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\"Totally Awesome\"...

D

Don Y

Guest
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW
 
D

Dave Platt

Guest
In article <rjphh1$e18$1@dont-email.me>,
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!
Interesting - thanks! If it\'s the same product whose MSDS I just
looked up, it\'s water-based, with some surfactant, some Butyl Carbitol
as a solvent, and a not-inconsiderable amount of sodium metasilicate
and tetrasodium EDTA. The metasilicate is a strong alkali, so the
solution has a pH of 11-12. So, yeah, it should be an effective
degreaser, but in the \"wear gloves and eye shields\" category to avoid
personal injury.

Jasco\'s \"TSP substitute\" is a somewhat similar product (even stronger,
I think - more metasilicate, and a pH in the 12-13 range) and will
definitely take the shine off of paint and plastic.
 
C

Chris

Guest
On 09/15/20 05:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.
First thing I do as well. Then remove all covers, clean the
inside, blow out the dust etc Fan service, clean and
relube the bearings. Heat gun to warm up the labels to
remove, ipa to clean off the glue residue Check the
psu rails and then it\'s in a fit state to start work.
Puts me in the right frame of mind...

Chris


I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW
 
T

Tabby

Guest
On Tuesday, 15 September 2020 22:43:26 UTC+1, Chris wrote:
On 09/15/20 05:55, Don Y wrote:

I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

First thing I do as well. Then remove all covers, clean the
inside, blow out the dust etc Fan service, clean and
relube the bearings. Heat gun to warm up the labels to
remove, ipa to clean off the glue residue Check the
psu rails and then it\'s in a fit state to start work.
Puts me in the right frame of mind...

Chris



I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a turd.


NT
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/15/2020 2:34 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rjphh1$e18$1@dont-email.me>,
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

Interesting - thanks! If it\'s the same product whose MSDS I just
looked up, it\'s water-based, with some surfactant, some Butyl Carbitol
as a solvent, and a not-inconsiderable amount of sodium metasilicate
and tetrasodium EDTA. The metasilicate is a strong alkali, so the
solution has a pH of 11-12. So, yeah, it should be an effective
degreaser, but in the \"wear gloves and eye shields\" category to avoid
personal injury.

Jasco\'s \"TSP substitute\" is a somewhat similar product (even stronger,
I think - more metasilicate, and a pH in the 12-13 range) and will
definitely take the shine off of paint and plastic.
I use TSP when washing the roof prior to painting.

Both products leave me thinking they\'ve \"removed my fingerprints\"
(from my FINGERS!).

<http://www.lastotallyawesome.com/shop/all-purpose/awesome-all-purpose-concentrated-cleaner-128oz/>

....though I buy it in 20 oz \"spray\" bottles ($1).
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/15/2020 2:43 PM, Chris wrote:
On 09/15/20 05:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

First thing I do as well. Then remove all covers, clean the
inside, blow out the dust etc Fan service, clean and
relube the bearings. Heat gun to warm up the labels to
remove, ipa to clean off the glue residue Check the
psu rails and then it\'s in a fit state to start work.
Puts me in the right frame of mind...
For paper labels, I just apply mineral spirits directly to the label
and let it soak into -- and THROUGH -- the label. After a while, the
label just slides off. Many new labels are *plastic* so this doesn\'t
work. OTOH, being plastic, they tend to be stronger and, with patience,
can be peeled off intact -- then the residue cleaned (with spirits).

[I end up doing this with \"vitamin bottles\" almost weekly. We save the
bottles as they are small-ish and good for storing freshly squeezed
lemon juice prior to freezing -- the larger bottles that we use for
*orange* juice are too large given the rate at which lemon juice is
consumed relative to OJ!]

I\'ve found that spirits tend to be reasonably passive in terms
of damaging surfaces. Though I will step down to IPA when I
have to clean the residue off an artist\'s paint brush where a
label had previously been applied.

After spirits comes acetone -- but, usually when trying to clean up
something metallic.
 
