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On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 10:38:05 -0600, Dean Hoffman <deanhofman@clod.com
wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
At least they won\'t need to fake their emissions figures this time
around.
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 6:10:29 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 7:50:03 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/1/20 6:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
Maybe VW could resurrect the Beetle as an EV. It\'s the most
manufactured car made on a single platform. Over 21 million
were made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle
There are still some Baby Boomers left for the nostalgia
market. A lot of people travel alone anyhow.
I\'ve thought of converting a classic car. The Beetle is not at the top of my list, but I\'ve seen a Karmann Ghia that would be so cool to have in electric. The trouble is those cars have fond memories and may even look great, but in reality are pretty crap cars. They have really improved cars a LOT over the last 50 years. Besides, if you converted a Beetle you would have to add speakers to make that Beetle exhaust whistle.
But without a Tesla charging account, it wouldn\'t be worth it. Charging anything else would be such a PITA for me.
I can get by without.
If i build one, it should have both CCS and ChaDeMo. I just left the Volta HQ. They only have free CCS. Next to me was a Bolt, Tesla and another Leaf. The CCS was empty all along. Not sure why the Bolt didn\'t use it, but the Tesla and Leaf could have used ChaDeMo. On the other (east) side of the bridge and south side have free chargers with both plugs.
I think they should carry ChaDeMo for a few more years.
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact, the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
On 12/1/2020 11:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are
empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle
more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both -
freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year
old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get
in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of
managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and
motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be
getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is
precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and
suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US
among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product
in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the
top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a
Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the
speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while
power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I
don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how
big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few
seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact,
the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the
waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering
traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
Ya but you don\'t need a 600 hp motor for a sub 7 second 0-60 even in a
car the better part of two tons, the Chevy Bolt does it fine with a main
motor a bit shy of 200.
Nobody buys a 600 hp anything to be \"eco-friendly.\" The difference in
peak power output required to get from 9 to 7 is not much, from 7 to 5
or 4 is huge.
On 12/1/2020 11:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact, the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
Ya but you don\'t need a 600 hp motor for a sub 7 second 0-60 even in a
car the better part of two tons, the Chevy Bolt does it fine with a main
motor a bit shy of 200.
Nobody buys a 600 hp anything to be \"eco-friendly.\" The difference in
peak power output required to get from 9 to 7 is not much, from 7 to 5
or 4 is huge.
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:27:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 6:10:29 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 7:50:03 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/1/20 6:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
Maybe VW could resurrect the Beetle as an EV. It\'s the most
manufactured car made on a single platform. Over 21 million
were made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle
There are still some Baby Boomers left for the nostalgia
market. A lot of people travel alone anyhow.
I\'ve thought of converting a classic car. The Beetle is not at the top of my list, but I\'ve seen a Karmann Ghia that would be so cool to have in electric. The trouble is those cars have fond memories and may even look great, but in reality are pretty crap cars. They have really improved cars a LOT over the last 50 years. Besides, if you converted a Beetle you would have to add speakers to make that Beetle exhaust whistle.
But without a Tesla charging account, it wouldn\'t be worth it. Charging anything else would be such a PITA for me.
I can get by without.
Yeah, but you are the guy who is happy to wait for the sun to charge your battery. The rest of us have things we\'d like to do other than sitting by the road waiting for the car to gather energy from the sun, one electron at a time. That\'s why I don\'t look forward to a car that can\'t charge everywhere I want to go. Life is just to short to wait for slow charging.
If i build one, it should have both CCS and ChaDeMo. I just left the Volta HQ. They only have free CCS. Next to me was a Bolt, Tesla and another Leaf. The CCS was empty all along. Not sure why the Bolt didn\'t use it, but the Tesla and Leaf could have used ChaDeMo. On the other (east) side of the bridge and south side have free chargers with both plugs.
I think they should carry ChaDeMo for a few more years.
I\'m not sure, but the chargers VW is installing through Electrify America have two cables, but not for two cars simultaneously. I believe this is because there is no standardization of where the plug is on the cars. That\'s why Tesla chargers can use a much shorter cord, the jack is right there on that corner. Lower losses without using an insanely heavy cable. I believe the newer seriously high wattage units have water cooling in the cable. That\'s pretty insane, but I guess they don\'t want to bump up the voltage, likely creating reverse compatibility issues.
