Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does Both 50Hz and 60Hz.

[John Woodgate]

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote (in
<4254DA2D.C0F5E9F@hotmail.com&gt about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does
Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

I've heard about that selenium problem. Nothing to do with the power
generation itself of course.

They should extract it and use it to make the next set of replacement
rectifiers.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
<1159oql2vpq8c64@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant
Does Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

Without the dam, you wouldn't have the selenium problem.

It's not a problem, it's an opportunity. See my other post.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that Richard Crowley
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote (in <1159ltvnsmgkc27@corp.supernews.com&gt
about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Wed, 6 Apr
2005:

I've heard that the reason for DC was because of transmission
losses at 60Hz. According to my calculations, the wavelength
of 60Hz is 500KM. So the length of the transmission line is
1361KM which makes it 2.72 wavelengths @ 60Hz. How
does that work?

Wavelength matters for the enormously long lines in Canada and Russia
(and China?). But for shorter lines, it's capacitance that causes
problems, even for overhead transmission at 60 Hz.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote (in
<4254DAC7.2E1EFAB7@hotmail.com&gt about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does
Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

Fred Lotte wrote:

LOL, The red line on the floor indicates the border of Brazil and Paraguay.

In Ireland, the border between the North and the Republic passes
through some ppls' houses !

With a currency exchange in the cupboard under the stairs?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Stewart]

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4253BEA6.E2A3039E@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

WOW! 750kV AC! -+500kV DC! The 2nd & 3ed pages give pics and info
on
the generators, etc. Each of the 18 generators puts out over 700MW,
which is about as much as half a regular or nuclear generating
station!
Mamma mia! Two separate power plants. Rectifiers the size of
buildings! Everything's so HUGE!
http://www.solar.coppe.ufrj.br/itaipu.html

--

Many environmentalists don't much like power dams either & perhaps
with
good reason. For example, by the time the Colorado River gets to the
Gulf
of California there isn't much water left. I guess that screws things
up
for the whales & the Mexicans who live there. But I guess that is OK
as
long as the desert is kept watered for those with
money. JLS

?? The cotton in the shirt on your back was very likely grown in the
Imperial Valley, watered with that very water that came from the
Colorado River!

I didn't mean to rain on your parade at all Watson. Altho the project
referenced is without doubt an engineering marvel, environmentalists are
more & more in opposition to dams. I don't think I'm telling anyone
something they don't know. As new evidence accumulates I guess there may be
some changes for the future, but who knows.

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more lately that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

My 2 cents, anyway. John Stewart

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca...

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4253BEA6.E2A3039E@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

WOW! 750kV AC! -+500kV DC! The 2nd & 3ed pages give pics and
info
on
the generators, etc. Each of the 18 generators puts out over
700MW,
which is about as much as half a regular or nuclear generating
station!
Mamma mia! Two separate power plants. Rectifiers the size of
buildings! Everything's so HUGE!
http://www.solar.coppe.ufrj.br/itaipu.html

--

Many environmentalists don't much like power dams either & perhaps
with
good reason. For example, by the time the Colorado River gets to
the
Gulf
of California there isn't much water left. I guess that screws
things
up
for the whales & the Mexicans who live there. But I guess that is
OK
as
long as the desert is kept watered for those with
money. JLS

?? The cotton in the shirt on your back was very likely grown in
the
Imperial Valley, watered with that very water that came from the
Colorado River!

I didn't mean to rain on your parade at all Watson. Altho the project
referenced is without doubt an engineering marvel, environmentalists
are
more & more in opposition to dams. I don't think I'm telling anyone
something they don't know. As new evidence accumulates I guess there
may be
some changes for the future, but who knows.

Read Marc Reisner's "Cadillac Desert". Here's some info on the PBS
series:
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~martins/hydro/case_studies/cadillac_desert
..htm
"Reisner examines the West's ecologically dangerous, and ultimately
harmful, dependence on dams and aqueducts.."

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more lately
that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd
World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working
in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

We ship raw materials back, in return for the finished goods from those
countries. And one of those raw materials is cotton from California.

