors work. Some
schematics I've seen depict a simple cavity with a microwace detector
diode in it, and a sensitive amp after the diode. Obviously this isn't
very sensitive because the diode needs some substantial RF to make it
conduct.

But I am pleased to see no BS about jammers. Like stuffing tinfoil into
the hubcaps or other nonsense. The only jammer plans I remember seeing
on the web consisted of a 555 timer chip driving the power input of a
Gunnplexer. Maybe that's why all the cops have switched from X band to
some other band. ;-)

 

[Bownse]

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:

"Tinman" <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote in message
news:2r948hF17to05U1@uni-berlin.de...

"Surendar Jeyadev" <jeyadev@wrc.xerox.bounceback.com> wrote in message
news:cing2o$3e0$1@news.wrc.xerox.com...

In article <2r7vlrF15l7rcU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Tinman <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote:

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should

handle

false-positives properly. (As well as a real threat in the same

vicinity

as
the false-positive.)

There are lots and lots of K band door openers now.

I've rarely encountered them around here, if ever. What is the

motivation

for the change in frequency, to outwit radar detectors? (Serious

question.)


In fact, where I live,
most cops have switched over to Ka!


It's been that way for some time around here--before I arrived 8 years

ago.

I live in an area that has large unpopulated areas. Except for

interstates,

there is not enough manpower to allow for stationary LEOs writing

speeding

tickets (they need to cover their entire territory, which is
time-consuming). This means moving radar; targeting opposing traffic.

Most

LEOs seem to operate in always-on mode, at least until recently. Laser

is

out of the question.

With a decent detector you can get good advance warning. Indeed in

this

environment the cheaper detectors trigger far too soon (but they help
control speed for miles and miles). As instant-on use increases you

need to

plan accordingly. Fortunately, there are a plethora of sacrificial

lambs who

have no problem being out front. If you stay far enough behind

them--but not

too far--you can pickup instant-on radar directed at them. It's very
possible the LEO will miss that vehicle, so you need to slow down
appropriately. (Not me of course, I'm just speaking in general here.)

Often the LEOs will hunker down behind a semi (who must adore them

being if

their draft). They pop out just long enough for a quick burst (what

probable

cause?), and they are back in. I rarely trust a semi coming at me at

what

seems to be a slower than normal speed. Odds are there is a LEO hiding
behind 'em. YMMV.

--
Mike Lynch


I've been following this thread for awhile, hoping to find just a hint
of something electronic in it. So far, no luck. I was hoping someone
would come up with some info on how those detectors work. Some
schematics I've seen depict a simple cavity with a microwace detector
diode in it, and a sensitive amp after the diode. Obviously this isn't
very sensitive because the diode needs some substantial RF to make it
conduct.

Mfgrs will hold their secrets close to their vest because of
competition. So, unless you're a specialist in microwaves or just that
much more anal-retentive than most people, it really doesn't matter. How
WELL it functions under real-world use is what people care about; not why.

But I am pleased to see no BS about jammers. Like stuffing tinfoil into
the hubcaps or other nonsense. The only jammer plans I remember seeing
on the web consisted of a 555 timer chip driving the power input of a
Gunnplexer. Maybe that's why all the cops have switched from X band to
some other band. ;-)

Some jammers can work. However they aren't small, they are an active
radar source, and they are controlled by the FCC in the US. Not a
combination that lends itself to commercial ventures to the general
public. What I want to do is import the UK cell phone jammer I saw a
while back; create a moving "cone (dome) of silence" as you ride.

 

[Bownse]

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:

There are tons of motion sensing devices out there such as automatic
door openers. They set off radar detectors like crazy.

Not all of the detectors. Some are better able to filter out extraneous
fluff.

--

Mark Johnson, Ft Worth; IBA#288; CM#1; EOB, DoD#2021; LPR#50
2003 FJR1300 "E˛"; http://www.bikes-n-spikes.org

 

[Bownse]

One thing that does work is to smoke your brakes, decelerating very
rapidly... you're not at a constant speed long enough for the uP to
accurately count that small difference frequency.