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 8:35:26 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:27:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 6:10:29 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail..com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 7:50:03 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/1/20 6:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
Maybe VW could resurrect the Beetle as an EV. It\'s the most
manufactured car made on a single platform. Over 21 million
were made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle
There are still some Baby Boomers left for the nostalgia
market. A lot of people travel alone anyhow.
I\'ve thought of converting a classic car. The Beetle is not at the top of my list, but I\'ve seen a Karmann Ghia that would be so cool to have in electric. The trouble is those cars have fond memories and may even look great, but in reality are pretty crap cars. They have really improved cars a LOT over the last 50 years. Besides, if you converted a Beetle you would have to add speakers to make that Beetle exhaust whistle.
But without a Tesla charging account, it wouldn\'t be worth it. Charging anything else would be such a PITA for me.
I can get by without.
Yeah, but you are the guy who is happy to wait for the sun to charge your battery. The rest of us have things we\'d like to do other than sitting by the road waiting for the car to gather energy from the sun, one electron at a time. That\'s why I don\'t look forward to a car that can\'t charge everywhere I want to go. Life is just to short to wait for slow charging.
If i build one, it should have both CCS and ChaDeMo. I just left the Volta HQ. They only have free CCS. Next to me was a Bolt, Tesla and another Leaf. The CCS was empty all along. Not sure why the Bolt didn\'t use it, but the Tesla and Leaf could have used ChaDeMo. On the other (east) side of the bridge and south side have free chargers with both plugs.
I think they should carry ChaDeMo for a few more years.
I\'m not sure, but the chargers VW is installing through Electrify America have two cables, but not for two cars simultaneously. I believe this is because there is no standardization of where the plug is on the cars. That\'s why Tesla chargers can use a much shorter cord, the jack is right there on that corner. Lower losses without using an insanely heavy cable. I believe the newer seriously high wattage units have water cooling in the cable. That\'s pretty insane, but I guess they don\'t want to bump up the voltage, likely creating reverse compatibility issues.
My fingers are not cooperating with my brain.The ChaDeMo port is right in front of the car, nowhere else. I have seen Tesla backing into charger. Location of charging port is not an issue. VW/EA have two ports for CCS and ChaDeMo because they are pushing for CCS while still supporting ChaDeMo. Except that they don\'t even have any CCS car to push for at the moment.
Another thread
Volta / Shell\'s Greenlots app issues deserve any thread for discussion.
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 8:35:26 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:27:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 6:10:29 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail..com wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 7:50:03 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/1/20 6:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
Maybe VW could resurrect the Beetle as an EV. It\'s the most
manufactured car made on a single platform. Over 21 million
were made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle
There are still some Baby Boomers left for the nostalgia
market. A lot of people travel alone anyhow.
I\'ve thought of converting a classic car. The Beetle is not at the top of my list, but I\'ve seen a Karmann Ghia that would be so cool to have in electric. The trouble is those cars have fond memories and may even look great, but in reality are pretty crap cars. They have really improved cars a LOT over the last 50 years. Besides, if you converted a Beetle you would have to add speakers to make that Beetle exhaust whistle.
But without a Tesla charging account, it wouldn\'t be worth it. Charging anything else would be such a PITA for me.
I can get by without.
Yeah, but you are the guy who is happy to wait for the sun to charge your battery. The rest of us have things we\'d like to do other than sitting by the road waiting for the car to gather energy from the sun, one electron at a time. That\'s why I don\'t look forward to a car that can\'t charge everywhere I want to go. Life is just to short to wait for slow charging.
If i build one, it should have both CCS and ChaDeMo. I just left the Volta HQ. They only have free CCS. Next to me was a Bolt, Tesla and another Leaf. The CCS was empty all along. Not sure why the Bolt didn\'t use it, but the Tesla and Leaf could have used ChaDeMo. On the other (east) side of the bridge and south side have free chargers with both plugs.
I think they should carry ChaDeMo for a few more years.