C

Chris

Guest
On 09/15/20 23:34, Tabby wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 September 2020 22:43:26 UTC+1, Chris wrote:
On 09/15/20 05:55, Don Y wrote:

I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

First thing I do as well. Then remove all covers, clean the
inside, blow out the dust etc Fan service, clean and
relube the bearings. Heat gun to warm up the labels to
remove, ipa to clean off the glue residue Check the
psu rails and then it\'s in a fit state to start work.
Puts me in the right frame of mind...

Chris



I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW

I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a turd.


NT
If it\'s good quality kit, hp or tek, complete and no physical
damage, well yes, can almost definately be fixed. I might power
up for a quick test, but slowly on a variac.

Have kitted out a good proportion of the lab here by taking a
chance on older broken down kit and rarely been disappointed...

Chris
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
> I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will be
involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing that
would necessitate a cash outlay.

I\'ve learned that having a clean item is a small price to pay. Given
that you don\'t know where the item came from and how it was stored,
etc., you don\'t want to be screwing around with something (involving
physical contact, to some degree) before you know that it\'s \"clean\".

[Ever open something up to find rat droppings inside? Or, discover it
was used in a hospital setting -- and no longer maintained as \"sterile\"
as it\'s been discarded! \"Gee, why was this autoclave discarded?\"]
 
C

Chris

Guest
On 09/16/20 00:43, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 2:43 PM, Chris wrote:
On 09/15/20 05:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

First thing I do as well. Then remove all covers, clean the
inside, blow out the dust etc Fan service, clean and
relube the bearings. Heat gun to warm up the labels to
remove, ipa to clean off the glue residue Check the
psu rails and then it\'s in a fit state to start work.
Puts me in the right frame of mind...

For paper labels, I just apply mineral spirits directly to the label
and let it soak into -- and THROUGH -- the label. After a while, the
label just slides off. Many new labels are *plastic* so this doesn\'t
work. OTOH, being plastic, they tend to be stronger and, with patience,
can be peeled off intact -- then the residue cleaned (with spirits).

[I end up doing this with \"vitamin bottles\" almost weekly. We save the
bottles as they are small-ish and good for storing freshly squeezed
lemon juice prior to freezing -- the larger bottles that we use for
*orange* juice are too large given the rate at which lemon juice is
consumed relative to OJ!]

I\'ve found that spirits tend to be reasonably passive in terms
of damaging surfaces. Though I will step down to IPA when I
have to clean the residue off an artist\'s paint brush where a
label had previously been applied.

After spirits comes acetone -- but, usually when trying to clean up
something metallic.
Uase acetone at times, on metal, but pretty fatal for most plastics.
Use mek to rot epoxy encapsulation, but takes weeks and much of the
id from the internal parts...

Chris
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/15/2020 4:47 PM, Chris wrote:
On 09/15/20 23:34, Tabby wrote:

I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a turd.

If it\'s good quality kit, hp or tek, complete and no physical
damage, well yes, can almost definately be fixed. I might power
up for a quick test, but slowly on a variac.

Have kitted out a good proportion of the lab here by taking a
chance on older broken down kit and rarely been disappointed...
The vast majority of kit I find being recycled is PCs -- a firm
will do their 18 mos - 36 mos \"upgrade\" and dump 500 - 3000 PCs
into the recycle bin. And, those are the easiest things to
refurbish so that\'s where folks concentrate their (limited)
efforts.

So, when a piece of non-PC kit comes along, there\'s no \"market\"
for it (sure there is... but, having a spare \"warm body\" who can
recognize the value, perform rudimentary tests and then list it on
eBay, field questions, pack/ship is a lot of effort for *one* sale).
Most of this stuff gets set aside for me (as a courtesy) and, if
I am interested, I pay \"scrap prices\" -- typically 5c-10c / pound.