My 2 cents, anyway. John Stewart

 

[John Byrns]

In article <425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca>, jh.stewart@sympatico.ca wrote:

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more lately that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

They could always raise the cows that provide the meat for the burgers.


Regards,

John Byrns


Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Byrns" <jbyrns@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:jbyrns-0704051001470001@216-80-74-65.d.enteract.com...

In article <425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca>, jh.stewart@sympatico.ca
wrote:

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more
lately that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd
World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working
in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

They could always raise the cows that provide the meat for the
burgers.

Most cattle ranches are highly automated and don't require many people
to run them. I guess they're still called cowboys, yes? Or ranchers?
Whatever.

Regards,
John Byrns

 

[John Stewart]

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4253BEA6.E2A3039E@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

WOW! 750kV AC! -+500kV DC! The 2nd & 3ed pages give pics and
info
on
the generators, etc. Each of the 18 generators puts out over
700MW,
which is about as much as half a regular or nuclear generating
station!
Mamma mia! Two separate power plants. Rectifiers the size of
buildings! Everything's so HUGE!
http://www.solar.coppe.ufrj.br/itaipu.html

--

Many environmentalists don't much like power dams either & perhaps
with
good reason. For example, by the time the Colorado River gets to
the
Gulf
of California there isn't much water left. I guess that screws
things
up
for the whales & the Mexicans who live there. But I guess that is
OK
as
long as the desert is kept watered for those with
money. JLS

?? The cotton in the shirt on your back was very likely grown in
the
Imperial Valley, watered with that very water that came from the
Colorado River!

I didn't mean to rain on your parade at all Watson. Altho the project
referenced is without doubt an engineering marvel, environmentalists
are
more & more in opposition to dams. I don't think I'm telling anyone
something they don't know. As new evidence accumulates I guess there
may be
some changes for the future, but who knows.

Read Marc Reisner's "Cadillac Desert". Here's some info on the PBS
series:
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~martins/hydro/case_studies/cadillac_desert
.htm
"Reisner examines the West's ecologically dangerous, and ultimately
harmful, dependence on dams and aqueducts.."

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more lately
that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd
World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working
in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

We ship raw materials back, in return for the finished goods from those
countries. And one of those raw materials is cotton from California.

My 2 cents, anyway. John Stewart

Cotton planted & picked by low cost immigrant labor from Mexico. Then
processed offshore. Profits made by large landholders & water users. Where
is the real benefit for the ordinary American? JLS

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that John Stewart
<jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote (in <425669FD.B234E30@sympatico.ca&gt
about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Fri, 8 Apr
2005:

Where
is the real benefit for the ordinary American?

ARE there any ordinary Americans?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:425669FD.B234E30@sympatico.ca...

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"John Stewart" <jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4253BEA6.E2A3039E@sympatico.ca...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

WOW! 750kV AC! -+500kV DC! The 2nd & 3ed pages give pics
and
info
on
the generators, etc. Each of the 18 generators puts out
over
700MW,
which is about as much as half a regular or nuclear
generating
station!
Mamma mia! Two separate power plants. Rectifiers the size
of
buildings! Everything's so HUGE!
http://www.solar.coppe.ufrj.br/itaipu.html

--

Many environmentalists don't much like power dams either &
perhaps
with
good reason. For example, by the time the Colorado River gets
to
the
Gulf
of California there isn't much water left. I guess that screws
things
up
for the whales & the Mexicans who live there. But I guess that
is
OK
as
long as the desert is kept watered for those with
money. JLS

?? The cotton in the shirt on your back was very likely grown
in
the
Imperial Valley, watered with that very water that came from the
Colorado River!

I didn't mean to rain on your parade at all Watson. Altho the
project
referenced is without doubt an engineering marvel,
environmentalists
are
more & more in opposition to dams. I don't think I'm telling
anyone
something they don't know. As new evidence accumulates I guess
there
may be
some changes for the future, but who knows.

