Newsgroup Nazi

John Fields · Mar 17, 2005

I've had a DSL line for a year or so, supplied by SBC Internet
Services, and I'm really pleased with it. I was using another ISP for
outgoing email and news, and yesterday I decided to save a few bucks
by dropping the other ISP and running everything through SWB. No
problem; everything worked fine except the connection to Usenet,
through Prodigy, which was (is) so crappy that I didn't see any new
posts on sed or abse for hours after I hooked up with prodigy's news
server.

So, I thought, maybe something's wrong on my end. In order to check
it out I decided to send some test posts to see if they'd make it
through, and here's what I found in my inbox shortly after that:

<QUOTE>

FYI,
Please be advised that posting tests to discussion
groups is considered poor netiquette. There are test
groups set aside for posting tests. Please retry your
test to sbcglobal.test, or alt.test. For binary test
posts please use alt.test.binaries.
All unmoderated groups work the same way so if a post
works to a test group it should work in any group. On
the rare occasion where a test must be made to a
discussion group, please post a short on-topic message
as your test. Your test post would have been successful
had it not been filtered out.
If you are having problems with or questions regarding
newsgroups please post your concerns to;

news://sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups

or email news-support@sbcglobal.net

Common problems and fixes may be found at;

http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Thank You,

--
Tom Ippolito
Newsgroups System Administrator
SBC Services
ippolitot@prodigy.net

<END QUOTE>

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do.

What do y'all think about that?

--
John Fields

Fred Bloggs · Mar 17, 2005

John Fields wrote:

I've had a DSL line for a year or so, supplied by SBC Internet
Services, and I'm really pleased with it. I was using another ISP for
outgoing email and news, and yesterday I decided to save a few bucks
by dropping the other ISP and running everything through SWB. No
problem; everything worked fine except the connection to Usenet,
through Prodigy, which was (is) so crappy that I didn't see any new
posts on sed or abse for hours after I hooked up with prodigy's news
server.

So, I thought, maybe something's wrong on my end. In order to check
it out I decided to send some test posts to see if they'd make it
through, and here's what I found in my inbox shortly after that:

QUOTE

FYI,
Please be advised that posting tests to discussion
groups is considered poor netiquette. There are test
groups set aside for posting tests. Please retry your
test to sbcglobal.test, or alt.test. For binary test
posts please use alt.test.binaries.
All unmoderated groups work the same way so if a post
works to a test group it should work in any group. On
the rare occasion where a test must be made to a
discussion group, please post a short on-topic message
as your test. Your test post would have been successful
had it not been filtered out.
If you are having problems with or questions regarding
newsgroups please post your concerns to;

news://sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups

or email news-support@sbcglobal.net

Common problems and fixes may be found at;

http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Thank You,

If only they could do the same for OT: Blah-blah-blah's we would be set.

John Woodgate · Mar 17, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt

about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

What do y'all think about that?

He must be French.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Mar 17, 2005

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com...
[snip]

END QUOTE

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do.

What do y'all think about that?

I had Pac Bell (now SBC) dialup and it was so spitty, spotty and
worthless that I soon dropped it. They would drop the connection after
just a half hour or less, and that was assuming something else wasn't
wrong with their servers. They are so incompetent and they can get away
with it because they're one of the biggest providers, even worse than
AOHell. There's even a website and/or newsgroup just for how bad their
service is.

http://pachell.com/
http://twiki.cageyconsumer.com/PacBellHell

I just spent the last _four_ days trying to get them to fix a DSL line
at work. I brought it up an the monthly service meeting with our SBC
account reps and got sympathy, but that's all.

--
John Fields

Jim Thompson · Mar 17, 2005

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:46:40 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

What do y'all think about that?

He must be French.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Mar 17, 2005

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:tkhj31hl98qdjg984u0r3i5rbusrpc66r4@4ax.com...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:46:40 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields
jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt
about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

What do y'all think about that?

He must be French.

"Ippolito"? Sure sounds "French" to me ;-)

Me, I'd send Ippolito a nastygram, copied to whatever state agency
regulates SBC in Texass.

