Apple throttled your iPhone by cutting its speed almost in H

[nospam]

In article <p356r7$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Brian Gregory wrote on 1/8/2018 8:11 PM:
On 02/01/2018 16:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
harry newton <harry@at.invalid> wrote:

HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung are
among the major brands quick to stress they see no reason to throttle
the performance of their smartphones."

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat?

because the user is doing something cpu intensive for an extended
period of time causing the cpu to get hot.

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

 

[rickman]

joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:51 AM:

On 01/10/2018 08:44 AM, rickman wrote:
joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:06 AM:
On 01/10/2018 07:53 AM, rickman wrote:
BK@Onramp.net wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.



I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty does
not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

pfjw@aol.com wrote on 1/10/2018 9:47 AM:

If the battery in your vehicle wore out in that first 36,000 miles, it would not be covered under the warranty. No more so than the tires, wiper blades, brake pads, engine oil, oil filter, air filter, nor any other wearing part, fluid or filter. We are not discussing the phone, hardware or software. We are discussing the functional equivalent of a wearing part, fluid or filter.

NOTE: Some tires, brake pads, batteries and such carry *SEPARATE* warranties. And there is where you would go if applicable. No warranty, no issue.

So, every car comes with a battery warranty. If it fails to start your car
within the warranty period you get a replacement. Why are you arguing this?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[nospam]

In article <p359ul$sh3$4@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.


I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty does
not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

you don't need to own one to read the warranty information.

here's what motorola has to say:

<https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/euf/assets/downloads/AUS-On
e_Year_Warranty.pdf>
MOBILE PHONES & TABLETS (łProduct˛)
....
This Warranty Does Not Apply to:
(a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings
designed to diminish over time unless failure has occurred due to a
defect in materials or workmanship. As with all batteries, the
maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this
is not a defect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are
covered by this warranty.

note the key sentence:
As with all batteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will
decrease with time and use; this is not a defect.

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:02 AM:

In article <p358rn$sh3$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

batteries are excluded because they are a consumable part.

only if it's defective is it covered under warranty. normal wear and
tear is *not* covered.

if the battery fails a diagnostic test (or any other component) it will
be replaced under warranty. if it passes, then there's no reason to
replace it.

Did you read this in the Apple warranty? I'd like to see a copy.

The only test I really care about is running the phone the way it did when
new. If it doesn't do that the diagnostic test is pointless.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:11 AM:

In article <p359ul$sh3$4@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.


I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty does
not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

you don't need to own one to read the warranty information.

here's what motorola has to say:

https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/euf/assets/downloads/AUS-On
e_Year_Warranty.pdf
MOBILE PHONES & TABLETS (łProduct˛)
....
This Warranty Does Not Apply to:
(a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings
designed to diminish over time unless failure has occurred due to a
defect in materials or workmanship. As with all batteries, the
maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this
is not a defect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are
covered by this warranty.

note the key sentence:
As with all batteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will
decrease with time and use; this is not a defect.

Note the key sentence:

"unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship."

I think that is what Apple has said is happening to their batteries. Aren't
they fixing this problem in newer phones with better batteries. If the old
batteries aren't bad, why would they need to fix them?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:02 AM:

In article <p356hh$eo5$2@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I think a battery that prevents the device from running at full speed
because the unit shuts down would be considered to be "truly defective".


Eventually all batteries do that. How the batteries are (mis)used controls
how soon that happens.

I can't imagine you're suggesting that all worn out batteries be replaced
for free, so where would *you* draw the line?

That's an easy one... when they wear out in the warranty period, replace
them as defective.

they didn't wear out.

the batteries work perfectly fine in normal everyday use.

only the absolute maximum was limited, and only slightly.

So they don't work "fine". My understanding is if Apple didn't install
software to throttle the CPU the battery would cause the phone to shutdown.
That's not working "perfectly fine".

But it may go beyond that since this is clearly a design
flaw.

it's not a design flaw and affects all devices that use batteries. it's
a limitation of today's battery technology.

it's also not just apple. here's one example of many:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/lawsuit-takes-aim-at-google-huawei-
over-nexus-6p-battery-issues/
A federal class action complaint has been filed accusing Google and
Huawei of fraud, breaching warranty and improperly handling customer
complaints after a number of Nexus 6P smartphones unexpectedly shut
down and became trapped in "boot loop" cycles.
....
The Nexus 6P hit the market in late 2015. It's a $500 smartphone with
a 5.7 inch screen that was, overall, a welcome improvement over the
previous year's Nexus 6. As long as it didn't suddenly shut off with
full battery, that is.
....
The Nexus 6P joins a handful of other past-gen Android phones
embroiled in lawsuits over dysfunctional devices, including LG's G4,
V10, G5, V20 and even the Nexus 5X.

