interesting

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:02:00 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtech
nology.com> wrote (in <8n9h31l7m42ghgs7qc77fr0eh1ld4fhkq6@4ax.com&gt
about 'interesting', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:
Electronics will
be 100 years old in 2006.

What happened in 1906 that qualifies as a start date?

http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html


John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:28:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
<tim@wescottnospamdesign.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:16:32 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:


Hello Jim,


And how many of Bob Pease's "tweaked" circuits have you seen that
would pass muster in a production environment?

Didn't he design the LM331? That, for example, is a remarkable chip
especially when considering how long ago it was conceived.

Same for some other "paper and pencil" designers like the late Robert
Widlar. His ideas were quite clever. Maybe with the exception of that
newspaper he supposedly set on fire at a trade show...

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


I have nothing against pencil and paper. Most of the chips on my
website were designed that way. It's only been since ~1985 that I've
used Spice simulators extensively.

And I don't really DESIGN using Spice, just verify.

...Jim Thompson

Oh, haven't you seen the new .DESIGN card? I don't have the syntax
here, but an example would go something like:

.DESIGN "I want to have a circuit that will drive an actuator that
will spritz a measured amount of air freshener once every
ten minutes or so. I don't know what the specifications of
the actuator, or if that's 30 seconds to 1 hour or ten
minutes plus or minus 1 second, but I know I need it by next
Tuesday"

Then SPICE spits out a schematic.

I have a Glade "Wisp" sitting here on my desk awaiting disassembly so
I can take pictures of my design to put on my website. Didn't know
what you asked for did you ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Terry Given]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:28:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
tim@wescottnospamdesign.com> wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:


On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:16:32 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:



Hello Jim,



And how many of Bob Pease's "tweaked" circuits have you seen that
would pass muster in a production environment?

Didn't he design the LM331? That, for example, is a remarkable chip
especially when considering how long ago it was conceived.

Same for some other "paper and pencil" designers like the late Robert
Widlar. His ideas were quite clever. Maybe with the exception of that
newspaper he supposedly set on fire at a trade show...

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


I have nothing against pencil and paper. Most of the chips on my
website were designed that way. It's only been since ~1985 that I've
used Spice simulators extensively.

And I don't really DESIGN using Spice, just verify.

...Jim Thompson

Oh, haven't you seen the new .DESIGN card? I don't have the syntax
here, but an example would go something like:

.DESIGN "I want to have a circuit that will drive an actuator that
will spritz a measured amount of air freshener once every
ten minutes or so. I don't know what the specifications of
the actuator, or if that's 30 seconds to 1 hour or ten
minutes plus or minus 1 second, but I know I need it by next
Tuesday"

Then SPICE spits out a schematic.


I have a Glade "Wisp" sitting here on my desk awaiting disassembly so
I can take pictures of my design to put on my website. Didn't know
what you asked for did you ?

...Jim Thompson

Let us know when they are up

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:39:45 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:


"John Larkin" <xxxxxxxxxx> schreef in
bericht news:8n9h31l7m42ghgs7qc77fr0eh1ld4fhkq6@4ax.com...

No anti-spam in your email address.



Oops, I just installed Agent on my new Dell and forgot to mung the
address. I should do something new so everybody will have to plonk me
again.

Thanks.

John

Wow, I'll change my email too, if it results in everyone sending me some
plonk. Hopefully the good stuff ;}

Cheers
Terry

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:39:45 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:


"John Larkin" <xxxxxxxxxx> schreef in
bericht news:8n9h31l7m42ghgs7qc77fr0eh1ld4fhkq6@4ax.com...

No anti-spam in your email address.

Oops, I just installed Agent on my new Dell and forgot to mung the
address. I should do something new so everybody will have to plonk me
again.

Thanks.

John

You should see the stink about using Earthlink's Spamblocker over on
news:rec.antiques.radio+phono

Some of them are acting like its the end of the known universe if you
get a request to be added to the approved sender list while they post
with CBer type handles and completely useless E-mail addresses.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Joerg wrote:

Same with radios and other stuff. Grandma's
tube set or my old Astor BPJ from 1959 run circles around our new
stereo. It seems that "modern" engineers don't even know how to design a
reasonable tuner or IF circuit anymore. So, even if I had to spend lots
of $$ to replace a tube in that Astor I'd do it in a heartbeat. However,
the original set from day one still worketh...