...Jim Thompson
--

But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good chance
that you signed away the right when you signed up for their service.
But just because they made you waive your rights doesn't mean that what
they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law. One
thing that should be considered. SBC is a regulated entity, so certain
things are different than for a regular ISP. However they may have
their internet services spun off as a separate company to take care of
this.

Larry Brasfield · Mar 17, 2005

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
<NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:113jkc46mekp59a@corp.supernews.com...
[regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about same]

But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good chance
that you signed away the right when you signed up for their service.

That's an excellent point. I've not read the terms
of service agreement the OP executed, (and neither
has he, I suspect), but I have read (and executed)
several, and most or all of them explicitly provided
for the action that the OP's ISP took.

But just because they made you waive your rights doesn't mean that what
they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law.

I doubt that very much. What law do you
think that is? Something the U.S. Congress
passed? Case law?

[snip]
--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

Rob Gaddi · Mar 17, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:46:40 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

What do y'all think about that?

He must be French.

"Ippolito"? Sure sounds "French" to me ;-)

Me, I'd send Ippolito a nastygram, copied to whatever state agency
regulates SBC in Texass.

...Jim Thompson
Agency? Regulates? Clearly, son, you don't understand how we do

business here in Texas.

Rich Grise · Mar 17, 2005

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:46:40 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

What do y'all think about that?

He must be French.

Nah. He's a Patriot! His suppression of test messages is perfectly
legal under the Patriot Act!

What are you, some kind of subversive?

;-P
Rich

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Mar 17, 2005

"Larry Brasfield" <donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news

vk_d.29$zO.874@news.uswest.net...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:113jkc46mekp59a@corp.supernews.com...
[regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about
same]
But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good
chance
that you signed away the right when you signed up for their service.

That's an excellent point. I've not read the terms
of service agreement the OP executed, (and neither
has he, I suspect), but I have read (and executed)
several, and most or all of them explicitly provided
for the action that the OP's ISP took.

But just because they made you waive your rights doesn't mean that
what
they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law.

I doubt that very much. What law do you
think that is? Something the U.S. Congress
passed? Case law?

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word good there. The violation would
most likely involve privacy and monitoring, and/or censorship and free
speech.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

Franc Zabkar · Mar 17, 2005

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:12:12 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do.

What do y'all think about that?

I have no problem with that, it just sounds like a bit of friendly
advice to me. He's merely restating accepted Usenet practice. BTW,
it's also considered bad netiquette to crosspost excessively (I had to
resend this message because of "non-existent newsgroups").

If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message,
or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my
normal newsfeed, then I'd look for it at Google Groups. BTW, I don't
necessarily agree with all the netiquette guidelines, but I observe
them anyway. I reckon if I can annoy the least number of people my
life will be a lot easier.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

Larry Brasfield · Mar 17, 2005

[Followups set to alt.politics.libertarian .]
"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
<NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:113jt3dfcmbj766@corp.supernews.com...

"Larry Brasfield" <donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote in
message newsvk_d.29$zO.874@news.uswest.net...
"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
[regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about same]
.... [regarding suggested look at TOS agreement] ...
But just because they made you waive your rights

One can interpret "coercion" broadly, of course,
but no court in the land counts the inducement
of a service offered for money as coercion.

doesn't mean that what
they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law.

I doubt that very much. What law do you
think that is? Something the U.S. Congress
passed? Case law?

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word good there.

Probabilities are often hard to quantify or get right.

The violation would
most likely involve privacy and monitoring, and/or censorship and free
speech.

Blocking something that was destined for a public
forum is hardly likely to fall under privacy law.

Censorship is something the government can do,
not private individuals, unless there is some real
coercion involved, a crime all by itself.

"Free speech" is a much misunderstood notion.
I continue to be amazed at the derivations that
flow from "Congress shall make no law ...".

[snip snip]
--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

JeffM · Mar 17, 2005

He's a Patriot! His suppression of test messages
is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act!
What are you, some kind of subversive? ;-P
Rich Grise

Careful, dude. You're not a Republicrat or a Demopublican.
You could be next on the list.