I\'ve got a nice herd of DSOs, LAs, etc. A fair bit of the kit that
I\'d rescued previously I\'ve since discarded (only so much space,
here, and I don\'t need to keep counters, ARBs, programmable loads,
etc. on-hand -- I can design around their absence!).

I did manage to keep a pair of Fluke 8846As cuz they are reasonably
small. Though, I don\'t think they\'ve seen more than an hour of
combined use in all the time I\'ve had them!

[DSOs and LAs see more use as I can use them to capture waveforms
to include in publications]

Only \"rule\" (for the courtesy extended to me) is that I can\'t
sell the stuff so anything that I \"discard\" goes back from whence
it came.

[I bend this slightly... I\'ve shipped 5 or 6 P6205s off to a
close friend for HIS personal use. I\'m repaid in \"favors\".
Amusing to pay $1 for each of them. And their nice little
cases make them easy to ship -- no \"packing\" necessary!]
 
T

Tabby

Guest
On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 00:50:50 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will be
involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing that
would necessitate a cash outlay.
Whether it\'s practical & worthwhile is the issue. Not everything is.

And if EVERYTHING is fixable, maybe you could tell all those people who have roundie tvs with dead CRTs how to repair them.


I\'ve learned that having a clean item is a small price to pay. Given
that you don\'t know where the item came from and how it was stored,
etc., you don\'t want to be screwing around with something (involving
physical contact, to some degree) before you know that it\'s \"clean\".
Yes I do.


[Ever open something up to find rat droppings inside? Or, discover it
was used in a hospital setting -- and no longer maintained as \"sterile\"
as it\'s been discarded! \"Gee, why was this autoclave discarded?\"]
Rodent droppings are common. Whole rodents less so for some reason. Nasty infections are sometimes included free of charge. Unfortunately that applies to pretty much everything.


NT
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/16/2020 5:47 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 00:50:50 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a
turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will be
involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing that
would necessitate a cash outlay.

Whether it\'s practical & worthwhile is the issue. Not everything is.
I\'ve not had any \"disappointments\" with any of the items I\'ve brought home,
cleaned up and THEN checked. By far, I\'ve discovered that most discarded kit
is functional and is just discarded because someone wanted (or needed) to
\"upgrade\". I\'ve rescued several items \"NIB\"!

I see probably 300 PCs each (and every) week. The only ones that aren\'t
easily rescued are those that have obvious \"missing parts\" (e.g., a laptop with
the drive sled omitted; a PC with the power supply pulled).

I have 6 \"smartphones\" rescued in this manner -- including an iPhone 6S and a
Droid MAXX 2. Usually \"locked\" when I get them but that\'s not an obstacle.

Would you like an artificial limb? (Unused) silicone breast implant?

And if EVERYTHING is fixable, maybe you could tell all those people who have
roundie tvs with dead CRTs how to repair them.
Pull a tube out of another scrapped TV as a replacement. PLENTY of those
lying around (you have to PAY to get someone to take it off your hands).
We used to scrap them in container lots!

I\'ve learned that having a clean item is a small price to pay. Given that
you don\'t know where the item came from and how it was stored, etc., you
don\'t want to be screwing around with something (involving physical
contact, to some degree) before you know that it\'s \"clean\".

Yes I do.

[Ever open something up to find rat droppings inside? Or, discover it was
used in a hospital setting -- and no longer maintained as \"sterile\" as
it\'s been discarded! \"Gee, why was this autoclave discarded?\"]

Rodent droppings are common. Whole rodents less so for some reason. Nasty
infections are sometimes included free of charge. Unfortunately that applies
to pretty much everything.
We\'ve found snakes, poisonous spiders, field mice, pack rats, etc. We\'ve
had cartons (3 cu ft) full of used \"suture kits\" (tiny little scissors).
The entire contents of dentist offices. (is all of this sterile??)
As I said, you have no idea where items came from.

Colleagues have developed MRSA and other fungal infections from handling items
without taking suitable precautions.
 