Regards, Joerg

Old radios had a tuned front end and a lot of them had a tuned RF pre
amp, as well. Good radios had more than one IF amp, and the IF tuning
wasn't lumped into a cheap ceramic filter. Some radios had variable IF
bandwidth that was done by changing the coupling of the IF filters with
mechanical linkage and a detent to select the different bandwidths. The
old Radiotron Designers handbook went into a lot of detail about
receiver design.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandT
HIStechnologyPART.com> wrote (in <37ih3152ltfs0b33so3uskvfmmobjhm6pu@4ax
..com&gt about 'interesting', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:02:00 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtech
nology.com> wrote (in <8n9h31l7m42ghgs7qc77fr0eh1ld4fhkq6@4ax.com&gt
about 'interesting', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:
Electronics will
be 100 years old in 2006.

What happened in 1906 that qualifies as a start date?


http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html


Dig that crazy SMD! (;-) But the text is strictly for the birds. It's so

far off in places, it's not even wrong.

However, the triode was used only in liner applications (or those
intended to be linear) until the mid-1930s. 'Electronics' really started
when valves/tubes began to be used in deliberately non-linear
applications.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Clifford Heath]

Tim Wescott wrote:

Oh, haven't you seen the new .DESIGN card? I don't have the syntax
here, but an example would go something like:
Then SPICE spits out a schematic.

Actually, that system really does exist. It's called Google Groups ))
You just post a request, and someone designs you a complete circuit...
or something like that.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:38:50 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandT
HIStechnologyPART.com> wrote (in <37ih3152ltfs0b33so3uskvfmmobjhm6pu@4ax
.com&gt about 'interesting', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:02:00 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtech
nology.com> wrote (in <8n9h31l7m42ghgs7qc77fr0eh1ld4fhkq6@4ax.com&gt
about 'interesting', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:
Electronics will
be 100 years old in 2006.

What happened in 1906 that qualifies as a start date?


http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html


Dig that crazy SMD! (;-) But the text is strictly for the birds. It's so
far off in places, it's not even wrong.

But the pic is nice.

However, the triode was used only in liner applications

You mean, on passenger ships?

(or those
intended to be linear) until the mid-1930s. 'Electronics' really started
when valves/tubes began to be used in deliberately non-linear
applications.

Oh, don't be so digital. I think that oscillators and amplifiers are
"electronics."

And the Abraham-Bloch multivibrator was invented in 1918.

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect36.htm


John

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHIS
landPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote (in <vj9j31djcrhsbm7o9qpet2hjne1enu8hfj@
4ax.com&gt about 'interesting', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

You mean, on passenger ships?

Yes; only the Royal Navy was allowed to use pentodes. (;-)

[sneep]

And the Abraham-Bloch multivibrator was invented in 1918.

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect36.htm

OK, I'll settle for 1918, even though the damn thing is French.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Chris Carlen]

Joerg wrote:

My youth was spent adjusting the clocks on other peoples VCRs, for
precisely the reasons you outline. As I was a programmer back then
(thankfully I saw the light and converted to analogue design) it was
fairly trivial for me to think like the machine (so to speak) and
thereby figure out how to operate it. Grandma, OTOH, never had a chance.

I wonder when the designers of VCRs ever figure this out.

It appears they have. My recently purchased DVD video recorder set it's
clock automagically.

Anyone know what's going out over the TV cable these days to allow for this?


Good day!



--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:11:51 -0800, Chris Carlen
<crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov> wrote:

Joerg wrote:
My youth was spent adjusting the clocks on other peoples VCRs, for
precisely the reasons you outline. As I was a programmer back then
(thankfully I saw the light and converted to analogue design) it was
fairly trivial for me to think like the machine (so to speak) and
thereby figure out how to operate it. Grandma, OTOH, never had a chance.

I wonder when the designers of VCRs ever figure this out.


It appears they have. My recently purchased DVD video recorder set it's
clock automagically.

Anyone know what's going out over the TV cable these days to allow for this?


Good day!

I don't know whether it's done still, or not, but PBS used to carry a
time code in the VBI.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:15:48 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

And the Abraham-Bloch multivibrator was invented in 1918.

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect36.htm

OK, I'll settle for 1918, even though the damn thing is French.

Who else would invent an unstable circuit that flip-flops?

John

 

[Keith Williams]

In article <socj31dh8v7i008rj95ogjqntjcsu6vol7@4ax.com>,
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX says...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:15:48 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:



And the Abraham-Bloch multivibrator was invented in 1918.

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect36.htm

OK, I'll settle for 1918, even though the damn thing is French.