You clearly don't understand the technology. If Apple had known of the
problem when they designed the phone they would have used a larger battery
with a higher maximum current. Then as it wore it would still power the
phone at 100% capacity past the end of the warranty period.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:02 AM:

In article <p356r7$i6p$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Brian Gregory wrote on 1/8/2018 8:11 PM:
On 02/01/2018 16:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
harry newton <harry@at.invalid> wrote:

HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung are
among the major brands quick to stress they see no reason to throttle
the performance of their smartphones."

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat?

because the user is doing something cpu intensive for an extended
period of time causing the cpu to get hot.

You completely ignore the issue. CPUs overheating mean the CPU cooling is
not designed appropriately. Just like the cooling in a car. If I drive and
my car overheats the problem is the car wasn't designed correctly or is
broken. Cooling systems should be designed to cool the thing they are
cooling.

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

What? You aren't supposed to play games on a computer? LOL

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

They also don't run the same sort of programs as PCs. But they are
computers and need to be designed to keep cool when being used and not to
burst into flames because someone played a game too long.


> if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Or it can be designed with adequate passive cooling.

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

Or better, cooled.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:04:29 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:

So, every car comes with a battery warranty. If it fails to start your car
within the warranty period you get a replacement. Why are you arguing this?

!@#$%^ apples and (*&^%$ oranges! That batter warranty (if it exists):

Has not one damned thing to do with the vehicle warranty - and must be pursued separately from the vehicle warranty if a claim is necessary. Why are you so dense as to not "GET" that?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[nospam]

In article <p35ahq$bs8$2@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

batteries are excluded because they are a consumable part.

only if it's defective is it covered under warranty. normal wear and
tear is *not* covered.

if the battery fails a diagnostic test (or any other component) it will
be replaced under warranty. if it passes, then there's no reason to
replace it.

Did you read this in the Apple warranty? I'd like to see a copy.

<https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/ios-warranty-document-us.
html>
This Warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as
batteries or protective coatings that are designed to diminish over
time, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or
workmanship; ...

it's a standard disclaimer.

The only test I really care about is running the phone the way it did when
new. If it doesn't do that the diagnostic test is pointless.

it's not a pointless test.

there's a big difference between a battery that's at 95% capacity after
a year (well within normal range) versus one that's at 60% capacity in
the same time frame, or has swollen or some other defect.

 

[nospam]

In article <p35ald$bs8$3@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

you don't need to own one to read the warranty information.

here's what motorola has to say:

https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/euf/assets/downloads/AUS-On
e_Year_Warranty.pdf
MOBILE PHONES & TABLETS (łProduct˛)
....
This Warranty Does Not Apply to:
(a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings
designed to diminish over time unless failure has occurred due to a
defect in materials or workmanship. As with all batteries, the
maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this
is not a defect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are
covered by this warranty.

note the key sentence:
As with all batteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will
decrease with time and use; this is not a defect.

Note the key sentence:

"unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship."

it's not a defect in materials or workmanship.

*all* batteries degrade over time. there is no getting around that, at
least with today's technology.

maybe at some point in the future there will be an eternal power source
that never wears out. that time is not now.

I think that is what Apple has said is happening to their batteries. Aren't
they fixing this problem in newer phones with better batteries. If the old
batteries aren't bad, why would they need to fix them?

no.

 

[nospam]

In article <p35arj$bs8$4@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't imagine you're suggesting that all worn out batteries be replaced
for free, so where would *you* draw the line?

That's an easy one... when they wear out in the warranty period, replace
them as defective.

they didn't wear out.

the batteries work perfectly fine in normal everyday use.

only the absolute maximum was limited, and only slightly.

So they don't work "fine".

they do work fine.

My understanding is if Apple didn't install
software to throttle the CPU the battery would cause the phone to shutdown.
That's not working "perfectly fine".

it's also something that happens to every other battery operated device
when pushed hard enough.

But it may go beyond that since this is clearly a design
flaw.

it's not a design flaw and affects all devices that use batteries. it's
a limitation of today's battery technology.

it's also not just apple. here's one example of many:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/lawsuit-takes-aim-at-google-huawei-
over-nexus-6p-battery-issues/
A federal class action complaint has been filed accusing Google and
Huawei of fraud, breaching warranty and improperly handling customer
complaints after a number of Nexus 6P smartphones unexpectedly shut
down and became trapped in "boot loop" cycles.
....
The Nexus 6P hit the market in late 2015. It's a $500 smartphone with
a 5.7 inch screen that was, overall, a welcome improvement over the
previous year's Nexus 6. As long as it didn't suddenly shut off with
full battery, that is.
....
The Nexus 6P joins a handful of other past-gen Android phones
embroiled in lawsuits over dysfunctional devices, including LG's G4,
V10, G5, V20 and even the Nexus 5X.