T

Tabby

Guest
On Thursday, 17 September 2020 02:18:40 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/16/2020 5:47 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 00:50:50 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning a
turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will be
involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing that
would necessitate a cash outlay.

Whether it\'s practical & worthwhile is the issue. Not everything is.

I\'ve not had any \"disappointments\" with any of the items I\'ve brought home,
cleaned up and THEN checked. By far, I\'ve discovered that most discarded kit
is functional and is just discarded because someone wanted (or needed) to
\"upgrade\". I\'ve rescued several items \"NIB\"!
IME while much is easy to sort if not already ok, some is definitely not worthwhile.


And if EVERYTHING is fixable, maybe you could tell all those people who have
roundie tvs with dead CRTs how to repair them.

Pull a tube out of another scrapped TV as a replacement.
That doesn\'t repair the crt. Since Hawkeye departed there seems to be no way to do them. Glassslinger probably knows how to, but I\'ve not seen him do a CRT repair.


PLENTY of those
lying around (you have to PAY to get someone to take it off your hands).
hardly, they\'re getting quite rare now. I have a roundie with great emission - the proverbial hen\'s tooth.


> We used to scrap them in container lots!

used to, yes.


I\'ve learned that having a clean item is a small price to pay. Given that
you don\'t know where the item came from and how it was stored, etc., you
don\'t want to be screwing around with something (involving physical
contact, to some degree) before you know that it\'s \"clean\".

Yes I do.

[Ever open something up to find rat droppings inside? Or, discover it was
used in a hospital setting -- and no longer maintained as \"sterile\" as
it\'s been discarded! \"Gee, why was this autoclave discarded?\"]

Rodent droppings are common. Whole rodents less so for some reason. Nasty
infections are sometimes included free of charge. Unfortunately that applies
to pretty much everything.

We\'ve found snakes, poisonous spiders, field mice, pack rats, etc. We\'ve
had cartons (3 cu ft) full of used \"suture kits\" (tiny little scissors).
The entire contents of dentist offices. (is all of this sterile??)
As I said, you have no idea where items came from.

Colleagues have developed MRSA and other fungal infections from handling items
without taking suitable precautions.
NT
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/17/2020 4:33 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 17 September 2020 02:18:40 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/16/2020 5:47 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 00:50:50 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning
a turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will
be involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing
that would necessitate a cash outlay.

Whether it\'s practical & worthwhile is the issue. Not everything is.

I\'ve not had any \"disappointments\" with any of the items I\'ve brought
home, cleaned up and THEN checked. By far, I\'ve discovered that most
discarded kit is functional and is just discarded because someone wanted
(or needed) to \"upgrade\". I\'ve rescued several items \"NIB\"!

IME while much is easy to sort if not already ok, some is definitely not
worthwhile.
As I said, I\'ve rarely taken the time to bring something home, clean it
and, later, be disappointed that the device was irreparable.

I won\'t, for example, drag a monitor home if it has a cracked screen.
OTOH, if it doesn\'t, it either \"works\", has bulging caps or bad FETs.
I won\'t waste my time on anything smaller than 24 inches so if I\'ve taken
the gamble, it\'s almost always worth a couple of dollars for replacement
parts (assuming there is ANYTHING wrong with it -- I\'ve a herd of 30\"
monitors that were apparently discarded because they \"fell out of fashion\")

And if EVERYTHING is fixable, maybe you could tell all those people who
have roundie tvs with dead CRTs how to repair them.

Pull a tube out of another scrapped TV as a replacement.

That doesn\'t repair the crt. Since Hawkeye departed there seems to be no way
to do them. Glassslinger probably knows how to, but I\'ve not seen him do a
CRT repair.
Replacing Q407 doesn\'t REPAIR the transistor; BUT, it likely repairs the device
in which the failed transistor resides!

