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D

Don Y

Guest
On 7/29/2020 10:31 PM, Ricketty C wrote:

I can\'t measure the end to end delays. My connection is only to the Zoom
server. Someone else\'s connection is from their source to the server. I
don\'t have an IP address for the Zoom server so I can\'t even check mine.
You can see the address of the server WHILE you are connected to it.
You can only diagnose YOUR path.
Presumably, you can ask others to do the same with THEIR paths.

Your tools don\'t provide any indication of where the problem is, only that
there is a problem between two end points. I already know the problem with
the other guy\'s audio is at his end because there are four or more people in
the conference call and when his audio starts to drop out everyone hears it,
not just me.

Do I not understand what you\'ve said? What tool do you have that will point
to the source of the problem other than that it is in my link or not? I
already know my link is crappy, that\'s why I turn off my video. Nothing I
can learn about details of my link will be of any value unless it in my home
which I know it is not.

I don\'t agree that counting hops is useful. I have the same number of local
hops to reach 8.8.8.8 as the Zoom server and at this time of night the
The number of hops isn\'t the issue, in a vacuum. All it tells you is that
there are some number (n) of devices in the path that can introduce latency
and jitter. A *wire* has a fixed latency and no jitter.

The actual devices that YOUR packets travel through are likely not
the same (physical) devices that someone else\'s packets travel through.

E.g., I know that the first hop, here, has ONLY one data source/sink
attached -- THIS PC. Likewise, I know that the second hop (to the
transceiver on the roof) has just one device feeding it (from THIS end).
So, I expect those delays and latencies to be invariant.

The next hop will depend on how many devices are pushing traffic through
the remote access point that I\'m tied to. Likewise, the hop after that
will likely see traffic from all of the access points in town. And,
the point in phoenix will no doubt be fed from many different localities.

I can neither control that traffic nor measure it.

But, because the route is exposed (or exposable) to me, I can make
some deductions on how it MIGHT be affected, over time. I\'m willing
to bet that the path from google back to me has the first n hops seeing
different performance figures than the first n hops from me to them! :>

latencies are low and consistent. During prime time when everyone is
watching videos the latency gets worse.
Because <something> is processing more data (bandwidth or connections).
You should be able to see an increase in the delay between successive
nodes AT the \"problem/bottleneck device\".

Similarly, Joerg should be able to see where *his* problems lie -- or,
those of the folks with which he is communicating. Just saying \"it doesn\'t
work\" or \"it works like shit at certain times of day\" doesn\'t tell anyone
anything.

I think I mentioned before that on
the holiday weekends when everyone is here at the lake it is a disaster.
The WISP provider said he would be installing a new fiber (I thought his
network connections were wireless, but I guess they go to fiber somewhere)
to a local tower and things will improve. Maybe I can share video on Zoom
then.

Joe talked about 25 Mbps being ok. I have 7 Mbps max and often only see 2
or 3 Mbps.
You can view video at much lower bitrates than that. Our local library
delivers ~400K to each workstation and that\'s very viewable. Esp given
that most video compressors can achieve really high (50x) rates of compression.
Some compressors (e.g., MJPEG) are largely immune to changes in scene
so present a more invariant bandwidth requirement (than others).

Also, video can be designed to tolerate \"dropouts\" much better than audio
(if your image FREEZES, momentarily, it may make the overall presentation a
bit \"jerky\" but likely is still discernible (unless there are significant
events that can be completely elided by the dropout). OTOH, you can\'t
\"freeze\" an audio signal (to bridge a dropout) and hope to retain any
intelligibility.
 
B

Bill Sloman

Guest
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:30:58 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 27.07.20 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus Kragelund:
In Denmark we shut down completely 11th of March, and in my company we went back to work fully mid June, with some people starting mid May

We have the situation under control (so far) since people respected the guidelines and the pullback was strong

We have had about 2000 cases per million people, 6 times lower than the US. I hope it will be under control soon in the US

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.
Yes, the Communist Party says so.
And the Western reporters in the country. Who also say that China has had to manage a few - much smaller - outbreaks since they got the first outbreak in Wuhan under control. The US should have been able do as well. Australia isn\'t currently setting a great example - the current new outbreak in the state of Victoria has hit a new peak with 723 new cases in one day - but the rest of country has very few.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
M

Martin Brown

Guest
On 29/07/2020 19:37, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-28 06:26, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/07/2020 20:34, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 12:26:14 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:06:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-07-27 14:55, John Larkin wrote:


https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/report-googles-200000-employees-will-work-from-home-for-another-full-year/

This virus thing might change things, and specifically cities,
forever.

