Tin-foil hats?...

D

Davej

Guest
\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnews.com/article/politics-science-havana-cuba-china-8eee2de0d887e67d530d1a6f272d781c
 
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.
Hook a few diodes and wires to any sound system, and you
start hearing things.
Any fluorescent light tube would start emitting light, long before the
beams became dangerous.
Any engineer can think of a host of gadgets to detect those beams.
So, either the sec.serv. guys are stupid, or there were no
secret beams.
 
On 12/7/2020 12:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
  \"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found
that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses
among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.
Hook a few diodes and wires to any sound system, and you
start hearing things.
Any fluorescent light tube would start emitting light, long before the
beams became dangerous.
Any engineer can think of a host of gadgets to detect those beams.
So, either the sec.serv. guys are stupid, or there were no
secret beams.

The non-specific symptoms sound more like conversion disorder, or when
people on antidepressant/sleeping medication long-term come off their
meds too fast. Were they giving them all happy-pills? Probably...
 
On 7.12.20 19.15, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
  \"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found
that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses
among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.
Hook a few diodes and wires to any sound system, and you
start hearing things.
Any fluorescent light tube would start emitting light, long before the
beams became dangerous.
Any engineer can think of a host of gadgets to detect those beams.
So, either the sec.serv. guys are stupid, or there were no
secret beams.

We used unconnected LEDs to find leaks from waveguide
junctions on a 1 MW radar.

--

-TV
 
On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-8, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.

But, if it were a matter of a few episodes, it\'s unlikely the diplomats
would \'detect directed beams\' when outside the embassy. The
whole point of beams is that they can be aimed, and the
operators can hit-and-run.

Snipers can be very elusive, even though their shots are
visible and detectable, because they can hide themselves.

Microwave radiation does make more sense than ultrasound, but...
it always did. Evidence, though, is a hard problem: what traces would
remain behind? Brain tissue damage?
 
On 07.12.20 19:47, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 9:15:25 AM UTC-8, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.

But, if it were a matter of a few episodes, it\'s unlikely the diplomats
would \'detect directed beams\' when outside the embassy. The
whole point of beams is that they can be aimed, and the
operators can hit-and-run.

Snipers can be very elusive, even though their shots are
visible and detectable, because they can hide themselves.

Microwave radiation does make more sense than ultrasound, but...
it always did. Evidence, though, is a hard problem: what traces would
remain behind? Brain tissue damage?
Testing for \"after effects\" is rather useless.
Giving your embassy people a small warning device the size of
a pack of sigarets would be so much more useful.
It would also cut down on attempts , if you carefully leaked the
presence of such packs.......
 
On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 18:15:16 +0100, Sjouke Burry
<burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:

On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.

I\'d expect that an embassy or diplomatic residence would be saturated
with RF and laser detectors.
 
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 07:50:24 -0800 (PST), Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com>
wrote:

\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnews.com/article/politics-science-havana-cuba-china-8eee2de0d887e67d530d1a6f272d781c

This kind of stuff goes way back to \"The Thing\" at the Moscow embassy:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)>
Oddly, the Havana version uses pulsed RF instead of CW. At microwave
frequencies, almost any moveable metal diaphragm will produce FM
modulation and can be used as a listening device.

However, it\'s not easy. Besides picking up a very weak reflection,
the building is full of other reflections, all of which interfere with
the desired reflected signal. I other words, it doesn\'t work very
well.

I only know about one embassy from about 45 years ago. All the
windows were sputtered with aluminum for RF proofing and specifically
to avoid RF bugs.

The Havana article is far too vague to be considered authoritative.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
Davej wrote:

> \"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

And the purpose of that would be... what? The US would send a new batch
of diplomats, there are plenty.

Best regards, Piotr
 
On 12/7/20 10:02 AM, Tauno Voipio wrote:
On 7.12.20 19.15, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 07.12.20 16:50, Davej wrote:
  \"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found
that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses
among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

https://apnxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If that were true, then the stupidity of the secret service would
be enormous.
You can detect directed beams with almost anything, if they
are strong enough to harm people.
Hook a few diodes and wires to any sound system, and you
start hearing things.
Any fluorescent light tube would start emitting light, long before the
beams became dangerous.
Any engineer can think of a host of gadgets to detect those beams.
So, either the sec.serv. guys are stupid, or there were no
secret beams.

We used unconnected LEDs to find leaks from waveguide
junctions on a 1 MW radar.
Flashbulbs are more fun! Single use though...
 
On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 11:34:52 AM UTC-8, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
Davej wrote:

\"A new report by a National Academy of Sciences committee has found that \"directed\" microwave radiation is the likely cause of illnesses among American diplomats in Cuba and China.\"

And the purpose of that would be... what? The US would send a new batch
of diplomats, there are plenty.

Surveillance of talk by doppler backscatter off random objects (can be
done with lidar, too). The embassy in Moscow had an embarassment of
microwave radiation directed at it, long time ago...

