Power Supply Fan Issue, Please Help

[Anonymous via the Cypherp]

Hello,

after being in service for about 6 months my Heiroichi
HEC 350 LR-T power supply fan has become so noisy that
I decided to replace it. I know that adding a drop of oil
may solve the problem for a while, but I'm looking for a
more reliable, long-term solution.

Currently in place is the original 12 V DC, 0.17 A sleeve
bearing fan provided by HEC. As far as I can tell, it is connected
through a 2 pin molex connector, but my knowledge of electronics is
very modest, so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me the
following:

- what kind of fan connector is used inside this model of HEC
power supplies?

If this is a regular molex connector, can one also hook up a
3 wire/pin fan to it? As far as I know, the 3rd wire is only
used for RPM monitoring where supported?


- which silent 80 mm fans are best suited as a replacement for
the current HEC fan in this particular power supply?

I hope to find a suitable fan with the following features:

- less than 20 dB (as noiseless as the HEC fan originally
used to be)
- 1200 - 2000 RPM
- double ball bearings
- can be installed without additional modification
(such as soldering)

At those speeds there is no difference in noise levels between
sleeve and ball bearing fans, but I would like a ball bearing
one because they seem to last longer.

I would also like to hear from other HEC power supply owners
who have replaced their HEC fans. Is this a common issue with
HEC power supply fans? Does the HEC warranty cover such cases?
My power supply is still under manufacturer's warranty.


Thank you in advance,
Will G. S. <will_g_sAPPLE@yahoo.com>
Remove the FRUIT from the address above to get my email address.

 

[Arno Wagner]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer <nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:

Hello,

after being in service for about 6 months my Heiroichi
HEC 350 LR-T power supply fan has become so noisy that
I decided to replace it. I know that adding a drop of oil
may solve the problem for a while, but I'm looking for a
more reliable, long-term solution.

Currently in place is the original 12 V DC, 0.17 A sleeve
bearing fan provided by HEC. As far as I can tell, it is connected
through a 2 pin molex connector, but my knowledge of electronics is
very modest, so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me the
following:

If you have only modest knowledge of electronics I would strongly
suggest you stay away from the internals of your PSU. Not only may it
be dangerous for some time even after you disconnect it, also if you
make a mistake in the fan replacement, you could kill your computer.

It is not that fan replacement is difficult. As long as the new fan
is at least as powerful as the old one and you make sure its
wires are suitable insulated with regard to the PSUs requirements
(they may touch up to 400V in there...), this usually goes fine.

But if something bad happens and you are not an expert, it will
be on your head and you will have little chance of defending
yourself. Insurance might not pay. If somebody gets hurt you
might find yourself liable and face criminal charges.

Regards,
Arno

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[Michael Hawes]

Hello,

after being in service for about 6 months my Heiroichi
HEC 350 LR-T power supply fan has become so noisy that
I decided to replace it. I know that adding a drop of oil
may solve the problem for a while, but I'm looking for a
more reliable, long-term solution.

Currently in place is the original 12 V DC, 0.17 A sleeve
bearing fan provided by HEC. As far as I can tell, it is connected
through a 2 pin molex connector, but my knowledge of electronics is
very modest, so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me the
following:

If it is under warranty why do you want to fix it yourself? Get the
supplier to fix it!

Mike.




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[WEBPA]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer
nobody@cypherpunks.to> wrote:

Hello,

after being in service for about 6 months my Heiroichi
HEC 350 LR-T power supply fan has become so noisy that
I decided to replace it. I know that adding a drop of oil
may solve the problem for a while, but I'm looking for a
more reliable, long-term solution.

Currently in place is the original 12 V DC, 0.17 A sleeve
bearing fan provided by HEC. As far as I can tell, it is connected
through a 2 pin molex connector, but my knowledge of electronics is
very modest, so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me the
following:

If you have only modest knowledge of electronics I would strongly
suggest you stay away from the internals of your PSU. Not only may it
be dangerous for some time even after you disconnect it, also if you
make a mistake in the fan replacement, you could kill your computer.

It is not that fan replacement is difficult. As long as the new fan
is at least as powerful as the old one and you make sure its
wires are suitable insulated with regard to the PSUs requirements
(they may touch up to 400V in there...), this usually goes fine.

But if something bad happens and you are not an expert, it will
be on your head and you will have little chance of defending
yourself. Insurance might not pay. If somebody gets hurt you
might find yourself liable and face criminal charges.

Regards,
Arno

Bearings normally fail because of inadequate or improper lubricant. If you add
your drop of oil early enough, and if the oil is something like 5W30
full-synthetic, then the fan will likely outlast the remainder of the computer.
That's my experience, anyway.
webpa

 

[Will G. S.]

Please skip to the bottom of this message for some important
new info if you do not want to read my comments to what's been
said so far.

Arno Wagner (me@privacy.net) said:

If you have only modest knowledge of electronics I would
strongly suggest you stay away from the internals of your
PSU. Not only may it be dangerous for some time even after
you disconnect it, also if you make a mistake in the fan
replacement, you could kill your computer.

Thanks for your concern, but I am fully aware of the dangers of
working on a PSU, I know what kind of charge those capacitors
can store even days after being disconnected and drained. I
would not be doing this if I were not sure I was capable of
doing it correctly and in a safe manner. This particular PSU
has even Short Circuit Protection, so it is very unlikely that
I could do anything that would kill the computer or even the
fan itself since most of the better fans (like Papst) have
reversed polarity protection, if I am not mistaken.

But if something bad happens and you are not an expert, it
will be on your head and you will have little chance of
defending yourself. Insurance might not pay. If somebody gets
hurt you might find yourself liable and face criminal charges.