Are many of you working from home now?

Been back in the lab for a month.  (It has way better A/C than
home.) ;)\'s

It\'s 50C to 60C here.  The computers provide better heating than home.

Never known it that hot in any of our offices although one site I used
to visit kept their programmers in an attic where the summer temperature
sometimes hit 45C which made life unbearable for them.

35-40C is near noamrl in my office in summer. Especially when doing
length SPICE simulations.
That\'s a bit toasty for me and I have lived in semi tropics in the past.
I stop work if my office goes over 33C - my brain overheats and so do I.

It only happens a couple of days a year in the UK so warm - none so far
this year. Last year at this time there were record high temperatures.
Didn\'t do the computers much good either.

This year I had only two BSOD events. So far.
I last saw those here with Vista <fx>crosses fingers</fx> or on
customers machines with badly out of date graphics drivers. Some of my
Vista BSODs were actually failing electrolytics on the motherboard.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
J

John S

Guest
On 7/29/2020 9:51 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 06:12:55 -0500, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org
wrote:

On 7/27/2020 4:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 12:54:22 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-07-27 15:34, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 12:26:14 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:06:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-07-27 14:55, John Larkin wrote:


https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/report-googles-200000-employees-will-work-from-home-for-another-full-year/

This virus thing might change things, and specifically cities,
forever.

Are many of you working from home now?




Been back in the lab for a month. (It has way better A/C than home.) ;)\'s

It\'s 50C to 60C here. The computers provide better heating than home.

You obviously work for 666 Technology or something, if you\'re still
chilly at 60C.

Yes, i am really bad with units, see above correction for 50F to 60F.


Hey, it\'s 62F here on Potrero. Just beastly.

There is some bright scary hot thing in the sky that we\'re not used
to.


A nuclear bomb? Go underground NOW!

False alarm. It went away.
I will be back. There\'s more where that came from.
 
J

John S

Guest
On 7/30/2020 6:53 AM, John S wrote:
On 7/29/2020 9:51 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 06:12:55 -0500, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org
wrote:

On 7/27/2020 4:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 12:54:22 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-07-27 15:34, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 12:26:14 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:06:03 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2020-07-27 14:55, John Larkin wrote:


https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/report-googles-200000-employees-will-work-from-home-for-another-full-year/


This virus thing might change things, and specifically cities,
forever.

Are many of you working from home now?




Been back in the lab for a month.  (It has way better A/C than
home.) ;)\'s

It\'s 50C to 60C here.  The computers provide better heating than
home.

You obviously work for 666 Technology or something, if you\'re still
chilly at 60C.

Yes, i am really bad with units, see above correction for 50F to 60F.


Hey, it\'s 62F here on Potrero. Just beastly.

There is some bright scary hot thing in the sky that we\'re not used
to.


A nuclear bomb? Go underground NOW!

False alarm. It went away.


I will be back. There\'s more where that came from.
Errr... *It* will be back. I may not.
 
M

Martin Brown

Guest
On 29/07/2020 19:29, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:08, Ricketty C wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:35:46 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

That can be tough online. I found that when 10 time zones away the
latency can be hard to overcome. Depends a bit on country and
infrastructure on the other side(s). I have a 75Mbps link but some
don\'t. You almost have to say \"Over\" at the end of your
transmission. However, I found it all works well in the end.

We have that sort of scattering with people in California and in
eastern Europe.  No latency issues... I mean really?  Latency is only
an issue when you have a local problem these days.

It\'s a long distance issue. The packets get routed via all sorts of
infrastructure along the way. Do a ping to a European web site and
mostly you find something north of 150msec. Add to that latencies in the
computers themselves and it becomes easy for people to fall into someone
else speaking.
That is unusually slow! I have rural ADSL at 5Mbps on a good day and
routinely get US pings between 50 and 80ms. My line is so slow and with
interleaving error correction enabled the fastest I can get for London
is 40ms and 55ms is more typical (with almost no variance). If fastpath
were enabled I would get about 20ms pings to London but it would be
hopelessly unreliable now (used to be OK). Line is failing gradually.

I notice that problem only when overseas parties are participating,
hardly ever with anyone is on the US West Coast.
I do see pings that are *much* slower to the US West coast than into the
East Coast or Chicago but the congestion is internal to the USA. You
just may be unlucky in your choice of European country or city but
German telecoms infrastructure should be OK.

