A relevation about trees is messing with climate calculations...

[Jan Panteltje]

A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:

A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.

They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[a a]

The arsehole Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: A relevation about trees is messing with climate calculations
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 05:18:08 GMT
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[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.

A lengthy read:

https://knowablemagazine.org/article/food-environment/2023/dead-trees-shocking-scientists

It\'s great the treeless apes are getting around to developing a workable understanding of how trees actually grow, but it\'s a century too late and a dollar short. They won\'t need to worry about all these -penes much longer. Which might be just as well because some of these naturally derived NPFs have been implicated in mesothelioma.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 05:18:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.

People mocked Ronald Reagan when he said that trees cause smog.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 05:16:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.

Sorry to disappoint your chronic disappointment:

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 11:16:46 PM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

Maybe they do, but they aren\'t sequiterpenes after they have been oxidised.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.

There are trees for every environment. The last 2.6 million years have been on the cold side, but some of the warm climate trees that had to retreat to the tropics will move away from the equator when the planet gets a bit warmer.

A lengthy read:

https://knowablemagazine.org/article/food-environment/2023/dead-trees-shocking-scientists

It\'s great the treeless apes are getting around to developing a workable understanding of how trees actually grow, but it\'s a century too late and a dollar short. They won\'t need to worry about all these sequiterpenes much longer.

Don\'t be silly. There are lots of different trees and quite a few of them generate sequiterpenes

> Which might be just as well because some of these naturally derived NPFs have been implicated in mesothelioma.

Biologically active molecules show up all over the place, doing lots of different stuff. There\'s probably one that specialises in giving pompous twits cancer.,

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 11:46:45 PM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 05:16:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

So they aren\'t sesquiterpenes when the do the nucleating job. Fred does capture all the important details ...

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.

Sorry to disappoint your chronic disappointment:

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/

That really is aimed at dimwits.

\"“The second most important driver is nitrogen, at 9 percent. So we see what an outsized role CO2 plays in this process.”

Nitrogen in the air - N2 - is useless to plants. It has to be \"fixed\" - oxidised to a nitrogen oxides or converted to ammonia or urea to be any use to plants, and .legumes rely on symbiotic nitrogen fixing bacteria to do the jobs for them. Thunderstorms (or rather lightning flashes) do oxidise some nitrogen, but not nearly enough.

Good enough to pacify John Larkin, and the rest of the pig-ignorant target audience.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:46:45 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 05:16:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.
Sorry to disappoint your chronic disappointment:

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/

That page is dated 2016. Obsolete.

Long term drought and heat waves are killing forests worldwide, and that\'s a fact. Because this kind of destructive weather is brought on by warming due to excessive atmospheric CO2, the ultimate conclusion is CO2 is killing them, not greening them.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 1:29:05 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:46:45 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 05:16:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.
Sorry to disappoint your chronic disappointment:

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/
That page is dated 2016. Obsolete.

Long term drought and heat waves are killing forests worldwide, and that\'s a fact. Because this kind of destructive weather is brought on by warming due to excessive atmospheric CO2, the ultimate conclusion is CO2 is killing them, not greening them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

we had this kind of warming some 55.5 million years ago, and it didn\'t kill off all the forests. It probably changed the trees you found in any given forest, but there\'s a lot of genetic diversity around and you still had forests, even if they looked a bit different.

The problem with anthropogenic global warming is not that it is going to kill off everything, but rather that the crops we\'ve been growing for most of this interglacial aren\'t going to grow as well in the places we have got used to growing them. We are going to have to find other crops, and grow them in different places. but nature is just going to adapt - as it always has..

We are just going to have to negotiate our way between the Scylla of John Larkin\'s \"nothing is happening\" and the and Charybdis of your \"everything is going to get totally wrecked\". You are both wrong, and both of you are totally unhelpful. A pair of Trumps.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 03 Oct 2023 05:42:08 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <kt2ohi116sid3bcp1e9ie3ncerh0urtrl6@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 05:18:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.


People mocked Ronald Reagan when he said that trees cause smog.

Reagan was OK.
I am glad now aid to Ukraine is no longer part of the US taxpayer robbery.
Today I was wondering if a species that makes weapons just to be able to sell those so they can eat and makes war in places from its home for just that reason,
is allowed in the universe of things.
BuyThen with NATO is just a US weapon sales agency.
BuyThen is just eating human flesh that way.
So I won\'t cry if the BuyThen species gets some of its own medicine.
BuyThen is a cannibal.
!

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:46:45?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 05:16:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:52:40?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 4:18:17?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
A revelation about trees is messing with climate calculations
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/09/this-cloud-particle-is-making-climate-calculations-hazy/
Scientists are learning more about “sesquiterpenes,\" vapors made from trees.
They\'ve always known about sequiterpenes - my organic chemistry courses from the early 1960\'s were excessively informative about the subject, which is why I can still remember the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene

There wasn\'t any suggestion at the time that they were particularly good nucleation centres for atmospheric moisture - the cloud seeding trials of the period relied on the rather more expensive silver iodide for that.

As usual, Jan Panteltje doesn\'t know what he is talking about.

There is such a thing as actually reading the research report. The sesquiterpenes oxidize and contribute to the formation of ULVOCs which are \'highly efficient nucleators\'- and very efficient at NPF, with which the clouds are seeded, The sesquiterpenes have 50X the proficiency of the better studied \'-penes\'.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adi5297

Problem is all the forests are dying due to drought and heat, a one-two punch that is looking less and less survivable in the long term.
Sorry to disappoint your chronic disappointment:

https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/

That page is dated 2016. Obsolete.

Even more CO2 and even more greening.

Long term drought and heat waves are killing forests worldwide, and that\'s a fact. Because this kind of destructive weather is brought on by warming due to excessive atmospheric CO2, the ultimate conclusion is CO2 is killing them, not greening them.

Keep hoping for the worst.

 

[a a]

The arsehole Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

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[a a]

The arsehole Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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[a a]

The idiot John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote:

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The idiot John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote:

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[a a]

The idiot John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote:

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From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: A relevation about trees is messing with climate calculations
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 05:42:08 -0700
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[a a]

The arsehole Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: A relevation about trees is messing with climate calculations
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 15:25:43 GMT
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[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 9:03:33 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Long term drought and heat waves are killing forests worldwide, and that\'s a fact. Because this kind of destructive weather is brought on by warming due to excessive atmospheric CO2, the ultimate conclusion is CO2 is killing them, not greening them.
Keep hoping for the worst.

The comment was about conclusions, not hopes.
Observation of forests leads to conclusions. Those are solid and fact-based,
which are important distinctive properties that don\'t apply to \'hopes\'.

Learn the difference; it is important.

 

[a a]

The idiot whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

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