PLENTY of those lying around (you have to PAY to get someone to take it
off your hands).

hardly, they\'re getting quite rare now. I have a roundie with great emission
- the proverbial hen\'s tooth.
Every week, someone tries to \"unload\" one in the hope that all he had to do
was DRIVE it over to us. Presently have a couple of shrink-wrapped pallets
(5ft high) of them on the property from a large commercial donor. *We*
don\'t like them as there\'s nothing ($$) in the transaction for us.

We used to scrap them in container lots!

used to, yes.
We now charge $25/tube. Far fewer people eager to LEGALLY dispose of them, in
this manner. Instead, they toss them in their weekly trash bin and hope the
trash man doesn\'t catch them.

Folks with rear projection TVs and oversized CRT (as well as LCD) can\'t resort
to this subterfuge so end up having to bring them in (and pay) *or* try to
give them away -- often CLAIMING they work (even if they don\'t).

I\'ve three 55\" LCD/LED TVs in the house that cost me a total of $0. (I won\'t
rescue one if it doesn\'t also have it\'s matching \"remote\" -- I\'d hate to
have to spend $5 for a replacement remote! :> ) Was tempted to rescue a 70\"
last week but there\'s a point where \"too big\" is just TOO BIG!
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
On 2020-09-15 00:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\").  Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness.  E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin.  And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics.  *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW
Is it better than Goo Gone? GG is citrus-based, and seems to get rid of
the schticky schtuff I usually encounter.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
T

Tabby

Guest
On Friday, 18 September 2020 03:14:09 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/17/2020 4:33 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 17 September 2020 02:18:40 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/16/2020 5:47 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 00:50:50 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
On 9/15/2020 3:34 PM, Tabby wrote:
I want to know if it\'s workable or fixable first. No point cleaning
a turd.

EVERYTHING is fixable. The question is how much time and money will
be involved. It\'s relatively easy to notice if \"parts\" are missing
that would necessitate a cash outlay.

Whether it\'s practical & worthwhile is the issue. Not everything is.

I\'ve not had any \"disappointments\" with any of the items I\'ve brought
home, cleaned up and THEN checked. By far, I\'ve discovered that most
discarded kit is functional and is just discarded because someone wanted
(or needed) to \"upgrade\". I\'ve rescued several items \"NIB\"!

IME while much is easy to sort if not already ok, some is definitely not
worthwhile.

As I said, I\'ve rarely taken the time to bring something home, clean it
and, later, be disappointed that the device was irreparable.

I won\'t, for example, drag a monitor home if it has a cracked screen.
OTOH, if it doesn\'t, it either \"works\", has bulging caps or bad FETs.
I won\'t waste my time on anything smaller than 24 inches so if I\'ve taken
the gamble, it\'s almost always worth a couple of dollars for replacement
parts (assuming there is ANYTHING wrong with it -- I\'ve a herd of 30\"
monitors that were apparently discarded because they \"fell out of fashion\")

And if EVERYTHING is fixable, maybe you could tell all those people who
have roundie tvs with dead CRTs how to repair them.

Pull a tube out of another scrapped TV as a replacement.

That doesn\'t repair the crt. Since Hawkeye departed there seems to be no way
to do them. Glassslinger probably knows how to, but I\'ve not seen him do a
CRT repair.

Replacing Q407 doesn\'t REPAIR the transistor; BUT, it likely repairs the device
in which the failed transistor resides!

PLENTY of those lying around (you have to PAY to get someone to take it
off your hands).

hardly, they\'re getting quite rare now. I have a roundie with great emission
- the proverbial hen\'s tooth.

Every week, someone tries to \"unload\" one in the hope that all he had to do
was DRIVE it over to us. Presently have a couple of shrink-wrapped pallets
(5ft high) of them on the property from a large commercial donor. *We*
don\'t like them as there\'s nothing ($$) in the transaction for us.

We used to scrap them in container lots!

used to, yes.

We now charge $25/tube. Far fewer people eager to LEGALLY dispose of them, in
this manner. Instead, they toss them in their weekly trash bin and hope the
trash man doesn\'t catch them.

