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Why do LEDs generate heat?

  • Thread starter Commander Kinsey
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Commander Kinsey

Guest
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:29:30 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:

> Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?

I got useful answers from Quora:

"LEDs are ever more and more efficient. In the last 40 years, tremendous strides have been made. They generate heat because they are conducting electricity through semiconductors. Unlike metals which have very little resistance to electric currents, semiconductors offer more resistance. Not as much as true nonmetals, but still more than metals. It is the resistance of the semiconductor layers, both N and P, and the resistance of the junction itself, that generate the heat."

"Every electronic device is less than 100 percent efficient. On a low level, it is due to the law of probability, or as the physicists call it, entropy. The odds of all those electrons conveying their energy into photons is very low. Some are always making random transitions, generating heat instead of light."
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:29:30 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the abnormal sociopathic attention whore's latest idiotic
attention-baiting bullshit unread again>

So you HAD to crosspost your newest bait to FOUR different groups again,
just so you could get all the more attention, you attention-starved,
sociopathic wanker!

--
damduck-egg@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb@4ax.com>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38@googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397@fx10.am4>

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2@4ax.com>

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist."
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk@4ax.com>

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d@giganews.com>

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID: <obru31$nao$3@dont-email.me>

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0@googlegroups.com>

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db@dell3100.workgroup>

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1@dont-email.me>

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars>

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF@news.eternal-september.org>

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

--
thekmanrocks@gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9@googlegroups.com>

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512@news.eternal-september.org>

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID: <orree6$on2$1@dont-email.me>

--
Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1@gioia.aioe.org>

--
clare@snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8@4ax.com>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1@dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa@googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2@dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme@jaka.local>
 
R

Rod Speed

Guest
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote

> Why do LEDs generate heat?

Because not all the electricity used is turned into light.

I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient".
And will we ever make them more efficient?
Very likely with the higher powered leds.
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:09:32 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient".
And will we ever make them more efficient?

Very likely with the higher powered leds.
You two idiots had better wonder whether they will ever find a cure for
psychopathy and sociopathy which you deranged idiots keep exhibiting here!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
 
R

Robert

Guest
On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:29:42 +0100, Robert <robert@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.
True, but it's the LEDs themselves that are the warmest, and also the most susceptible to heat.
 
N

NY

Guest
"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:eek:p.z83kvpd1wdg98l@picard.lan...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:29:42 +0100, Robert <robert@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.

True, but it's the LEDs themselves that are the warmest, and also the most
susceptible to heat.
But if you feel a Philips Hue bulb which is the size of an old tungsten 100W
bulb, the part that gives off light (presumably where the LEDs are) is cool.
It is the neck, near the fitting, which gets hot - and I presume that's
where the PSU is.

Likewise for GU10 bulbs (Philips Hue or ordinary non-dimmable LED) the front
and conical sides don't get hot, whereas the neck near the fitting gets hot.
 
R

Rod Speed

Guest
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:qn5fss$ca3$1@dont-email.me...
"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:eek:p.z83kvpd1wdg98l@picard.lan...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:29:42 +0100, Robert <robert@invalid.invalid
wrote:

On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.

True, but it's the LEDs themselves that are the warmest, and also the
most susceptible to heat.

But if you feel a Philips Hue bulb which is the size of an old tungsten
100W bulb, the part that gives off light (presumably where the LEDs are)
is cool.
Mine isnt, its warmer than me.

It is the neck, near the fitting, which gets hot - and I presume that's
where the PSU is.

Likewise for GU10 bulbs (Philips Hue or ordinary non-dimmable LED) the
front and conical sides don't get hot, whereas the neck near the fitting
gets hot.
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 19:29:42 +0100, Robert, another brain dead,
troll-feeding, seinile idiot, blathered:


Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.
Yet another senile idiot who doesn't get what's going on here! <BG>
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 19:50:02 +0100, NY, the notorious, troll-feeding senile
idiot, blathered again:


But if you feel a Philips Hue bulb which is the size of an old tungsten 100W
bulb, the part that gives off light (presumably where the LEDs are) is cool.
It is the neck, near the fitting, which gets hot - and I presume that's
where the PSU is.

Likewise for GU10 bulbs (Philips Hue or ordinary non-dimmable LED) the front
and conical sides don't get hot, whereas the neck near the fitting gets hot.
So, for how long will you idiots still go on like that again? Until the
sociopathic attention whore is fed up with you again? Will you troll-feeding
senile idiots NEVER learn?
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 05:12:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


But if you feel a Philips Hue bulb which is the size of an old tungsten
100W bulb, the part that gives off light (presumably where the LEDs are)
is cool.

Mine isnt, its warmer than me.
LOL! Auto-contradicting senile idiot! Let's all hope that you'll SOON reach
room temperature!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.dlg@sqwertz.com>
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:50:02 +0100, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:eek:p.z83kvpd1wdg98l@picard.lan...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:29:42 +0100, Robert <robert@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.

True, but it's the LEDs themselves that are the warmest, and also the most
susceptible to heat.

But if you feel a Philips Hue bulb which is the size of an old tungsten 100W
bulb, the part that gives off light (presumably where the LEDs are) is cool.
It is the neck, near the fitting, which gets hot - and I presume that's
where the PSU is.
Or where the heatsink from the LEDs is.

Likewise for GU10 bulbs (Philips Hue or ordinary non-dimmable LED) the front
and conical sides don't get hot, whereas the neck near the fitting gets hot.
 