JeffM · Mar 17, 2005

There's even a website and/or newsgroup
just for how bad their service is.
http://pachell.com/
http://twiki.cageyconsumer.com/PacBellHell
Watt Sun

It appears they were sharp enough to have bought up and/or quashed
pacbellsucks.com and pacbellsucks.net:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=pacbellsucks+DSL+-pacbellsucks-org
....but then came the .info TLD:

(Odd how the more inclusive
http://www.google.com/search?&q=pacbellsucks+dial-up+OR+dialup+OR+DSL+-pacbellsucks-org
gives fewer hits.)
Google results just suck these days.
I really love the way they're ignoring my wildcards in the middle of
phrases.
Reminds me of Clippy.

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Mar 18, 2005

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news

18k31l32kn6ueeeujh6s2s8bdkgj4vv7d@4ax.com...

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:26:16 +1100, Franc Zabkar
fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:12:12 -0600, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to
do.

What do y'all think about that?

I have no problem with that, it just sounds like a bit of friendly
advice to me.

---
Friendly advice is one thing, blocking a legitimate post is quite
another.
---

He's merely restating accepted Usenet practice.

---
No, accepted Usenet practice is _not_ cancelling a post because of a
breach of netiquette.
---

BTW, it's also considered bad netiquette to crosspost excessively (I
had to
resend this message because of "non-existent newsgroups").

---
Just because your ISP doesn't carry sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups
doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
---

If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message,
or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my
normal newsfeed, then I'd look for it at Google Groups. BTW, I don't
necessarily agree with all the netiquette guidelines, but I observe
them anyway. I reckon if I can annoy the least number of people my
life will be a lot easier.

---
Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's
pushing you into the oven.

Is that 'goos idea' a Freudian slip??

--
John Fields

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · Mar 18, 2005

John Fields wrote:

[snip]

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do.

What do y'all think about that?

I think it's unconscionable. Tearing people a new a*hole for posting
test messages in this group is OUR job, not his.

;-)

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
It's easier said than done.
.... and if you don't believe it, try proving that it's easier done than
said, and you'll see that it's easier said that `it's easier done than
said' than it is done, which really proves that it's easier said than
done.

Tony Williams · Mar 18, 2005

In article <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>,
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to
do.

Since many of us saw it he didn't stop the
original propagation, probably issued a later
cancel. Third party cancels are themselves
often regarded as poor netiquette.

You missed something though John. Your post was
entitled 'Short message'. In order for your ISP
to know that it was a test post they must have
examined the *content* of the post.

This is a dangerous thing for an ISP to do, because
all posts they propagate may reasonably be assumed
to have been seen by them and they are satisfied
that no posts have an illegal content. Therefore
they lay themselves open to prosecution if a post
is subsequently the cause of legal action.

My ISP makes a big fuss about never looking at the
content of a post. In this way they maintain their
status as a common carrier (like the post office).

--
Tony Williams.

Frithiof Andreas Jensen · Mar 18, 2005

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com...

What do y'all think about that?

He's saying "Do you feel lucky, Punk"

Well, you can leave it well be or you can duke it out with BOFH (provided
you do not really need your internet connection, do not have anything in the
way of services/data storage at the ISP and your ethernet connection is well
isolated, you stand on a rubber mat while using the computer and your
computers earth connection is sound ;-)

BOFH - Bastard Operator From Hell; Alias: Abaddon, lives in alt.sysadmin.*,
lurks on root accounts:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=BOFH

John Woodgate · Mar 18, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com&gt

about
'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal
transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do.

What do y'all think about that?

Did you check the header to see if there is any evidence that it's a
wind-up?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

John Fields · Mar 18, 2005

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:18:21 -0800, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news18k31l32kn6ueeeujh6s2s8bdkgj4vv7d@4ax.com...

---
Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's
pushing you into the oven.

Is that 'goos idea' a Freudian slip??

---
Just a trypo, AFAIK...

What would it refer to if it was Freudian?

--
John Fields

Newsgroup Nazi

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