For example, I just pinged my old health care provideer in Europe for a
test, 171-175msec. It is a very large company with good IT
infrastructure. Pinging Intel in California results in 12-17msec.
Try pinging somewhere physically on the US East coast and I expect you
will find >100ms delays to there too. Weirdly I just tried pinging
UCSD.edu and to my surprise got a 55ms ping response.

                                              ... We do on occasion
have bandwidth issues which are also local problems.  I don\'t turn on
my video because of my Internet connection being poor in both latency
and bandwidth.

See? That\'s what I mean. IME the audio latency does not improve when
turning off the video. That we only do when the bandwidth on the other
side is too skimpy.
The audio quality sometimes goes haywire though with video on. Sort of
like a motorboat effect.

The goofy thing is the bandwidth issues show up first in the audio
rather than letting the video degrade.  Without audio the whole thing
is pointless.  We tried one of the other services because of the 40
minute meeting limitation on Zoom for free accounts and found the
other service was very blurry when the camera moved.  Zoom was much
more clear.  Maybe the other service was preserving bandwidth, lol.

That is one of my pet peeve. So far Zoom is one of the few services
where their engineers understand that audio is #1, always. Us guys in
the Signal Corps 40-some years ago already knew that back then.
It does look funny though when my wife\'s Zumba class loses video sync.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

Martin Brown

Guest
On 29/07/2020 01:38, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rfq8re$epi$1@reader1.panix.com>,
David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

Between the road and the upper levels are about 50 stairs. No
elevator, so I get a good workout carrying boxes up the stairs.

\"How to design and build a baggage funicular in your front yard....\"

A trebuchet would be more fun.
There is a local guy who has one round here. Uses it to lob water melons
across the fields at various village fetes to raise funds for charity.
(of which there are none this year)

Belgium has an interesting take on this removals problem they have the
most ramshackle ladder with motorised platform thing you can imagine and
pile their belongings on it and then it goes up to the floor required.
They take the window out to move stuff in. Scary or what?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

Martin Brown

Guest
On 30/07/2020 07:07, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:30:58 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann
dk...@arcor.de> wrote:

Am 27.07.20 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus Kragelund:
In Denmark we shut down completely 11th of March, and in my
company we went back to work fully mid June, with some people
starting mid May

We have the situation under control (so far) since people
respected the guidelines and the pullback was strong

We have had about 2000 cases per million people, 6 times lower
than the US. I hope it will be under control soon in the US

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3
days currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US
is only 25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their
epidemic.
Yes, the Communist Party says so.

And the Western reporters in the country. Who also say that China has
had to manage a few - much smaller - outbreaks since they got the
first outbreak in Wuhan under control. The US should have been able
It is looking a bit more dodgy in Hong Kong as well for Covid being on
the rise. The problem is as ever with the asymptomatic transmission.

do as well. Australia isn\'t currently setting a great example - the
current new outbreak in the state of Victoria has hit a new peak with
723 new cases in one day - but the rest of country has very few.
It was pretty much inevitable. The virus is far too infective and
sufficiently stealthy to escape from quarantine. If only because bored
quarantinees are inclined to sleep with the hotel security guards which
is how the thing escaped back into the community in Australia.

Only New Zealand has truly dodged this bullet and even they may struggle
to keep it out long term if they want to have a tourist industry again.

UK has banned travel to Spain at the moment including isolated Spanish
islands where the Covid rate is an order of magnitude lower than here.
The Catalan area represents the vast majority of all Spanish cases. It
is bad news for Spain because these places rely on British tourists.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.
You\'ve correctly identified the officials who sign off on such reports. So what?

There\'s international agreement on how the WHO reports are handled,
but local quirks make most data questionable for a variety of reasons (mainly
just innocent).

In recent weeks, SF has had very odd infection/death ratios, completely
unlikely and out of sync with the rest of the nation. Why?
 
M

Martin Brown

Guest
On 30/07/2020 06:31, Ricketty C wrote:

> Joe talked about 25 Mbps being ok. I have 7 Mbps max and often only see 2 or 3 Mbps.

It video gets pretty iffy when you get down to 2 or 3Mbps.

My connection is 6Mbps on a good dry summers day and degrades with rain
to about 3Mbps. Anything better than about 3.5M will support HD video
with the occassional buffering lag or sync loss in the video stream but
the audio pretty much continuously OK. On a really bad wet and windy day
it can\'t even stream high quality audio reliably.

