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I assumed he would be pulling part footprints from the standardIt is not practical, because the scales are lost, and part
registration relies on accurate layout scales.
as i suggested in my other post(s).On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 06:02:36 GMT, Active8
mcolasono@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
just because they have a silkscreen image, that doesn't mean it was done
in layout. they probably saved the screen layer as a dxf file, opened it
in an image editor like PSP, and superimposed the image on it.
mike
We use PADS, and it allows DXFs to be imported;
how many colors? i took an image and just for a quick test, opened it inall our logos and
stuff are gerbered directly while still in PADS. I think it may do
others, too. One of my boards had a color image of my layout guy's
girlfriend (tastefully clad, nothing risque) embedded about 12 times
deep... we never figured how it managed to get into the board...
probably a side effect of PADS' notoriously buggy OLE implementation.
But PADS is expensive.
John
but it vectorized as 1 color because i didn't take the time to play withIn article <l5thkv8uafc5hrqr55gaef0ifdnhpc7mjq@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com says...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 06:02:36 GMT, Active8
mcolasono@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
just because they have a silkscreen image, that doesn't mean it was done
in layout. they probably saved the screen layer as a dxf file, opened it
in an image editor like PSP, and superimposed the image on it.
mike
We use PADS, and it allows DXFs to be imported;
as i suggested in my other post(s).
all our logos and
stuff are gerbered directly while still in PADS. I think it may do
others, too. One of my boards had a color image of my layout guy's
girlfriend (tastefully clad, nothing risque) embedded about 12 times
deep... we never figured how it managed to get into the board...
probably a side effect of PADS' notoriously buggy OLE implementation.
how many colors? i took an image and just for a quick test, opened it in
WinTopo, Vectorized it, and saved as dxf. then i just imported it into
Layout.
brs,
mike
But PADS is expensive.
John
Tracing over a background image isn't quite the same as making a layoutOn Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:23:48 GMT, "Donald J. Miller"
donmillerNOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote:
Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file
as a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There
are program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on
both axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...
"PCB layouts are made from schematics, and PCB layout software is keyed
toward that end. You will not find ANY package that takes line art
bitmaps, and makes layouts from them. It is a silly concept."
John
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:23:48 GMT, "Donald J. Miller"
donmillerNOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote:
Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...
snip
You are a silly conceptualizer.It is a silly concept."
It is a silly concept. Note how it is not a mainstream package.
parts have to be in the right place. That means that the software HASDarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:
We do 0402 SMD layouts with it all the time.
Pardon my not being impressed, but, so what? They're still far bigger
than the one mil resolution of even cheap layout programs.
Dude. You are stupid. In order for an 0402 layout to work, the
Go take your meds.My original question was: what is different about that layout program
that makes it "more precise" to you?
It is impractical because people that do layouts do them fromDarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:
It is not practical, because the scales are lost, and part
registration relies on accurate layout scales.
I assumed he would be pulling part footprints from the standard
library, and using the photo to help him manually run the traces to
the right pins. I see nothing impractical about it.
I've got plenty of clues. What I'm missing is an answer to myPardon my not being impressed, but, so what? They're still far bigger
than the one mil resolution of even cheap layout programs.
Dude. You are stupid. In order for an 0402 layout to work, the
parts have to be in the right place. That means that the software HAS
to be able to resolve that far if it can do accurate layouts of that
size part. Get a clue.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:16:53 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> Gave us:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:23:48 GMT, "Donald J. Miller"
donmillerNOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote:
Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...
snip
It is a silly concept."
It is a silly concept. Note how it is not a mainstream package.
You are a silly conceptualizer.
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:23:48 GMT, "Donald J. Miller"
donmillerNOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote:
Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file
as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...
"PCB layouts are made from schematics, and PCB layout software is
keyed toward that end. You will not find ANY package that takes line
art bitmaps, and makes layouts from them. It is a silly concept."
John
On 24 Aug 2003 21:47:09 -0400, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> Gave us:
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:
It is not practical, because the scales are lost, and part
registration relies on accurate layout scales.
I assumed he would be pulling part footprints from the standard
library, and using the photo to help him manually run the traces to
the right pins. I see nothing impractical about it.
It is impractical because people that do layouts do them from
schematics. Also, it would be just as easy to get the part package,
and place it than it would be to get the overlay, then get the part,
then re-scale the overlay to match, then place the part because the
layout package requires it... etc etc etc... When all you should be
doing is grab the part from the library, and place the damned thing,
and then add wires to it (traces dufus).
It is impractical because it is a waste of time.
Especially when positive cases exist.A fundamental scientific premis: You cannot prove a negative.
Wow, this program does exactly what I want. Thank you!!!Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Yes I actually tried that briefly before I posted the question, it wasWould the whole PCB fit on your screen? If so, photocopy the image onto a
transparency and tape it to your screen.
The vast majority of layouts are done beginning with schematics - in fact it
is essential to ensure that the schematics agree with the wiring of the PCB.
The 'idea' of a circuit is first expressed in schematic form (unless from a
HDL, but thats a different story), hence thats were the PCB design process
begins.
However, there is a very small class of PCB layout package use where one
must copy a PCB. Sometimes this is done by product maintenance people, by
reverse-engineers, or to rescue the development path of a product originally
done in a defunct PCB package (anyone remember Orcad PCB? Yucckkk!).
DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> writes:
Pardon my not being impressed, but, so what? They're still far bigger
than the one mil resolution of even cheap layout programs.
Dude. You are stupid. In order for an 0402 layout to work, the
parts have to be in the right place. That means that the software HAS
to be able to resolve that far if it can do accurate layouts of that
size part. Get a clue.
I've got plenty of clues. What I'm missing is an answer to my
question, which you seem to be unable to provide. The question is:
what does your layout package do differently, that makes it more
accurate? I know how to do layouts, and I know what a 0402 package
is, what I don't know is what your layout package does differently
that makes it "more accurate". Does it have better resolution than 1
mil? Does it allow for sub-mil positioning? Does it have a better
zoom feature?
Since I use PCB, and have the sources to it, if there's some feature
that makes it "more accurate" I might be able to add that feature to
PCB as well, if only you'd tell me what that feature is.
Depends on the layout package as to that capability.On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:06:48 -0700, DarkMatter
DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:16:53 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> Gave us:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:23:48 GMT, "Donald J. Miller"
donmillerNOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote:
Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.
Info is available at www.holophase.com
Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...
snip
It is a silly concept."
It is a silly concept. Note how it is not a mainstream package.
You are a silly conceptualizer.
We bring in DXFs all the time.
Actually, many layout packages have fine editors that allow all theIt's often easier to do the mechanical
side of PC designs in Autocad, then bring them in and use that as a
placement template.
Sounds like the lack of a good mech eng, and layout personage.This is especially useful when we have to, say,
mate up a PCB with an enclosure.
Our time is devoted to turning product and quick time-to-marketPADS apparently won't import a BMP to
a PCB or a schematic, but it would be handy if it did... we could use
that for logos, cartoon characters, "comments" on schematics, stuff
like that. Most PCB programs are terrible drawing/drafting programs.
I'm not surprised you're too stupid to realize what the question was.If you are the programmer, I am surprised at your entire line of
questioning, from the get go.
Ok, this is useful information. No, PCB doesn't have sub-mil spacing,The resolve in the package I described must be sub mil, because the
coordinate display resolves to sub mil accuracy. The minimum grid
step is only one mil, however. For sub mil, the grid would have to be
unsnapped.