C

Colonel Edmund J. Burke

Guest
On 10/3/2019 6:49 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:29:30 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:

Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?

I got useful answers from Quora:

"LEDs are ever more and more efficient. In the last 40 years, tremendous strides have been made. They generate heat because they are conducting electricity through semiconductors. Unlike metals which have very little resistance to electric currents, semiconductors offer more resistance. Not as much as true nonmetals, but still more than metals. It is the resistance of the semiconductor layers, both N and P, and the resistance of the junction itself, that generate the heat."

"Every electronic device is less than 100 percent efficient. On a low level, it is due to the law of probability, or as the physicists call it, entropy. The odds of all those electrons conveying their energy into photons is very low. Some are always making random transitions, generating heat instead of light."
I wish you'd make a "random transition" the fuck outa here, limey asshole!
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 22:21:00 +0100, Colonel Edmund J. Burke <Your_Colonel@usa.com> wrote:

On 10/3/2019 6:49 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:29:30 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:

Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?

I got useful answers from Quora:

"LEDs are ever more and more efficient. In the last 40 years, tremendous strides have been made. They generate heat because they are conducting electricity through semiconductors. Unlike metals which have very little resistance to electric currents, semiconductors offer more resistance. Not as much as true nonmetals, but still more than metals. It is the resistance of the semiconductor layers, both N and P, and the resistance of the junction itself, that generate the heat."

"Every electronic device is less than 100 percent efficient. On a low level, it is due to the law of probability, or as the physicists call it, entropy. The odds of all those electrons conveying their energy into photons is very low. Some are always making random transitions, generating heat instead of light."

I wish you'd make a "random transition" the fuck outa here, limey asshole!
Learn to use a killfile.
 
M

Mark Lloyd

Guest
On 10/3/19 1:29 PM, Robert wrote:
On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.
I have a LED bulb (60W equivalent) in a lamp here. The bulb itself
doesn't get hot like an incandescent bulb does. What gets hot is an area
around the base.

--
82 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"You didn't hear it You didn't see it..." ...how absurd it all seems
without any proof" -- from "Tommy" by 'The Who'
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 20:32:33 +0100, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 10/3/19 1:29 PM, Robert wrote:
On 03/10/2019 14:29, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Why do LEDs generate heat? I want a technical answer not "because
they're inefficient". And will we ever make them more efficient?
Besides the inefficiencies in the LED itself which other posters have
covered, LED lamps have some current regulation or power supply built-in
which will not be 100% efficient and thus generates heat.

I have a LED
That irritates me, why don't you write "an LED"? How do you say "LED"? I say "Ell Eee Dee", not "Light Emitting Diode". So it needs an "an", not an "a".

> bulb (60W equivalent) in a lamp here.

60W? Are you a Klingon and love darkness? I use 100W and 150W bulbs only. And lots of them. My living room (7 metres by 4 metres) contains 13 90W bulbs.

The bulb itself
doesn't get hot like an incandescent bulb does. What gets hot is an area
around the base.
Through the heatsink probably, most of the heat is generated by the LEDs, not the far more efficient power supply.
 
M

Mark Lloyd

Guest
On 10/4/19 2:51 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

I have a LED

That irritates me, why don't you write "an LED"?  How do you say "LED"?
I say "Ell Eee Dee", not "Light Emitting Diode".  So it needs an "an",
not an "a".
"an LED" irritates me. I know the word is "light".

bulb (60W equivalent) in a lamp here.

60W?  Are you a Klingon and love darkness?  I use 100W and 150W bulbs
only.  And lots of them.  My living room (7 metres by 4 metres) contains
13 90W bulbs.
It also matters if the light source is in the right place, like from
behind is good if you're reading or watching TV.

Some people think more light is always better. I remember working behind
a TV (26-inch CRT console), where I could see OK. Then someone, trying
to be helpful, turned on a nearby wall lamp. The effect of that is that
the area behind the TV became completely BLACK.

[snip]

--
81 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Tinnitus is a pain in the neck"
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Sat, 05 Oct 2019 19:46:08 +0100, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 10/4/19 2:51 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

I have a LED

That irritates me, why don't you write "an LED"? How do you say "LED"?
I say "Ell Eee Dee", not "Light Emitting Diode". So it needs an "an",
not an "a".

"an LED" irritates me. I know the word is "light".
But which would you say if you read the sentence out loud? Do you say the letters like me, or do you say the full words? I say "DVLA" not "Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority"

bulb (60W equivalent) in a lamp here.

60W? Are you a Klingon and love darkness? I use 100W and 150W bulbs
only. And lots of them. My living room (7 metres by 4 metres) contains
13 90W bulbs.

It also matters if the light source is in the right place, like from
behind is good if you're reading or watching TV.
I prefer the whole room to be evenly lit.

Some people think more light is always better. I remember working behind
a TV (26-inch CRT console), where I could see OK. Then someone, trying
to be helpful, turned on a nearby wall lamp. The effect of that is that
the area behind the TV became completely BLACK.
More light is better if the whole room is lit evenly. Which is why I prefer strip lights to point sources. Much better if you're soldering for example, you don't create shadows, as light can come to the workpiece from all angles, no matter where your body/head/hands/tools are.
 
P

Peeler

Guest
On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 13:46:08 -0500, Mark Lloyd, another absolutely brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile cretin, drivelled:

"an LED" irritates me. I know the word is "light".
You must about as big an idiot as the retarded troll you keep feeding,
senile cretin! LOL
 
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