Folks with rear projection TVs and oversized CRT (as well as LCD) can\'t resort
to this subterfuge so end up having to bring them in (and pay) *or* try to
give them away -- often CLAIMING they work (even if they don\'t).

I\'ve three 55\" LCD/LED TVs in the house that cost me a total of $0. (I won\'t
rescue one if it doesn\'t also have it\'s matching \"remote\" -- I\'d hate to
have to spend $5 for a replacement remote! :> ) Was tempted to rescue a 70\"
last week but there\'s a point where \"too big\" is just TOO BIG!
Yup. It\'s a different story here. US old kit restorers scrap so much historic stuff I wouldn\'t dream of chucking out. Even 40 years ago roundies were getting hard to find.


NT
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/20/2020 9:11 PM, Tabby wrote:
Yup. It\'s a different story here. US old kit restorers scrap so much
historic stuff I wouldn\'t dream of chucking out. Even 40 years ago roundies
were getting hard to find.
The problem is that \"collecting\" is more than just \"accumulating/warehousing\".
You need to provide a good storage environment for the items. And, have to
make a point of periodically \"using\" them, lest caps dry out, mechanisms
seize up, etc.

Here, storing items in \"out buildings\" is almost a guarantee that you\'ll be
discarding them -- once you realize the temperature extremes have made the
items nonfunctional. Or, discover that \"critters\" have found their way into
them and effectively rendered them impractical to repair (e.g., pack rats
seem obsessed with chewing on wiring).

When I see a pile of donated items that \"look too good to be true\", I\'m
almost positive -- before I dig into the pile -- that I\'ll discover they\'d
come from such a hoarder/storer and not a genuine *collector* (who\'s intent
is to preserve the items and not just *keep* them).
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/19/2020 6:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-09-15 00:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.

My first order of business is always to clean the item up;
make it look like it\'s been well cared for (instead of
treated as a catchall for \"tags\"). Peel stickers off,
erase markings, etc.

I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

And, it\'s reasonably cheap (buy it at the dollar store).

FWIW

Is it better than Goo Gone? GG is citrus-based, and seems to get rid of the
schticky schtuff I usually encounter.
Goo Gone is considerably more expensive than Mineral Spirits -- which tends to
be my \"go to\" product for \"sticky labels\". (I use a couple of gallons of it
each year; I remove lots of sticky labels and \"markings\") It\'s reasonably
inert (wrt metal and plastics) -- unlike acetone, etc. So, I can actually SOAK
items in it and not worry that I\'ll find a dissolved puddle of plastic if I
happen to forget about it for too long.

E.g., many small bottles (vitamins, liquid products, etc.) have a cardboard
\"gasket\" adhered to the underside of the lid to help make a conformal seal
when the lid is screwed on. In many cases, this is glued to the underside
of the cap. Exposing that adhesive would require scraping out the cardboard
until just the adhesive residue remained. Then, scrubbing the adhesive with
your chosen solvent and, finally, cleaning off the residue.

Instead, I simply turn the cap upside down and put ~1/8\" of spirits into the
cap. It soaks through the cardboard and, when I\'m ready to finish up, I can
just lift the loosened cardboard gasket out, wipe the underside of the cover
with a paper towel (for any remaining residue) and then wash the item in
soapy water.

A similar strategy applies for labels; apply spirits to the top side of the
label with a paper towel. Let the paper towel sit on top of the label to
reinforce this application. Peel label off, intact, 15 minutes later.
Wash item.

(plastic coated paper labels are a bit more tedious as you can\'t soak through
the plastic to saturate the paper beneath and, ultimately, the adhesive binding
it to the surface)
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 5:05:12 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/19/2020 6:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-09-15 00:55, Don Y wrote:
I rescue a lot of kit -- not all of it being \"electronics\".