All bets are off if there is a hard error on my local line which causes
a 1s glitch whilst lost packets are retransmitted and if they also fail
it enters exponential backoff. I get about 5 of those an hour even with
interleaving error correction enabled. My modem uptime before there is a
completely unrecoverable line error is 2-3 weeks. It gets stuck in a
state where it claims in sync but error seconds increase in realtime.

The odd one according to Murphy\'s Law lands where it can do most damage.

You might want to look at your line statistics attenuation and SNR to
see what proportion of hard and soft errors the modem is encountering.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 
G

Gerhard Hoffmann

Guest
Am 29.07.20 um 22:30 schrieb John Larkin:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 27.07.20 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus Kragelund:
In Denmark we shut down completely 11th of March, and in my company we went back to work fully mid June, with some people starting mid May

We have the situation under control (so far) since people respected the guidelines and the pullback was strong

We have had about 2000 cases per million people, 6 times lower than the US. I hope it will be under control soon in the US

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.
Oh, yes, I think I heard someone talk that Xi Jinping was heard saying:

“Think of this, if we didn’t do testing, instead of testing over 40
million people, if we did half the testing we would have half the
cases,” Xi said at a press conference at a WHO meeting where he gave
new orders. “If we did another, you cut that in half, we would
have, yet again, half of that.\"


Gerhard
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 7/30/2020 8:50 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/07/2020 06:31, Ricketty C wrote:

Joe talked about 25 Mbps being ok. I have 7 Mbps max and often only see 2 or
3 Mbps.

It video gets pretty iffy when you get down to 2 or 3Mbps.

My connection is 6Mbps on a good dry summers day and degrades with rain to
about 3Mbps. Anything better than about 3.5M will support HD video with the
occassional buffering lag or sync loss in the video stream but the audio pretty
much continuously OK. On a really bad wet and windy day it can\'t even stream
high quality audio reliably.
It\'s a video conference; why do you need HD quality? Looking to check
the amount of stubble on folks\' faces? :>

Local library throttles workstations to 400KB (~3Mb) and folks have no
problem watching videos.

But, there\'s little/no (real) time for retransmission of lost/corrupted
packets. (library has a reasonably fat pipe into the building to
support the 40+ workstations that are typically in use in addition to
their own needs)
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 7/30/2020 9:05 AM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.

Oh, yes, I think I heard someone talk that Xi Jinping was heard saying:

“Think of this, if we didn’t do testing, instead of testing over 40
million people, if we did half the testing we would have half the
cases,” Xi said at a press conference at a WHO meeting where he gave
new orders. “If we did another, you cut that in half, we would
have, yet again, half of that.\"
Yes -- though I thought he looked awfully ORANGE at that presentation
(isn\'t the sterotypical oriental \"yellow\"?)
 
L

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Guest
torsdag den 30. juli 2020 kl. 16.37.54 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
On 29/07/2020 01:38, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rfq8re$epi$1@reader1.panix.com>,
David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

Between the road and the upper levels are about 50 stairs. No
elevator, so I get a good workout carrying boxes up the stairs.

\"How to design and build a baggage funicular in your front yard....\"

A trebuchet would be more fun.

There is a local guy who has one round here. Uses it to lob water melons
across the fields at various village fetes to raise funds for charity.
(of which there are none this year)

Belgium has an interesting take on this removals problem they have the
most ramshackle ladder with motorised platform thing you can imagine and
pile their belongings on it and then it goes up to the floor required.
They take the window out to move stuff in. Scary or what?
here too, you can rent one, https://youtu.be/DRdNVx85vp4
 
S

server

Guest
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:23:40 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 30/07/2020 07:07, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:30:58 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann
dk...@arcor.de> wrote:

Am 27.07.20 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus Kragelund:
In Denmark we shut down completely 11th of March, and in my
company we went back to work fully mid June, with some people
starting mid May

We have the situation under control (so far) since people
respected the guidelines and the pullback was strong

We have had about 2000 cases per million people, 6 times lower
than the US. I hope it will be under control soon in the US

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3
days currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US
is only 25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their
epidemic.
Yes, the Communist Party says so.

And the Western reporters in the country. Who also say that China has
had to manage a few - much smaller - outbreaks since they got the
first outbreak in Wuhan under control. The US should have been able

It is looking a bit more dodgy in Hong Kong as well for Covid being on
the rise. The problem is as ever with the asymptomatic transmission.

do as well. Australia isn\'t currently setting a great example - the
current new outbreak in the state of Victoria has hit a new peak with
723 new cases in one day - but the rest of country has very few.