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Signal
 
On a sunny day (Mon, 7 Dec 2020 20:02:52 +0200) it happened Tauno Voipio
<tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote in <rqlqoc$dbi$1@dont-email.me>:

We used unconnected LEDs to find leaks from waveguide
junctions on a 1 MW radar.

I have one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126276216

At about 5$ ..
you can adjust the sensitivity.
I usually calibrate it by holding it close to a raspberry pi1 (in a plastic housing)
and setting it so it just goes of.
With that setting you even get a beep when the neighbor across the road unlocks
his car door.
Any WiFi, cellphones close in the street, will trigger it,
Holding it near your microwave also triggers the alarm.

I am sure the US security club has much better ones, and recording spectrum analyzers
that can be left on 24/7.
Long ago the Russians were beaming microwaves to the US embassy to charge
or power ? their listening bugs...
What we do not know is what frequency microwaves the OP was talking about,
Above 5 GHz you need a better detector than the 5$ ebay one.

Anyways we live in an age where \'China or Russia has done\' it US media.

How quiet is CNN and other media now China did an automatic docking in moon orbit for a sample return.
I found some nice pictures on the Chinese website:
https://www.cgtn.com/
not so much hype either, sort of refreshing after CNN and NYT.

I wanna be in \'Merrica ????
Some may remember Westside Story, I have the DVD.
OK back to tronics...
A 3 cent BAT diode and old fashioned 100 uA moving coil meter should work too for high power,
have that too.
 
whit3rd wrote:

Surveillance of talk by doppler backscatter off random objects (can be
done with lidar, too).

Oh, sure, but then microwave irradiation is nothing more than an
occupational hazard. Running a Diesel engine can cause cancer too, and
we accept that fact. Truckers are expendable, and so are diplomats.

Best regards, Piotr
 
On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 06:08:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126276216

I have something similar. The problem is that it doesn\'t show
anything about the transmitter except that something is transmitting
on some frequency. Instead, I prefer to use an RTL-SDR dongle and
some spectrum analyzer software.
<https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/spectrum-analyzer-2/>

Long ago the Russians were beaming microwaves to the US embassy to charge
or power ? their listening bugs...

Nope. They were using the RF reflected from a moving diaphragm and
listening to the reflection for FM modulated voices:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)>
The amount of RF field strength needed to hear useful reflected
signals from such a tiny diaphragm must have been huge. I could
probably cook my dinner on the RF needed. Detecting it should have
been trivial with any kind of ELINT hardware.

I wanna be in \'Merrica ????
Some may remember Westside Story, I have the DVD.

Groan. I was a juvenile delinquent when the movie appeared. Like in
the movie, all us kids formed gangs. What do gangs do? Beat up on
each other, like in the movie. I ended up on the receiving end of a
steel pipe across the back of my head. I survived, but now hate the
movie and the music.

A 3 cent BAT diode and old fashioned 100 uA moving coil meter should work too for high power,
have that too.

Yeah. That\'s called a FSM (field strength meter) or \"sniffer\". Also
useful as a ghost detector. Very little sensitivity, but does work
better if you add a tuned circuit to reduce pickup on undesired
frequencies. 50 ua meters are more common than 100 ua.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 06:08:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126276216

I have something similar. The problem is that it doesn\'t show
anything about the transmitter except that something is transmitting
on some frequency. Instead, I prefer to use an RTL-SDR dongle and
some spectrum analyzer software.
<https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/spectrum-analyzer-2/>

Long ago the Russians were beaming microwaves to the US embassy to charge
or power ? their listening bugs...

Nope. They were using the RF reflected from a moving diaphragm and
listening to the reflection for FM modulated voices:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)>
The amount of RF field strength needed to hear useful reflected
signals from such a tiny diaphragm must have been huge. I could
probably cook my dinner on the RF needed. Detecting it should have
been trivial with any kind of ELINT hardware.

I wanna be in \'Merrica ????
Some may remember Westside Story, I have the DVD.

Groan. I was a juvenile delinquent when the movie appeared. Like in
the movie, all us kids formed gangs. What do gangs do? Beat up on
each other, like in the movie. I ended up on the receiving end of a
steel pipe across the back of my head. I survived, but now hate the
movie and the music.

A 3 cent BAT diode and old fashioned 100 uA moving coil meter should work too for high power,
have that too.

Yeah. That\'s called a FSM (field strength meter) or \"sniffer\". Also
useful as a ghost detector. Very little sensitivity, but does work
better if you add a tuned circuit to reduce pickup on undesired
frequencies. 50 ua meters are more common than 100 ua.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 08 Dec 2020 08:02:22 -0800) it happened Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <pi7vsfl2fn4dvla42d9dbhno8bclrru2d9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 06:08:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126276216

I have something similar. The problem is that it doesn\'t show
anything about the transmitter except that something is transmitting
on some frequency. Instead, I prefer to use an RTL-SDR dongle and
some spectrum analyzer software.
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/spectrum-analyzer-2/

Yea, I have that too, but basically RTL-SDR is not wideband
you would have to scan in steps, I wrote some software for that actually:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xpsa/index.html
oh I know about those waterfall displays, but more interested in the science...
rtl-sdr sticks (I have 4 now, 2 old ones (one R4000) and 2 with 1 ppm xtal oven, these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272411458376)
go just high enough to get GPS, scroll down to Panteltje for my GPS test:
http://michelebavaro.blogspot.com/2012/04/spring-news-in-gnss-and-sdr-domain.html
else you have to down-convert.
Using a satellite LNB output at around 1 GHz you can get to 10 GHz etc...
QO100 SSB works great with a stabilized LNB.