Almost all of it is \"adorned\" with stickers, labels, asset
tags, \"markings\", etc.
....
I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!
Yeah, but because there\'s no ingredients list, the churn in small
companies means that you are tied to a single source, and it
can dry up. Or worse, get bought out, and reformulated to
something that does NOT work.

Is it better than Goo Gone? GG is citrus-based, and seems to get rid of the
schticky schtuff I usually encounter.
Goo Gone is considerably more expensive than Mineral Spirits -- which tends to
be my \"go to\" product for \"sticky labels\".
There are three useful alkanes in my solvents collection: odorless paint thinner
(similar to lighter fluid, or varsol, or even kerosene) is one, it works on a variety of
gummy pricetags. Waterless hand cleaner (probably just a soap-and-wax emulsion
with thinner) is another; it takes off the gummy stuff and in turn wipes away with
a damp rag. USP mineral oil is the third; if something has to soak, do NOT use a volatile
paint thinner (it would evaporate), but use the higher-molecular-weight oil.

So-called permanent adhesives sometimes don\'t soften/dissolve in oil, but a bit of
dry cleaner fluid (perchlorethylene, or carbon tet) does those in handily; a plastic library label
on a paperback is easily removed, by soaking from the paper side into the adhesive. This
IS volatile, but a sheet of metal or Teflon can be inserted for the soak time.

Alcohol-soluble goo takes isopropanol or (if you want to long-soak) glycerine or brake fluid
(which is mainly glycerine). Lots of tapes and label adhesives come off with a razor scraper,
and a bit of glycerine or waterless hand cleaner lubricates the scraper so the loosened edges
don\'t re-adhere. Some large labels have to be attacked from the edge with volatiles, but
kept loose with a non-solvent lube, and glycerine is good for that.

Methyl ethyl ketone or acetone are sometimes useful for markings/paint/odd adhesives.

It helps to have a few eyedroppers (or a variety of pipettes and various kinds of bulbs to fit to \'em)
so as to put a small amount of solvent where it\'s needed. Paper-stem cotton swabs (the polymer
stems seem to have fragile adhesion when there\'s solvents applied) are key items, too.
I really like having a package of dental gauze pads for throwaway applicators.

Orange oil products work well (usually just a Q-tip and a single drop is enough), and turpentine is
an old-fashioned equivalent. They leave a bit of an odor, though.
 
D

Don Y

Guest
On 9/21/2020 10:25 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 5:05:12 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
I have a go-to list of solvents/cleaning agents that I apply,
in order of increasing aggressiveness. E.g., acetone risks
more damage to an item than alcohol would.

One of my \"last resorts\" is a product called \"Totally Awesome\".
Nasty on the eyes and skin. And, it will take the patina
off of certain plastics. *But*, it removes stuff that many
of the seemingly more aggressive solvents won\'t!

Yeah, but because there\'s no ingredients list, the churn in small
companies means that you are tied to a single source, and it
can dry up. Or worse, get bought out, and reformulated to
something that does NOT work.
Sure. But, that\'s been the case with most of the \"really good\"
solvents/degreasers that I\'ve used over the years. I used to use
some stuff called \"Degraco\" many years ago. Haven\'t seen it
in at least 30 years...

[I\'ve learned to transfer solvents into glass bottles instead of
leaving them in their original plastic, \"pump\" bottles. Unless
used often, it seems that the mechanisms gunk up.]

But, most adhesives/markings will usually succumb to less
aggressive solvents -- with a little patience and, at times,
elbow grease (for really indelible ink on a plastic surface,
I use spirits and an electric eraser with a synthetic \"rubber\"
and patience to gently buff out the last ghosts of the image)

Changes in labels are the bigger issue. E.g, it\'s increasingly
common to find labels that are made of plastic adhered to
items. Thankfully, to date, these have been of a durable
enough plastic that the entire label can be removed, intack,
with a bit of patience. If the labels are ultimately made
of flimsier stock, that won\'t be the case as the mechanical
action of removing will undoubtedly result in tears.

