What's wrong with this schematic....

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · May 4, 2005

...or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: Eight. Twelve if the light bulb is cross-threaded.

Don Pearce · May 4, 2005

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

Well it is for relay coil protection. I don't think I've ever seen a
better-protected relay coil.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Spehro Pefhany · May 4, 2005

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:51:50 GMT, the renowned donald@pearce.uk.com
(Don Pearce) wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

Well it is for relay coil protection. I don't think I've ever seen a
better-protected relay coil.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Yes, if the open DO doesn't protect it, the dead short across the coil
surely will. ;-)

However, it implies it's only an issue when "multiple inductive
devices in parallel" are wired to one DO, so if you just have one big
honking solenoid, you're fine.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

John Fields · May 4, 2005

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

<QUOTE>
After having viewed this page:

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

It appears that your current measuring equipment is connected in
parallel with the mains. If that's so, how does it measure current?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
<END QUOTE>

will explain it all.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Rich Grise · May 5, 2005

On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:05:48 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

QUOTE
After having viewed this page:

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

It appears that your current measuring equipment is connected in
parallel with the mains. If that's so, how does it measure current?

Maybe the "Veris Current Sensor Relay Coil" is that multiple inductive
load they're talking about - it's in parallel with the "AC Relay Coil",
as far as I can see.

Thanks,
Rich

Spehro Pefhany · May 5, 2005

On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:05:48 -0500, the renowned John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

QUOTE
After having viewed this page:

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

It appears that your current measuring equipment is connected in
parallel with the mains. If that's so, how does it measure current?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
END QUOTE

will explain it all.

Actually, I think that part of it's okay. The current sensor pickup
is a CT, but it also requires 24VAC/DC @10mA to operate. Drawing that
auxilliary supply from the contactor coil voltage is one way to do it.

http://www.veris.com/pdf/cs/proving/hp/pv-digital/h735_i0d.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

John Woodgate · May 5, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote (in
<7chi71dt3g5l7g8h8o4lfcbduou8dqvcr3@4ax.com&gt

about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Wed, 4 May 2005:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian
P.E."<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

Why did you not mention the complete short-circuit at the right-hand end
of the schematic?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Fred Bloggs · May 5, 2005

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

There's nothing "wrong" with the circuit because it isn't a circuit. It
is a notional illustration of types of loads producing "kickback"
paralleled by types of components that suppress "kickback"- the
multitude of devices should have been a clue.

Rich Grise · May 5, 2005

On Thu, 05 May 2005 08:14:36 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote (in
7chi71dt3g5l7g8h8o4lfcbduou8dqvcr3@4ax.com&gt about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Wed, 4 May 2005:
On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian
P.E."<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

Why did you not mention the complete short-circuit at the right-hand end
of the schematic?

Nobody saw it until you pointed it out.

--
Cheers!
Rich

John Fields · May 5, 2005

On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:14:36 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote (in
7chi71dt3g5l7g8h8o4lfcbduou8dqvcr3@4ax.com&gt about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Wed, 4 May 2005:
On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:47:08 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian
P.E."<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

---
Perhaps a reply to this email, which I sent to support@veris.com

Why did you not mention the complete short-circuit at the right-hand end
of the schematic?

---
LOL, I didn't even see it!!!

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

amdxjunk · May 5, 2005

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:427934CC.A57C55CA@Hovnanian.com...

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

When the 24vac switch is closed no current is supplied to the circuit. See
upper left corner of circuit.

John Woodgate · May 5, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that amdxjunk
<nojunk@knology.?.invalid> wrote (in
<78ca6$427a6062$18d64e32$18825@KNOLOGY.NET&gt

about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Thu, 5 May 2005:

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:427934CC.A57C55CA@Hovnanian.com...
..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

When the 24vac switch is closed no current is supplied to the circuit. See
upper left corner of circuit.

That's to protect the 24 V supply from the short-circuit at the other

end.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Fred Bartoli · May 5, 2005

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> a écrit dans le message de
news:jC28INhvOmeCFwnU@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that amdxjunk
nojunk@knology.?.invalid> wrote (in
78ca6$427a6062$18d64e32$18825@KNOLOGY.NET&gt about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Thu, 5 May 2005:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:427934CC.A57C55CA@Hovnanian.com...
..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

When the 24vac switch is closed no current is supplied to the circuit.
See
upper left corner of circuit.

That's to protect the 24 V supply from the short-circuit at the other
end.

Which is here to protect the TVS that prevents the MOV from wearing off,
once the resistor in the RC has opened.

Clever...

--
Thanks,
Fred.

Carl D. Smith · May 6, 2005

On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:14:36 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

Why did you not mention the complete short-circuit at the right-hand end
of the schematic?

Wow. I didn't see it either. I was looking too hard for other
problems like the power switch that can't connect power to the
circuit.

Franc Zabkar · May 6, 2005

On Thu, 5 May 2005 19:19:27 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> put finger to keyboard and composed:

I read in sci.electronics.design that amdxjunk
nojunk@knology.?.invalid> wrote (in
78ca6$427a6062$18d64e32$18825@KNOLOGY.NET&gt about 'What's wrong with
this schematic....', on Thu, 5 May 2005:
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:427934CC.A57C55CA@Hovnanian.com...
..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

When the 24vac switch is closed no current is supplied to the circuit. See
upper left corner of circuit.

That's to protect the 24 V supply from the short-circuit at the other
end.

The missing link was fusible.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · May 6, 2005

Fred Bloggs wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

There's nothing "wrong" with the circuit because it isn't a circuit. It
is a notional illustration of types of loads producing "kickback"
paralleled by types of components that suppress "kickback"- the
multitude of devices should have been a clue.

The dead short is a particularly effective suppresser.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Big business never pays a nickel in taxes, according to Ralph Nader, who
represents a big consumer organization that never pays a nickel in
taxes.
-- Dave Barry

John Larkin · May 6, 2005

On Fri, 06 May 2005 16:05:35 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

There's nothing "wrong" with the circuit because it isn't a circuit. It
is a notional illustration of types of loads producing "kickback"
paralleled by types of components that suppress "kickback"- the
multitude of devices should have been a clue.

The dead short is a particularly effective suppresser.

And the open-circuit adds a confidence factor.

John

Fred Bartoli · May 7, 2005

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:427BF83F.2F3EF44B@Hovnanian.com...

Fred Bloggs wrote:

..or can just anyone put stuff on the internet?

http://www.veris.com/info/apps/app01.htm

There's nothing "wrong" with the circuit because it isn't a circuit. It
is a notional illustration of types of loads producing "kickback"
paralleled by types of components that suppress "kickback"- the
multitude of devices should have been a clue.

The dead short is a particularly effective suppresser.

Well, it depends on the number of turns.

--
Thanks,
Fred.

What's wrong with this schematic....

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

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