Who else would invent an unstable circuit that flip-flops?

Sure, John (French) Kerry was rather unstable.

--
Keith

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris Carlen <crcarleRemoveThis@BO
GUSsandia.gov> wrote (in <d1ca860p5i@news3.newsguy.com&gt about
'interesting', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005:

It appears they have. My recently purchased DVD video recorder set it's
clock automagically.

Anyone know what's going out over the TV cable these days to allow for
this?

Clock data in the vertical blanking interval? A sort of vestigial
Teletext. My elderly Sony TV resets its clock by Teletext if it ever
loses its standby supply.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Terry Given]

Chris Carlen wrote:

Joerg wrote:

My youth was spent adjusting the clocks on other peoples VCRs, for
precisely the reasons you outline. As I was a programmer back then
(thankfully I saw the light and converted to analogue design) it was
fairly trivial for me to think like the machine (so to speak) and
thereby figure out how to operate it. Grandma, OTOH, never had a chance.


I wonder when the designers of VCRs ever figure this out.



It appears they have. My recently purchased DVD video recorder set it's
clock automagically.

Anyone know what's going out over the TV cable these days to allow for
this?


Good day!

In the late 1990s IEE spectrum had a hilarious article about these
stupid VCRs, many of which have *no* other mechanism for setting the
clock, other than using the time data built into the TV signal (I forget
the details of how it works).

Problem was East vs West coast time. Quite a few channels were failing
to strip the old time info and add the correct time (for, say, a
west-coast program piped to the east coast). Result - VCR automatically
fucks up the time setting whenever such a program airs. lovely.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Joerg]

Hello Terry,

In the late 1990s IEE spectrum had a hilarious article about these
stupid VCRs, many of which have *no* other mechanism for setting the
clock, other than using the time data built into the TV signal (I forget
the details of how it works).

Reminds me of a rental car. They gave me a free upgrade, with all bells
and whistles. Then it almost happened. Arrived at the hotel, stepped out
of the car, opened the rear door to retrieve a coat or something. Closed
the rear door. A sudden wind gust closed the driver side door as well.
Then "clunk", the car locked itself.

Luckily I had already popped the trunk and the wind didn't slam that
shut. Whew. After a few unlatching tricks and contortionist climbs I was
able to get the keys.

Oh, and about ten minutes later it started honking. In front of a big
hotel at around 1:00am.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Michael]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Terry,

In the late 1990s IEE spectrum had a hilarious article about these
stupid VCRs, many of which have *no* other mechanism for setting the
clock, other than using the time data built into the TV signal (I forget
the details of how it works).

Reminds me of a rental car. They gave me a free upgrade, with all bells
and whistles. Then it almost happened. Arrived at the hotel, stepped out
of the car, opened the rear door to retrieve a coat or something. Closed
the rear door. A sudden wind gust closed the driver side door as well.
Then "clunk", the car locked itself.

Luckily I had already popped the trunk and the wind didn't slam that
shut. Whew. After a few unlatching tricks and contortionist climbs I was
able to get the keys.

Oh, and about ten minutes later it started honking. In front of a big
hotel at around 1:00am.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Great story. That locking circuit is one more case of a solution looking for a
problem. Or more to the point, the result of an over-imaginative engineer's
poor design for a solution to a non-existant problem. Car mfgrs! They balk at
adding a few dollars or euros worth of parts to their products in the name of
safety, yet they willingly cram in such "no-cost" "feechurs" as DVD, cup
holders, and automatic door locking.

 

[Joerg]

Hello John,

What shocks me is that we'd do a system using 74xx gates and flops,
and it would take weeks to bring up. Now we do something with a uP, a
few FPGAs, a heap of fast ram, and maybe a dozen flash ADCs, and the
first rev works in a few days.

Certainly for high-end designs. However, when it comes to a BOM total in
the low single digits then all those nice Xilinx parts or even an
ordinary micro are out of the picture. I just had a sharp look at one of
my designs that I did in the early 90's. Mostly logic chips, transistors
and other discretes. It's still in volume production so I asked the
client what the BOM totaled up to because it would almost be a glove fit
for a newer uC. The Dollar figure I heard blew me away. It had actually
become a whole lot cheaper than it was ten years ago. Not a chance to
use a uC, not even if it was only a buck.

The combination of massive numbers of graduated EEs plus huge
productivity improvements must eventually hit the wall.

Yes, and in the end it makes no difference where on the planet these EEs
graduate.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com