[tears in COATED paper labels aren\'t difficult to address as
the tear usually exposed more of the paper base -- which can then
soak up solvent]

Is it better than Goo Gone? GG is citrus-based, and seems to get rid of the
schticky schtuff I usually encounter.
Goo Gone is considerably more expensive than Mineral Spirits -- which tends to
be my \"go to\" product for \"sticky labels\".

There are three useful alkanes in my solvents collection: odorless paint thinner
(similar to lighter fluid, or varsol, or even kerosene) is one, it works on a variety of
I tried a gallon of that last year when I couldn\'t find spirits. I was
disappointed in it -- and the \"non\" odor that it had.

gummy pricetags. Waterless hand cleaner (probably just a soap-and-wax emulsion
with thinner) is another; it takes off the gummy stuff and in turn wipes away with
a damp rag. USP mineral oil is the third; if something has to soak, do NOT use a volatile
paint thinner (it would evaporate), but use the higher-molecular-weight oil.
I never soak an item IN a solvent. Rather, use a \"thick layer\" (which can be a
\"puddle\") of solvent to work its way through some of the thicker labels. E.g.,
the cardboard \"gasket\" I mentioned on many screwtop bottles. Even if left \"too
long\" and the solvent evaporates, the \"label\"/gasket (or SOAKED paper towel
sitting atop) retains enough solvent that the label comes free easily, after.

For paper-on-glass labels, letting the entire item soak in warm water
will usually leave the label \"float\" off.

So-called permanent adhesives sometimes don\'t soften/dissolve in oil, but a bit of
dry cleaner fluid (perchlorethylene, or carbon tet) does those in handily; a plastic library label
on a paperback is easily removed, by soaking from the paper side into the adhesive. This
IS volatile, but a sheet of metal or Teflon can be inserted for the soak time.
Alcohol and spirits have worked, for us, when purchasing library \"discards\".
But, you have to be more selective in application as you usually don\'t want
to risk the jacket getting \"stained\" in the process.

Alcohol-soluble goo takes isopropanol or (if you want to long-soak) glycerine or brake fluid
(which is mainly glycerine). Lots of tapes and label adhesives come off with a razor scraper,
and a bit of glycerine or waterless hand cleaner lubricates the scraper so the loosened edges
don\'t re-adhere. Some large labels have to be attacked from the edge with volatiles, but
kept loose with a non-solvent lube, and glycerine is good for that.
I use an old fashioned putty knife (not the new fangled ones that are
relatively inflexible and lack a razor-sharp edge) -- but, only to remove
METAL asset tags. Razor blades are too easy to scar softer materials
if the cutting edge bites into the material (instead of sliding above it)

If away from home, hand sanitizer acts as a good substitute for IPA (esp
as you\'re undoubtedly going to wash/rinse it off, subsequently). The
same holds true of alcohol wipes (e.g., medical kit).

Methyl ethyl ketone or acetone are sometimes useful for markings/paint/odd adhesives.

It helps to have a few eyedroppers (or a variety of pipettes and various kinds of bulbs to fit to \'em)
so as to put a small amount of solvent where it\'s needed. Paper-stem cotton swabs (the polymer
stems seem to have fragile adhesion when there\'s solvents applied) are key items, too.
I really like having a package of dental gauze pads for throwaway applicators.
If I need \"just a drop\", I use a glass stirring rod. This is easy to dip into
a gallon jug of solvent that may not be \"full to the brim\". The downside is
you have to be careful not to break the damn things!

But, most labels/markings can tolerate a \"wash\" with the milder agents. I\'ve
only had to be particularly careful removing old adhesive labels from my other
half\'s artists\' brushes; the brushes themselves are painted and you don\'t
want to risk anything getting into the brush, itself.

Orange oil products work well (usually just a Q-tip and a single drop is enough), and turpentine is
an old-fashioned equivalent. They leave a bit of an odor, though.
 
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