Everyone is held liable for their actions, not just the
non-experts. Insurance and other people have nothing to do with
this, we are talking about my personal computer and you can
rest assured that I only perform procedures that I am
absolutely sure I am capable of doing properly and in a safe
manner.

Michael Hawes (michael.hawes1remove@btinternet.com) said:

If it is under warranty why do you want to fix it yourself?
Get the supplier to fix it!

It is only under manufacturer's warranty, the supplier's
warranty has already expired. I want to fix this myself for
several reasons. Let's ignore the fact that shipping the PSU to
the manufacturer alone would cost me more than 2 of the best
Papst fans and let's also ignore the fact that I cannot get a
replacement PSU. Let's also presume that I could get an RMA
number for a fully functional PSU with a functional fan that
happens to be loud, but is not louder than 36 dB. The real
problem here is that the manufacturer would just replace the
fan with the same model and I do not want to have to keep
sending the PSU back every 6 to 12 months just to have the
fan replaced with yet another cheap fan. I want a silent, high
quality, durable fan.

So let's get back on the topic. What kind of fan connector is in
the HEC PSU? Which silent fans are best suited as a replacement?
I am thinking about getting one of these:

RPM dB CFM Bearings
Blacknoise Ultra Silent S2 1000-2000 11-19 23-50 Ball
Papst 8412N/2L 1500 12 33 Ball
Papst 8412N/2GML 2050 19 45 Sleeve
Papst 8412N/2ML 2050 21 45 Ball
YS Tech FD1281253B-2A 2000 23.5 30 Ball

Anyone out there using one of these in their PSU? Do you have it
connected directly to the PSU connector or to the molex
connector on the motherboard? Anyone using a 4 to 3 pin
connector? Please share your experiences.

Thanks,
Will G. S. <will_g_sAPPLE@yahoo.com>
Remove the FRUIT from the address above to get my email address.

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[Will G. S.]

Arno Wagner (me@privacy.net) said:

I have several 8412 NGL's (8412N/2L without monitoring,
I think) in my case.

As far as I know, the only difference lies in the type of
bearings. Papst fans with a G in the model name have sleeve
bearings (Sintec-Gleitlager), while those without it use
ball bearings. Fans with sleeve bearings are not as loud,
but do not generally last as long as those with ball
bearings.

They would not be powerful enough in most PSU's, I
think. A 8412NGM might be enough. (Not in your list, it
has 26dB and 54 CFM.)

The Papst 8412NGM can do 58 CFM, but it is too loud for my
system. I put together a very silent (the PSU is the
loudest part) and very well ventilated system, so I think
the Papst 8412N/2ML with its 45 CFM and 21 dB would be more
appropriate in this case.

What kind of airflow does the original HEC fan provide?
I did some subjective comparative testing with a fan with
adjustable speed and the HEC fan does not seem to push
more than 30 CFM.

I noticed I misquoted the loudness level for the Papst
8412N/2L (it is actually 17 dB, not 12 dB), so here is
the updated list with two new additions that you
mentioned, maybe it will be useful to someone:

RPM dB CFM Bearings
Blacknoise Ultra Silent S2 1000-2000 11-19 23-50 Ball
Papst 8412N/2GL 1500 12 33 Sleeve
Papst 8412N/2L 1500 17 33 Ball
Papst 8412N/2GML 2050 19 45 Sleeve
Papst 8412N/2ML 2050 21 45 Ball
YS Tech FD1281253B-2A 2000 23.5 30 Ball
Papst 8412N/2GM 2600 26 58 Sleeve

Do not connect it to the mainboard! Whatever you do, the
new fan needs to be connected inside the PSU just as the
old one was. Otherwise the temperature management of the
PSU does will completely fail and you get the additional
risks from slipping connectors and mainboard problems.
[...]
You also can get the fan models without the supervision,
since the PSU does not do monitoring anyway.

Why would the temperature management of the PSU fail when,
as you say, the PSU does not do any kind of monitoring on
the fan?

I do not see a significant difference between connecting
the fan inside or outside since the PSU does not seem to
do any kind of monitoring on the fan. If I put in a 3 wire
PSU fan and connect it to the motherboard I can then
monitor it and have the computer safely shut down in
case of fan failure.

Does anyone know what kind of temperature menagement this
particular HEC PSU has? I suspect the PSU might have a
thermistor in there to prevent the worst in case of fan
failure, but as you said, there can be no monitoring on
the fan itself. Other than checking whether something is
drawing current from the fan connector inside the PSU,
of course.

The motherboard approach seems to have an advantage over
the way things are done now, but I do not have all the
info to be able to say that for sure. Can someone with
detailed knowledge of these issues please shed some
light?

I have not replaced PSU fans in a long time, since all
my PSUs today where bought with noise in mind.

Same here, the HEC used to be noiseless, but it seems that
having a fan inside is bound to cost you sooner or later.

BTW, does anyone have any experience with the fanless
proSilence 350PCS PSU?

http://www.silentmaxx.net/silent_products/power_supplies/pro
Silence_power_supply/proSilence_350pcs/prosilence_350pcs.html

http://tinyurl.com/ix6h

It seems great, I may have to get that next.

I addition you should look at the fan wires.
My 8412NGL's have 300V/105C wires, so they should be
uncritical. However some fans come with 30V wires,
which are entirely unsuitable for the insides of a
PSU. If there is no rating printed on the wires you
should assume they are rated at 30V only.

Thanks for the info on the wires, I was not aware of
that.

O.k., I have not really answered your questions. Maybe
it helps nonetheless...

It indeed does, vielen Dank und schoene Gruesse!

Will G. S. <will_g_sAPPLE@yahoo.com>
Remove the FRUIT from the address above to get my email address.

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