I\'m not sure, but the chargers VW is installing through Electrify America have two cables, but not for two cars simultaneously. I believe this is because there is no standardization of where the plug is on the cars. That\'s why Tesla chargers can use a much shorter cord, the jack is right there on that corner. Lower losses without using an insanely heavy cable. I believe the newer seriously high wattage units have water cooling in the cable. That\'s pretty insane, but I guess they don\'t want to bump up the voltage, likely creating reverse compatibility issues.
The ChaDeMo port is right in front of the car, nowhere else. I have seen Tesla backing into charger. Location of charging port is not an issue. VW/EA have two ports for CCS and ChaDeMo because they are pushing for CCS while still supporting ChaDeMo. Except that they don\'t even have any CCS car to push for at the moment.
Volta / Shell\'s Greenlots app issues deserve any thread for discussion.
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020 at 1:49:13 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 11:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact, the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
Ya but you don\'t need a 600 hp motor for a sub 7 second 0-60 even in a
car the better part of two tons, the Chevy Bolt does it fine with a main
motor a bit shy of 200.
Nobody buys a 600 hp anything to be \"eco-friendly.\" The difference in
peak power output required to get from 9 to 7 is not much, from 7 to 5
or 4 is huge.
Yeah, but to go from 0 to 60 sub 4 seconds in a 3 ton car, you do need 600 hp.
The car is still pretty light on fuel. I get under 300 Wh/mi in most driving and it costs a LOT less than buying gas in any car I\'ve ever owned (maybe not my Suzuki 90cc bike which I could fill the tank for a quarter, circa 1970). It\'s hard to imagine the fuel cost being so low if it isn\'t actually much more fuel efficient. Actually people have done those calculations and EVs, even the big Teslas, use much less fuel from the energy source and produce around half the carbon. Once electricity generation is mostly renewable the carbon emissions will drop toward zero which is why they are a called zero emissions vehicles.
EVs are so not like gas guzzlers. You can have a metric shit ton of power and not have it whack your mileage on every mile (1.6 km) you drive. Do they still call it \"mileage\" when you measure it metrically?
On 12/2/2020 4:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020 at 1:49:13 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 11:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact, the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
Ya but you don\'t need a 600 hp motor for a sub 7 second 0-60 even in a
car the better part of two tons, the Chevy Bolt does it fine with a main
motor a bit shy of 200.
Nobody buys a 600 hp anything to be \"eco-friendly.\" The difference in
peak power output required to get from 9 to 7 is not much, from 7 to 5
or 4 is huge.
Yeah, but to go from 0 to 60 sub 4 seconds in a 3 ton car, you do need 600 hp.
The car is still pretty light on fuel. I get under 300 Wh/mi in most driving and it costs a LOT less than buying gas in any car I\'ve ever owned (maybe not my Suzuki 90cc bike which I could fill the tank for a quarter, circa 1970). It\'s hard to imagine the fuel cost being so low if it isn\'t actually much more fuel efficient. Actually people have done those calculations and EVs, even the big Teslas, use much less fuel from the energy source and produce around half the carbon. Once electricity generation is mostly renewable the carbon emissions will drop toward zero which is why they are a called zero emissions vehicles.
EVs are so not like gas guzzlers. You can have a metric shit ton of power and not have it whack your mileage on every mile (1.6 km) you drive. Do they still call it \"mileage\" when you measure it metrically?
I\'m skeptical whether renewables can ever support technological
civilization in the fashion to which we\'ve become accustomed. My
intuition is that when fossil fuels run out the human race goes extinct.
But I\'ve been wrong before - hope so!
I\'m skeptical whether renewables can ever support technological
civilization in the fashion to which we\'ve become accustomed. My
intuition is that when fossil fuels run out the human race goes extinct.
But I\'ve been wrong before - hope so!
Again, even the Tesla Roadster and Cybertruck have 200kWh batteries - they may be able to take up to about twice the power of existing vehicles while charging. The wiring would then be the limit.
What wiring??? They have 250 kW charges in the field now. I seem to recall reading of a new station the other day that was some large number of units and all V3, 250 kW.
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 19:27:20 UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Again, even the Tesla Roadster and Cybertruck have 200kWh batteries - they may be able to take up to about twice the power of existing vehicles while charging. The wiring would then be the limit.
What wiring??? They have 250 kW charges in the field now. I seem to recall reading of a new station the other day that was some large number of units and all V3, 250 kW.
The wiring from the charger to the battery, both internal and external, including the connector.