You clearly don't understand the technology.

far more than you do, and unlike you, i understand that *all* battery
powered devices are affected, not just from one particular company.

If Apple had known of the
problem when they designed the phone they would have used a larger battery
with a higher maximum current.

larger batteries cost more and take up more space.

mobile devices are highly competitive and users don't want big bulky
phones, nor do they want to pay for battery capacity they won't end up
needing.

most people check email, text, web surf, etc., hardly cpu intensive
activities, so a high capacity battery would be wasted.

the battery is more than adequate for the vast majority of use cases.

apple could have made the iphone the size of an ipad to hold a very
large battery, but it wouldn't have sold particularly well.

everything has tradeoffs.

Then as it wore it would still power the
phone at 100% capacity past the end of the warranty period.

again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with warranty periods.

 

[nospam]

In article <p35b3e$gde$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat?

because the user is doing something cpu intensive for an extended
period of time causing the cpu to get hot.

You completely ignore the issue. CPUs overheating mean the CPU cooling is
not designed appropriately. Just like the cooling in a car. If I drive and
my car overheats the problem is the car wasn't designed correctly or is
broken. Cooling systems should be designed to cool the thing they are
cooling.

i'm not ignoring anything.

if you drive your car in extreme situations, it likely will overheat,
possibly with other failures too.

you can see these people on the side of the road on hot summer days.

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

What? You aren't supposed to play games on a computer? LOL

nonsense. games are extremely popular on mobile devices.

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

They also don't run the same sort of programs as PCs.

yes they do. the obvious ones are email and web browsing, but many
people also edit photos and videos on their phones.

But they are
computers and need to be designed to keep cool when being used and not to
burst into flames because someone played a game too long.

and they are.

if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Or it can be designed with adequate passive cooling.

it is, but everything has limits.

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

Or better, cooled.

right, because a phone with a large heatsink sticking out the back and
a fan that's always on will sell.

not.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/10/18 9:02 AM, rickman wrote:

I don't own an Apple Phone

So you don't even have a dog in this race.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:44:44 AM UTC-5, nospam wrote:

right, because a phone with a large heatsink sticking out the back and
a fan that's always on will sell.

not.

Of course, now the battery must support the fan as well.

Each phone will now come with a Beanie including solar cells and a wind turbine, a fanny-pack for the battery, and a tump line for the phone itself. They will throw in the blue-tooth earpiece for free.

Go figure.


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:44 AM:

In article <p35b3e$gde$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat?

because the user is doing something cpu intensive for an extended
period of time causing the cpu to get hot.

You completely ignore the issue. CPUs overheating mean the CPU cooling is
not designed appropriately. Just like the cooling in a car. If I drive and
my car overheats the problem is the car wasn't designed correctly or is
broken. Cooling systems should be designed to cool the thing they are
cooling.

i'm not ignoring anything.

if you drive your car in extreme situations, it likely will overheat,
possibly with other failures too.

you can see these people on the side of the road on hot summer days.

Yes, because there is something *wrong* with their car, not because it is
expected for cars to stop working when it is warm. *Your* car didn't fail
did it? Did everyone's cars fail? No, only the cars that had a defect.

If your car is under warranty and it overheats on a very hot summer day, do
they say, "Hey, it was a hot day"? No, they fix it!

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

What? You aren't supposed to play games on a computer? LOL

nonsense. games are extremely popular on mobile devices.

So it is reasonable to expect a mobile device to run games without
overheating? If not, then it sounds like mobile devices are real crap!

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

They also don't run the same sort of programs as PCs.

yes they do. the obvious ones are email and web browsing, but many
people also edit photos and videos on their phones.

None of which will cause a mobile device to overheat. Why are you just
disputing everything I say without paying any attention to the context?

But they are
computers and need to be designed to keep cool when being used and not to
burst into flames because someone played a game too long.

and they are.

if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Or it can be designed with adequate passive cooling.

it is, but everything has limits.

Yes, and those limits should be beyond anything a user can do. It's very
easy. Every CPU has a figure for the maximum power dissipation. The phone
needs to be able to dissipate that much power or the CPU will overheat.
Isn't that easy?

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

Or better, cooled.

right, because a phone with a large heatsink sticking out the back and
a fan that's always on will sell.

not.