I know this from experience... makes the cop **very** angry, so you're
likely to get a ticket for something anyway ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I've actually tested this on acceleration. With the right bike, you can
light the afterburners and disappear from the radar screen.

Traveling along and got a lock at 20, fired the loudness knob, the
display showed 20 until I left off, suddenly the display jumped to 70.

The radar system can't get a verification (lock) that is close enough to
the previous one, so the programmed logic tells the system that it's a
false or inaccurate reading and doesn't update. You can do it braking
too, but you have to really get aggressive and some bikes'll lock up the
brakes when trying. To me it seemed much more controlled to do it under
"thrusters". ;-)

 

[Tinman]

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com>
wrote in message
news:10kvhbmkor89084@corp.supernews.com...
<big snip>

I've been following this thread for awhile, hoping to find just a hint
of something electronic in it. So far, no luck.

I couldn't care less how they work at the electronics level. I only care
*how well* they work. This thread was cross-posted all over the map.
Don't expect to see replies from only one NG. If the s.e.m folks wanted
to reply, they were free to do so...


--
Mike Lynch
'04 FLHTCUI

 

[matt weber]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:09:01 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"Tinman" <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote in message
news:2r948hF17to05U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Surendar Jeyadev" <jeyadev@wrc.xerox.bounceback.com> wrote in message
news:cing2o$3e0$1@news.wrc.xerox.com...
In article <2r7vlrF15l7rcU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Tinman <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote:

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should
handle


I've been following this thread for awhile, hoping to find just a hint
of something electronic in it. So far, no luck. I was hoping someone
would come up with some info on how those detectors work. Some
schematics I've seen depict a simple cavity with a microwace detector
diode in it, and a sensitive amp after the diode. Obviously this isn't
very sensitive because the diode needs some substantial RF to make it
conduct.
It isn't the problem you think it is. While the RMS power output of

the radar is very low (milliwatts), the peak effective radiatied power
is actually quite high, probably kilowatts, so that the energy that
hits the cavity for a microsecond even at distance of a mile or so is
substantial.

as best I can tell, most of the radar detectors on the more expensive
side do a digital signal processing analysis on the wave form and
timing coming off the detector to determine whether it has the
characteristics of radar (rep rate, ratio of on/off, and modulation).
Some may have more than one tuned cavity as well.

In my University days we had a small search radar on the roof for
training. It had an RMS output of 60 watts, the actual power into the
antenna when it was on was 60Kw, (it fired for 1 microsecond every
millisecond) and the antenna was sharp enough to push the Effective
radiated power up past 1 Megawatt. It used to wipe out the computing
center's mainframe at a distance of half a mile.

But I am pleased to see no BS about jammers. Like stuffing tinfoil into
the hubcaps or other nonsense. The only jammer plans I remember seeing
on the web consisted of a 555 timer chip driving the power input of a
Gunnplexer. Maybe that's why all the cops have switched from X band to
some other band. ;-)

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:01:02 -0700, matt weber <mattheww50@cox.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:09:01 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:


"Tinman" <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote in message
news:2r948hF17to05U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Surendar Jeyadev" <jeyadev@wrc.xerox.bounceback.com> wrote in message
news:cing2o$3e0$1@news.wrc.xerox.com...
In article <2r7vlrF15l7rcU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Tinman <mlynch@REMOVEMEcitlink.net> wrote:

How many LE agencies use always-on X band? A decent detector should
handle


I've been following this thread for awhile, hoping to find just a hint
of something electronic in it. So far, no luck. I was hoping someone
would come up with some info on how those detectors work.

I guess Watson has me plonked, I've explained it twice now ;-)

[snip]
Some
[snip]

In my University days we had a small search radar on the roof for
training. It had an RMS output of 60 watts, the actual power into the
antenna when it was on was 60Kw, (it fired for 1 microsecond every
millisecond) and the antenna was sharp enough to push the Effective
radiated power up past 1 Megawatt. It used to wipe out the computing
center's mainframe at a distance of half a mile.
[snip]

Police speed radar is **CW** (except for the instant-on trigger
squeeze), and it is a homodyne (afraid of gays

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.