Read Marc Reisner's "Cadillac Desert". Here's some info on the PBS
series:

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~martins/hydro/case_studies/cadillac_desert
.htm
"Reisner examines the West's ecologically dangerous, and ultimately
harmful, dependence on dams and aqueducts.."

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more
lately
that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd
World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be
working
in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

We ship raw materials back, in return for the finished goods from
those
countries. And one of those raw materials is cotton from
California.

My 2 cents, anyway. John Stewart


Cotton planted & picked by low cost immigrant labor from Mexico. Then
processed offshore. Profits made by large landholders & water users.
Where
is the real benefit for the ordinary American?
JLS

It makes jobs for Border Patrol officers.

It keeps Wal-Mart in cheap Chinese goods!

It makes jobs for stevedores at the ports of L.A. and Long Beach, Calif.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:RLTga8CXAnVCFwoY@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that John Stewart
jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote (in <425669FD.B234E30@sympatico.ca&gt
about 'Schizo Hydro Power Plant Does Both 50Hz and 60Hz.', on Fri, 8
Apr
2005:
Where
is the real benefit for the ordinary American?

ARE there any ordinary Americans?

No. Americans are extraordinary.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:25:22 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" wrote:

"John Byrns" <jbyrns@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:jbyrns-0704051001470001@216-80-74-65.d.enteract.com...
In article <425508B5.8D846F14@sympatico.ca>, jh.stewart@sympatico.ca
wrote:

When it comes to the shirt on my back I've noticed more & more
lately that
things like that seem to be coming out of China, India & other 3rd
World
places. You gotta wonder where our children & theirs will be working
in
future. Not everyone wants to sling burgers at MacDonalds.

They could always raise the cows that provide the meat for the
burgers.

Most cattle ranches are highly automated and don't require many people to
run them. I guess they're still called cowboys, yes? Or ranchers?
Whatever.

They call them "cattle feeders" and the ranches are called "feedlots."

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Fred Lotte]

In article <11578oab66vlp3f@corp.supernews.com>,
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

WOW! 750kV AC! -+500kV DC! The 2nd & 3ed pages give pics and info on
the generators, etc. Each of the 18 generators puts out over 700MW,
which is about as much as half a regular or nuclear generating station!
Mamma mia! Two separate power plants. Rectifiers the size of
buildings! Everything's so HUGE!
http://www.solar.coppe.ufrj.br/itaipu.html

A friend of mine headed the hydro department of a major US equipment manufacturer when this was
being bid in the '60s. He told me that the original concept called for a dual 50/60 Hz design
for the generators and turbines. They wanted to get both frequencies from each machine at the
same time or have machines convertible to the other frequency. All the bidders said that this
was folly so the next go-around was with some 50Hz machines and some 60Hz with an electronic
frequency changer connecting the 2 systems. Both governments were so worried that the other
would get one-up on them that's it's a wonder this was even built.

He also told me that the required bribes were spelled out in the bid documents. I don't think
any US company got a part of this mega job (maybe Harza Engineering in Chicago was the designer,
I don't recall). The various contractors probably went thru hell... talk about trying to serve 2
masters.

In spite of other comments here, this is about as clean as power comes at this scale.

BTW, my friend did go on to design some of the largest hydro generators installed in the US, a
fitting cap to his career.

LOL, The red line on the floor indicates the border of Brazil and Paraguay.

I wonder if you have to go thru immigration to walk from one end to the other. Is that a red
line I see on the control room floor? Yes, "The control center of the 18 generators
Left half of it (in Brazil) controls the 60 Hz units, right half  (in Paraguay) controls the 50
Hz units." I'd bet that the floor area on each side is the same to within a small fraction of a
sq meter. Maybe even the number of meters and control switches is the same. Lawyers and
politicians should be required to leave the property when any serious science or engineering is
being done.

LOL#2, Upon looking up the spelling of politician I find this : One who seeks personal or
partisan gain, often by scheming and maneuvering.

--
Fred Lotte
flotte@nospam.stratos.net