You clearly know nothing about designing mobile electronics. I'm done with
this discussion with you.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:44 AM:

In article <p35ald$bs8$3@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

you don't need to own one to read the warranty information.

here's what motorola has to say:

https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/euf/assets/downloads/AUS-On
e_Year_Warranty.pdf
MOBILE PHONES & TABLETS (łProduct˛)
....
This Warranty Does Not Apply to:
(a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings
designed to diminish over time unless failure has occurred due to a
defect in materials or workmanship. As with all batteries, the
maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this
is not a defect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are
covered by this warranty.

note the key sentence:
As with all batteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will
decrease with time and use; this is not a defect.

Note the key sentence:

"unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship."

it's not a defect in materials or workmanship.

*all* batteries degrade over time. there is no getting around that, at
least with today's technology.

maybe at some point in the future there will be an eternal power source
that never wears out. that time is not now.

Yep, all batteries degrade with time and use. But the batteries in question
degraded more and faster than Apple expected requiring action on their part
after the sale.

I think that is what Apple has said is happening to their batteries. Aren't
they fixing this problem in newer phones with better batteries. If the old
batteries aren't bad, why would they need to fix them?

no.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:44 AM:

In article <p35ahq$bs8$2@dont-email.me>, rickman
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

batteries are excluded because they are a consumable part.

only if it's defective is it covered under warranty. normal wear and
tear is *not* covered.

if the battery fails a diagnostic test (or any other component) it will
be replaced under warranty. if it passes, then there's no reason to
replace it.

Did you read this in the Apple warranty? I'd like to see a copy.

https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/ios-warranty-document-us.
html
This Warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as
batteries or protective coatings that are designed to diminish over
time, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or
workmanship; ...

it's a standard disclaimer.

"unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or
workmanship;"

Enough said.

The only test I really care about is running the phone the way it did when
new. If it doesn't do that the diagnostic test is pointless.

it's not a pointless test.

there's a big difference between a battery that's at 95% capacity after
a year (well within normal range) versus one that's at 60% capacity in
the same time frame, or has swollen or some other defect.

A diagnostic is used to catch eminent failures or batteries that are
degrading faster than expected. It is not the criteria for replacing a
battery. If the battery won't operate the phone as the phone was intended
to be operated, it doesn't matter what the diagnostic says.

Done here. Argue with yourself.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[rickman]

pfjw@aol.com wrote on 1/10/2018 10:26 AM:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 10:04:29 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:


So, every car comes with a battery warranty. If it fails to start your car
within the warranty period you get a replacement. Why are you arguing this?

!@#$%^ apples and (*&^%$ oranges! That batter warranty (if it exists):

Has not one damned thing to do with the vehicle warranty - and must be pursued separately from the vehicle warranty if a claim is necessary. Why are you so dense as to not "GET" that?

It's still covered by a warranty, why are you so dense you don't GET it?

I'm done these pointless arguments.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

 

[nospam]

In article <p35g4f$m94$1@dont-email.me>, rickman
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

You completely ignore the issue. CPUs overheating mean the CPU cooling is
not designed appropriately. Just like the cooling in a car. If I drive
and
my car overheats the problem is the car wasn't designed correctly or is
broken. Cooling systems should be designed to cool the thing they are
cooling.

i'm not ignoring anything.

if you drive your car in extreme situations, it likely will overheat,
possibly with other failures too.

you can see these people on the side of the road on hot summer days.

Yes, because there is something *wrong* with their car, not because it is
expected for cars to stop working when it is warm. *Your* car didn't fail
did it? Did everyone's cars fail? No, only the cars that had a defect.

nothing is wrong with the vehicle.

If your car is under warranty and it overheats on a very hot summer day, do
they say, "Hey, it was a hot day"? No, they fix it!

there isn't anything to fix.

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

What? You aren't supposed to play games on a computer? LOL

nonsense. games are extremely popular on mobile devices.

So it is reasonable to expect a mobile device to run games without
overheating? If not, then it sounds like mobile devices are real crap!

they run them perfectly fine.

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

They also don't run the same sort of programs as PCs.

yes they do. the obvious ones are email and web browsing, but many
people also edit photos and videos on their phones.

None of which will cause a mobile device to overheat. Why are you just
disputing everything I say without paying any attention to the context?

editing videos certainly can.

do you even own a smartphone?

But they are
computers and need to be designed to keep cool when being used and not to
burst into flames because someone played a game too long.

and they are.

if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Or it can be designed with adequate passive cooling.

it is, but everything has limits.

Yes, and those limits should be beyond anything a user can do. It's very
easy. Every CPU has a figure for the maximum power dissipation. The phone
needs to be able to dissipate that much power or the CPU will overheat.
Isn't that easy?

there's a *lot* more to it than just that.

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme
cases catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

Or better, cooled.

right, because a phone with a large heatsink sticking out the back and
a fan that's always on will sell.

not.

You clearly know nothing about designing mobile electronics.

far more than you do, that much is clear.

I'm done with
this discussion with you.

good.