Also build a 2.4 GHz to 1 GHz or so down converter to monitor the WiFi band.
Wrote a whole lot of DVB-S software
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
seems some is used all over the world,
Dish positioner and calculator:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xdipo-0.8.6.gif
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/satellite/

There is more:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
but have not updated the website in a while, busy with other stuff,




Long ago the Russians were beaming microwaves to the US embassy to charge
or power ? their listening bugs...

Nope. They were using the RF reflected from a moving diaphragm and
listening to the reflection for FM modulated voices:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
Nice!

The amount of RF field strength needed to hear useful reflected
signals from such a tiny diaphragm must have been huge. I could
probably cook my dinner on the RF needed. Detecting it should have
been trivial with any kind of ELINT hardware.

Yea, poor diplomats...

I wanna be in \'Merrica ????
Some may remember Westside Story, I have the DVD.

Groan. I was a juvenile delinquent when the movie appeared. Like in
the movie, all us kids formed gangs. What do gangs do? Beat up on
each other, like in the movie. I ended up on the receiving end of a
steel pipe across the back of my head. I survived, but now hate the
movie and the music.

Yes, but I liked the music, gangs I have been in at young and older age
in NY even.


A 3 cent BAT diode and old fashioned 100 uA moving coil meter should work too for high power,
have that too.

Yeah. That\'s called a FSM (field strength meter) or \"sniffer\". Also
useful as a ghost detector. Very little sensitivity, but does work
better if you add a tuned circuit to reduce pickup on undesired
frequencies. 50 ua meters are more common than 100 ua.

You can probably add some directivity to get a bearing, have some small 2.4 GHz ebay yagis here.
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 08 Dec 2020 08:02:22 -0800) it happened Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <pi7vsfl2fn4dvla42d9dbhno8bclrru2d9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 06:08:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126276216

I have something similar. The problem is that it doesn\'t show
anything about the transmitter except that something is transmitting
on some frequency. Instead, I prefer to use an RTL-SDR dongle and
some spectrum analyzer software.
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/spectrum-analyzer-2/

Yea, I have that too, but basically RTL-SDR is not wideband
you would have to scan in steps, I wrote some software for that actually:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xpsa/index.html
oh I know about those waterfall displays, but more interested in the science...
rtl-sdr sticks (I have 4 now, 2 old ones (one R4000) and 2 with 1 ppm xtal oven, these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272411458376)
go just high enough to get GPS, scroll down to Panteltje for my GPS test:
http://michelebavaro.blogspot.com/2012/04/spring-news-in-gnss-and-sdr-domain.html
else you have to down-convert.
Using a satellite LNB output at around 1 GHz you can get to 10 GHz etc...
QO100 SSB works great with a stabilized LNB.


Also build a 2.4 GHz to 1 GHz or so down converter to monitor the WiFi band.
Wrote a whole lot of DVB-S software
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/
seems some is used all over the world,
Dish positioner and calculator:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xdipo-0.8.6.gif
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/satellite/

There is more:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
but have not updated the website in a while, busy with other stuff,




Long ago the Russians were beaming microwaves to the US embassy to charge
or power ? their listening bugs...

Nope. They were using the RF reflected from a moving diaphragm and
listening to the reflection for FM modulated voices:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
Nice!

The amount of RF field strength needed to hear useful reflected
signals from such a tiny diaphragm must have been huge. I could
probably cook my dinner on the RF needed. Detecting it should have
been trivial with any kind of ELINT hardware.

Yea, poor diplomats...

I wanna be in \'Merrica ????
Some may remember Westside Story, I have the DVD.

Groan. I was a juvenile delinquent when the movie appeared. Like in
the movie, all us kids formed gangs. What do gangs do? Beat up on
each other, like in the movie. I ended up on the receiving end of a
steel pipe across the back of my head. I survived, but now hate the
movie and the music.

Yes, but I liked the music, gangs I have been in at young and older age
in NY even.


A 3 cent BAT diode and old fashioned 100 uA moving coil meter should work too for high power,
have that too.

Yeah. That\'s called a FSM (field strength meter) or \"sniffer\". Also
useful as a ghost detector. Very little sensitivity, but does work
better if you add a tuned circuit to reduce pickup on undesired
frequencies. 50 ua meters are more common than 100 ua.

You can probably add some directivity to get a bearing, have some small 2.4 GHz ebay yagis here.
 

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