UHF reception relay

Guest
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.
 
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?
Click to expand...

If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.
 
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?
Click to expand...

Of course if it has only recently become poor, and suddenly become
poor, then it might be due to interference from 4G.

If so then at800 /must/ provide you with an alternative means of
receiving TV (whatever that means), up to a cost of Ł10000 per
home.

If it is 4G related, *please* inform us and everybody else of
how well at800 does or doesn't do their job.
 
On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,

--
umop apisdn
 
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.
 
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:30:00 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Of course if it has only recently become poor, and suddenly become
poor, then it might be due to interference from 4G.

If so then at800 /must/ provide you with an alternative means of
receiving TV (whatever that means), up to a cost of ÂŁ10000 per
home.

If it is 4G related, *please* inform us and everybody else of
how well at800 does or doesn't do their job.
Click to expand...

The reception has been poor ever since the transition to digital TV.
There is also a railroad track nearby, and whenever a train goes by,
out line of sight to the transmitting stations in our area is blocked
by big metal objects--i.e. the train. What I contemplate is a relay
mounted on the roof that can catch the signal up high, and then send
it down into the house.
 
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:27:07 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.
Click to expand...
The set-up that I am contemplating would direct the signals down toward
my house, at low power. I think this would not be a legal problem, as
the signals would be at the level of common FM transmitters for use
with mp3 players.
 
On 8 Oct 2014 09:16:44 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I have in mind. Are there any plans and schematics
on the web that I could use?
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:01:48 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.
Click to expand...

That's the idea, although I would like to build in some signal boost
capability. And I would like to use typical, compact DTV antennas.
Know of any examples or plans I could copy?
 
On 08/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:27:07 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.

The set-up that I am contemplating would direct the signals down toward
my house, at low power. I think this would not be a legal problem, as
the signals would be at the level of common FM transmitters for use
with mp3 players.
Click to expand...

What you and I think is irrelevant.

What the law says is relevant, as is the probability of being
discovered and taken to court.

I suspect that merely reflecting or diverting incident power
would not be classed a transmitter. Any active amplification
might be a problem.
 
On 08/10/14 20:42, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
On 8 Oct 2014 09:16:44 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,

That's exactly what I have in mind. Are there any plans and schematics
on the web that I could use?
Click to expand...

Passive repeaters don't need any electricity. Your requirement for a
solar cell and battery indicates that you are /not/ thinking of a
passive repeater.

BTW, not having a cable won't prevent a lightning strike.

Cables (in the form of lightning conductors) do *reduce*
the probability of a lightning strike (as well as conducting
a bolt to earth if lightning strikes)
..
 
On 08/10/14 20:44, kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:01:48 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.

That's the idea, although I would like to build in some signal boost
capability. And I would like to use typical, compact DTV antennas.
Know of any examples or plans I could copy?
Click to expand...

In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.
Click to expand...

I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output
being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that
oscillator.

also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just
some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.
 
On 08/10/14 23:50, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.

I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that oscillator.
Click to expand...

:)


> also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.

Lightning conductors actually /deflect/ the chance
of a lightning strike, since their sharp point tends
to /reduce/ the ionisation in the vicinity.

If there is a strike, the conductor tends to shunt
the current to ground.
 
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:15:56 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
In article <slrnm38gd7.6mj.kpgpbhdw@localhost.localdomain>,
kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

A normal mast-mounted amplifier with a low gain should work. They
usually run off 9 to 15 VDC @ 20mA. Lithium Iron Phosphate and Lead
Acid are the easiest types to charge. You can buy a solar recharger.

The hard part will be making sure that you're not illegally broadcasting
interference outside your property. The retransmission will be prone to
feedback, over-modulation, and multi-path.

I'd simply use a longer cable to where the signal is better.
Click to expand...

I was trying to avoid the cost and compexity of a lightning arrestor,
and the large size of most outdoor antennas. The input and output
antennas could be separated by a RF shield to prevent feedback. I am
located in the USA, not the UK. Here, low power transmitters don't
require a license. Since the incoming signal would be repeated exactly,
and redirected downward, there should be no effect on neighboring
receivers, other than perhaps to improve their reception.