It was pretty much inevitable. The virus is far too infective and
sufficiently stealthy to escape from quarantine. If only because bored
quarantinees are inclined to sleep with the hotel security guards which
is how the thing escaped back into the community in Australia.

Only New Zealand has truly dodged this bullet and even they may struggle
to keep it out long term if they want to have a tourist industry again.
\"Dodged the bullet\" means they have created a virus-naiive
super-infectable population. A vaccine could save them, or years of
closed borders.

UK has banned travel to Spain at the moment including isolated Spanish
islands where the Covid rate is an order of magnitude lower than here.
The Catalan area represents the vast majority of all Spanish cases. It
is bad news for Spain because these places rely on British tourists.
Closed borders, between countries and states, is mostly useless
tribalism. There are a zillion virus seeds in the UK already.





--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
S

server

Guest
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 08:40:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.

You\'ve correctly identified the officials who sign off on such reports. So what?

There\'s international agreement on how the WHO reports are handled,
but local quirks make most data questionable for a variety of reasons (mainly
just innocent).

In recent weeks, SF has had very odd infection/death ratios, completely
unlikely and out of sync with the rest of the nation. Why?
SF\'s PPM death count is very low. Maybe it\'s the climate, cool with
very high humidity. Big office buildings have air conditioning, and
are mostly shut down. Small biz and residences rarely have a/c here.
When it gets too hot inside, we can open a window an inch or two.

About half of US deaths have been in senior nursing homes. The big
senior nursing home in SF is Laguna Honda; zero deaths so far among
residents and staff. They protected everyone, like New York didn\'t.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 7/30/2020 10:03 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 08:40:32 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.

You\'ve correctly identified the officials who sign off on such reports. So what?

There\'s international agreement on how the WHO reports are handled,
but local quirks make most data questionable for a variety of reasons (mainly
just innocent).

In recent weeks, SF has had very odd infection/death ratios, completely
unlikely and out of sync with the rest of the nation. Why?

SF\'s PPM death count is very low. Maybe it\'s the climate, cool with
very high humidity. Big office buildings have air conditioning, and
are mostly shut down. Small biz and residences rarely have a/c here.
When it gets too hot inside, we can open a window an inch or two.

About half of US deaths have been in senior nursing homes. The big
senior nursing home in SF is Laguna Honda; zero deaths so far among
residents and staff. They protected everyone, like New York didn\'t.
It\'s not people who are dying that are the problem, now. Most
COVID hospital beds are filled with people who WON\'T die -- yet
they tie up that space (and resources -- staff, supplies) from folks
who get in car accidents, have heart attacks/strokes, complications
in delivery, elective surgeries, etc.

We won\'t know what the health consequences for the survivors will
be for year(s) after this mess has been \"controlled\" (at least
enough so that folks can start looking at statistical correlations).
 
J

John Larkin

Guest
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:05:17 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

Am 29.07.20 um 22:30 schrieb John Larkin:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:58:02 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 27.07.20 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus Kragelund:
In Denmark we shut down completely 11th of March, and in my company we went back to work fully mid June, with some people starting mid May

We have the situation under control (so far) since people respected the guidelines and the pullback was strong

We have had about 2000 cases per million people, 6 times lower than the US. I hope it will be under control soon in the US

We in .de had as much cases in total as the US as the US has in 3 days
currently. Yes, we are only 25% of the US people. But the US is only
25% of China\'s people. _They_ have stopped their epidemic.

Yes, the Communist Party says so.


Oh, yes, I think I heard someone talk that Xi Jinping was heard saying:

“Think of this, if we didn’t do testing, instead of testing over 40
million people, if we did half the testing we would have half the
cases,” Xi said at a press conference at a WHO meeting where he gave
new orders. “If we did another, you cut that in half, we would
have, yet again, half of that.\"


Gerhard
Did he actually say that? Not only does power corrupt, it makes people
stupid.
 
J

Joerg

Guest
On 2020-07-29 21:40, Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 11:29:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

On 2020-07-29 11:08, Ricketty C wrote:
[...]

The goofy thing is the bandwidth issues show up first in the audio
rather than letting the video degrade. Without audio the whole thing
is pointless. We tried one of the other services because of the 40
minute meeting limitation on Zoom for free accounts and found the other
service was very blurry when the camera moved. Zoom was much more
clear. Maybe the other service was preserving bandwidth, lol.


That is one of my pet peeve. So far Zoom is one of the few services
where their engineers understand that audio is #1, always. Us guys in
the Signal Corps 40-some years ago already knew that back then.