The connector is the main limit - uncooled CCS connectors are rated at 200A, Tesla pushes theirs to 300A even though there are no significant design differences. Cooled CCS connectors are rated at 500A.
Where do you find such chargers for the Porsche? At the dealer?
Electrify America\'s chargers support CCS up to 350kW. They are all over the US. Not as good a coverage as Tesla but pretty good. I see they have one only about 1/2mile from me. (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/)
Now you are being a bit silly. 1% reduction of the car weight (is that wet or dry? lol) is only meaningful to a race car driver where they win or lose by inches. I guess the Porsche could be made with an 89 kWh battery.
A weight reduction of a car is worth quite a few dollars per pound. A friend used to work for Ford Heavy Truck division and he recounted how they would even weigh every nut, bolt, washer etc to determine and control vehicle weight - it is important for all vehicles.
There is no point in focusing on any one detail of a car. A car is a whole and only has meaning when considering all the parts. Tesla has done a great job of considering nearly every aspect of owning an EV. But in some few years nearly everyone will be selling EVs in numbers and nearly everyone will be buying them and charging in their garage on a 6 kW charger.
I\'m not criticizing Tesla, I have one, it\'s performance and design is very good with few shortcomings.
Definitely, it is the overall design that is important but going to a higher voltage has now become much cheaper because of, among other things high voltage silicon carbide FETs, which allows options that weren\'t economically available previously and can improve the design and user appeal.
Even though most charging occurs at home ( I\'ve only used Superchargers a handful of times) reducing the charging time not only adds to the user experience but increases the return on the charging infrastructure investment as they can charge a greater number of vehicles in a given time.
Volta / Shell\'s Greenlots app issues deserve any thread for discussion.
It seems manufacturers have chosen all four corners of the car as well as front center.
https://www.atlismotorvehicles.com/post/charge-port-location-matters
....
I\'m not sure, but the chargers VW is installing through Electrify America have two cables, but not for two cars simultaneously. I believe this is because there is no standardization of where the plug is on the cars. That\'s why Tesla chargers can use a much shorter cord, the jack is right there on that corner. Lower losses without using an insanely heavy cable. I believe the newer seriously high wattage units have water cooling in the cable. That\'s pretty insane, but I guess they don\'t want to bump up the voltage, likely creating reverse compatibility issues.
....
On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 20:35:26 UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
...
I\'m not sure, but the chargers VW is installing through Electrify America have two cables, but not for two cars simultaneously. I believe this is because there is no standardization of where the plug is on the cars. That\'s why Tesla chargers can use a much shorter cord, the jack is right there on that corner. Lower losses without using an insanely heavy cable. I believe the newer seriously high wattage units have water cooling in the cable. That\'s pretty insane, but I guess they don\'t want to bump up the voltage, likely creating reverse compatibility issues.
...
Most CCS stations that currently exist are limited to 500V (Tesla is similar). So most EVs use a nominal 400V system (300-450V or so over SOC) at up to ~200A (300A for Tesla).
The Porsche Taycan has an 800V system and can use either the existing CCS at 400V or the future version of CCS that supports up to ~850V.
Other vehicles will undoubtedly follow.
On 12/2/2020 4:17 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020 at 1:49:13 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 11:40 PM, Rick C wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 9:30:00 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 7:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:55:51 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 12/1/2020 1:22 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 10:15:06 AM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 12/1/2020 12:27 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:11:38 -0800 (PST), Brent Locher
blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:38:16 AM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
VW hired Alexander Hitzinger to develop
a new EV.
Is this wishful thinking?
\"Having a small team of highly qualified engineers, who are empowered to
take decisions unencumbered by the corporate bureaucracy of the
Volkswagen empire, should end up producing a better vehicle more quickly.\"
This is true when you have the right team. So you need both - freedom from bureaucracy and the right team.
The right team probably requires a whole bunch of 30ish year old engineers who are still too young to have their ego\'s get in the way of accomplishing the goal. And a good group of managers who care more about the product than their careers.
From
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-hitzinger-idUSKBN28B555
There\'s probably not much innovation needed; batteries and motors and
aerodynamics are known constraints. The critical thing will be getting
the people who know how to build cars involved, which is precisely the
existing VW empire. An EV still needs a good paint job and suspensions
that don\'t break and roofs that fit and don\'t fly off.