I would still like to hear from anyone who has done something like what
I have in mind.
 
In article <slrnm38gd7.6mj.kpgpbhdw@localhost.localdomain>,
kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

A normal mast-mounted amplifier with a low gain should work. They
usually run off 9 to 15 VDC @ 20mA. Lithium Iron Phosphate and Lead
Acid are the easiest types to charge. You can buy a solar recharger.

The hard part will be making sure that you're not illegally broadcasting
interference outside your property. The retransmission will be prone to
feedback, over-modulation, and multi-path.

I'd simply use a longer cable to where the signal is better.

--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
because they host Usenet flooders.
 
In article <JIrZv.578562$ck2.152790@fx17.am4>,
Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/10/14 23:50, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk
wrote:

...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.

I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output
being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that
oscillator.

:)


also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just
some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.

Lightning conductors actually /deflect/ the chance
of a lightning strike, since their sharp point tends
to /reduce/ the ionisation in the vicinity.
Click to expand...

You've got that exactly backwards - pointy stuff increases both local
ionization, and the likelihood of an arc either hitting or jumping from
the pointy object.

This fact is why the folks who play with Tesla coils use either a ball
or a torus as the high-voltage output terminal on their coils - unless
they're trying for a specific type of directed discharge, of course.

The idea that a lightning rod should be pointy revolves around the
concept that the increased local ionization surrounding the sharp point
should cause the the lightning rod to be struck, and the current
directed down the attached conductor to ground, resulting in reduced or
no damage to whatever is being protected.

--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
 
On 09/10/14 17:21, Don Bruder wrote:
In article <JIrZv.578562$ck2.152790@fx17.am4>,
Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/10/14 23:50, RobertMacy wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk
wrote:

...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.

I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output
being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that
oscillator.

:)


also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just
some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.

Lightning conductors actually /deflect/ the chance
of a lightning strike, since their sharp point tends
to /reduce/ the ionisation in the vicinity.

You've got that exactly backwards - pointy stuff increases both local
ionization, and the likelihood of an arc either hitting or jumping from
the pointy object.

This fact is why the folks who play with Tesla coils use either a ball
or a torus as the high-voltage output terminal on their coils - unless
they're trying for a specific type of directed discharge, of course.

The idea that a lightning rod should be pointy revolves around the
concept that the increased local ionization surrounding the sharp point
should cause the the lightning rod to be struck, and the current
directed down the attached conductor to ground, resulting in reduced or
no damage to whatever is being protected.
Click to expand...

This is very very embarrassing. You are right.

Now I'm wondering where I got that misinformation from. Probably
school, although an inverted neuron might also be to blame.

Digging out my 1973 Physics textbook, it states; "The very high
density of charge [on lightning conductor tip] causes the charge
to flow upwards from the tip and so the opposite charge on the
clouds is slowly neutralised".

If wackypedia is anything to go by, perhaps that stems from
Benjamin Franklin's presumptions, and ignores Tesla's improvements.
Well, Tesla being ignored isn't exactly news :(
 
On 07/10/2014 23:30, Tom Gardner wrote:
Freeview is designed to be received with a roof mounted outdoor aerial.
Of course it's not going to work well with an indoor aerial.
Get a proper aerial fitted.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
 
On 06/11/14 23:29, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 07/10/2014 23:30, Tom Gardner wrote:
Freeview is designed to be received with a roof mounted outdoor aerial.
Of course it's not going to work well with an indoor aerial.
Get a proper aerial fitted.
Click to expand...

For the avoidance of doubt: I did /not/write that!

In fact your premise is false: Freeview has certain signal requirements, which
do not include antenna placement.

I know of an indoor antenna that has worked perfectly since 1990, i.e. for 24
years. Transmission distance: 24km, and in the diffraction zone of a hill
between the tx and rx.

Given that there will, at some stage, be several 4G base stations 1.5km away on
the direct line of sight (on top of a students' union buildign), it is probable
that even a /rooftop/ antenna will not work under those conditions. (That's
based on OFCOM's reports into tv rx overload characteristics, presumed base
station strength and path loss).
 
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