ITU says 150ms one way, so called \"mouth to ear\". Cisco says that
can be pushed to a 200ms budget. Also > 30ms packet jitter can
be a problem. If you examine the video you normally see very
little movement with a conference. Some static power point slide
while people talk. Even video of people talking the back ground
is very static. Frame to frame compression can be very high, thus
video can be good but audio is poor.
Problem is, even with only 150msec it can take up to a 1/3rd of a second
(rount trip) to realize that the other guy must have started talking at
the same time. Then we both stop, both start again, stop again, the
usual. A 1/3rd of a second is a long time for audio.


I probably average 8 to 10 hours a week video calls using Cisco
webex. 25Mbs link and no real issues. They have a free version
but it has a 50min meeting limit. Entry level paid version is
something like $14/month.
$14 is cheap for the benefit such a service provides. \"Pre-COVID\" I had
calls that literally saved north of $3k with travel time, air fare,
hotel, taxis and so on.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
J

Joerg

Guest
On 2020-07-30 05:38, Martin Brown wrote:
On 29/07/2020 19:29, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 11:08, Ricketty C wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:35:46 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

That can be tough online. I found that when 10 time zones away the
latency can be hard to overcome. Depends a bit on country and
infrastructure on the other side(s). I have a 75Mbps link but some
don\'t. You almost have to say \"Over\" at the end of your
transmission. However, I found it all works well in the end.

We have that sort of scattering with people in California and in
eastern Europe. No latency issues... I mean really? Latency is only
an issue when you have a local problem these days.

It\'s a long distance issue. The packets get routed via all sorts of
infrastructure along the way. Do a ping to a European web site and
mostly you find something north of 150msec. Add to that latencies in
the computers themselves and it becomes easy for people to fall into
someone else speaking.

That is unusually slow! I have rural ADSL at 5Mbps on a good day and
routinely get US pings between 50 and 80ms.
That is probably US East Coast. Try a small company server in California
or Oregon. It\'s got nothing to do with your local connection, assuming
that is an up-to-snuff broadband hookup.


... My line is so slow and with
interleaving error correction enabled the fastest I can get for London
is 40ms and 55ms is more typical (with almost no variance). If fastpath
were enabled I would get about 20ms pings to London but it would be
hopelessly unreliable now (used to be OK). Line is failing gradually.
With DSL I had 6Mbps which was way more than I need so it rarely
mattered. Now I have a 75Mbps coax to fiber connection but ping times
haven\'t changed.


I notice that problem only when overseas parties are participating,
hardly ever with anyone is on the US West Coast.

I do see pings that are *much* slower to the US West coast than into the
East Coast or Chicago but the congestion is internal to the USA. You
just may be unlucky in your choice of European country or city but
German telecoms infrastructure should be OK.

For example, I just pinged my old health care provideer in Europe for
a test, 171-175msec. It is a very large company with good IT
infrastructure. Pinging Intel in California results in 12-17msec.

Try pinging somewhere physically on the US East coast and I expect you
will find >100ms delays to there too. Weirdly I just tried pinging
UCSD.edu and to my surprise got a 55ms ping response.
Large corporations and universities often have \"mirror\" servers in more
than one continent. The problem arises when they don\'t. It often depends
on where in the world you are. For example, to Japan I get 110-120msec
and it\'s probably more for you in the UK. Try pinging
http://ikuta-sanki.com, for example.


... We do on occasion
have bandwidth issues which are also local problems. I don\'t turn on
my video because of my Internet connection being poor in both latency
and bandwidth.

See? That\'s what I mean. IME the audio latency does not improve when
turning off the video. That we only do when the bandwidth on the other
side is too skimpy.

The audio quality sometimes goes haywire though with video on. Sort of
like a motorboat effect.
They should always, always prioritize audio over video. Video without
audio is typically useless. Audio without video allows the conference to
go on.


The goofy thing is the bandwidth issues show up first in the audio
rather than letting the video degrade. Without audio the whole thing
is pointless. We tried one of the other services because of the 40
minute meeting limitation on Zoom for free accounts and found the
other service was very blurry when the camera moved. Zoom was much
more clear. Maybe the other service was preserving bandwidth, lol.

That is one of my pet peeve. So far Zoom is one of the few services
where their engineers understand that audio is #1, always. Us guys in
the Signal Corps 40-some years ago already knew that back then.

It does look funny though when my wife\'s Zumba class loses video sync.
:)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
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