Volkswagen already built an electric Golf for sale in the US among other
places, it was about what you\'d expect from a Volkswagen product in the
US historically speaking, underpowered and overpriced.
You mean this e-Golf?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a31192023/the-volkswagen-e-golf-is-dead/
Ya, it had about a 100 mile range and was nearly 40 grand for the top trim.
\"and sprint from 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds.\"
an 8.5 second 0-60 in a car that weighs about 2800 lbs is nothing to
brag about.
Isn\'t wimpy peformance the way to Save The Earth? All that accel and
decel and driving over 55 MPH Wastes Resources.
A sub-7 second 0 to 60 burns about 100kW for 7 seconds, or around
1/2000th of the energy in a gallon of gas. And a gas car throws about
80% of the latter away as waste heat, anyway.
I don\'t have exact numbers, but mashing the pedal to the metal in a Tesla all but makes the gas gauge needle drop as it ramps up the speed. I2R losses go up with the square of the current you know while power only goes up linearly since the voltage is relatively fixed. I don\'t recall what I\'ve measured exactly, but it\'s pretty amazing how big a hit 600 HP can make in the battery charge even for a few seconds. It\'s not huge, but it\'s not microscopic either. In fact, the limitation of Teslas on the Autobahn seem to be dealing with the waste heat from having to ramp up and down in speed when encountering traffic. Otherwise they can run all day at very high speeds.
Ya but you don\'t need a 600 hp motor for a sub 7 second 0-60 even in a
car the better part of two tons, the Chevy Bolt does it fine with a main
motor a bit shy of 200.
Nobody buys a 600 hp anything to be \"eco-friendly.\" The difference in
peak power output required to get from 9 to 7 is not much, from 7 to 5
or 4 is huge.
Yeah, but to go from 0 to 60 sub 4 seconds in a 3 ton car, you do need 600 hp.
The car is still pretty light on fuel. I get under 300 Wh/mi in most driving and it costs a LOT less than buying gas in any car I\'ve ever owned (maybe not my Suzuki 90cc bike which I could fill the tank for a quarter, circa 1970). It\'s hard to imagine the fuel cost being so low if it isn\'t actually much more fuel efficient. Actually people have done those calculations and EVs, even the big Teslas, use much less fuel from the energy source and produce around half the carbon. Once electricity generation is mostly renewable the carbon emissions will drop toward zero which is why they are a called zero emissions vehicles.
EVs are so not like gas guzzlers. You can have a metric shit ton of power and not have it whack your mileage on every mile (1.6 km) you drive. Do they still call it \"mileage\" when you measure it metrically?
I\'m skeptical whether renewables can ever support technological
civilization in the fashion to which we\'ve become accustomed. My
intuition is that when fossil fuels run out the human race goes extinct.
But I\'ve been wrong before - hope so!
Nothing lasts forever...
....Other vehicles will undoubtedly follow.
I don\'t know why. Tesla certainly is not likely to change. You cite volts and amp but what matters is watts, related, but not the same. Tesla has 250 kW chargers that charge a car only slightly faster than the 150 kW chargers because the limitation is currently the batteries, not the chargers. So there is no real need to up the voltage for charging unless it\'s just because that\'s what the car demands. Give it another 5 years is what I say. Let the dust settle so the trends are more visible. Also, don\'t think of anything in EVs as being static. They will likely change dramatically over the next decade or two as new technologies are developed.
On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 14:55:39 UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
..
Other vehicles will undoubtedly follow.
I don\'t know why. Tesla certainly is not likely to change. You cite volts and amp but what matters is watts, related, but not the same. Tesla has 250 kW chargers that charge a car only slightly faster than the 150 kW chargers because the limitation is currently the batteries, not the chargers. So there is no real need to up the voltage for charging unless it\'s just because that\'s what the car demands. Give it another 5 years is what I say. Let the dust settle so the trends are more visible. Also, don\'t think of anything in EVs as being static. They will likely change dramatically over the next decade or two as new technologies are developed.
...
As you say it is the power that is important but the current is limited by multiple things, not just the batteries. Increasing the voltage increases the maximum power for the same current. Modern semiconductors and insulation allow more than the 400V used at the moment.