How it\'s made: heat sinks...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:20:06 AM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2022 15:19:18 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

----a reply to my post after you claimed you weren\'t going to reply again, after I made a Jewish comment. So you\'re a liar. Or your killfile broke.

We aren\'t replying to you. We are jeering at you.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 05 May 2022 15:19:18 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:13:56 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:26:07 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 2:19:03 AM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 03:26:12 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 7:58:10 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 23:45:19 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 4:38:20 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:32:44 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 3:32:07 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:51:01 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:42:08 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 00:32:29 +0100, Ricky <gnuarm.del....@gmail.com> wrote:

What do you think needs to be explained? What do you not understand?
Why the device in the image is any better than air cooling. Since it is still air cooling, but 6 inches away.

It cools better in the sense of moving more heat with a lower temperature delta. What part of this do you not understand? Do you think every combination of heat sink and fan works the same?
It moves as much heat as the fan speed and heatsink surface area allow. Moving this further away serves no purpose apart from introducing another \"resistance\" in the heat movement.

You can\'t mount such large fans on a heat sink bolted to the CPU. Well, I shouldn\'t say \"can\'t\", but it\'s not recommended. At some point there is not sufficient strength to support such a large mass on such a long lever arm.
I have two 6 inch fans on mine. That\'s no less than on water coolers for CPUs.

I don\'t care about your 6 inches. The water cooler is a more effective cooler and lowers the CPU temperature. Why can\'t you understand that?
Because you\'re wrong, if you have two 6 inch fans on your water cooler radiator, you have the same air to heatsink cooling.

Clearly there is no reason to think you are going to understand, but the fans are not the only factor in the equation of removing heat. If they were, they would just put the fans to blow on the CPU and a heat sink would not be needed. The design of the heat sink and fins are important to optimize heat removal from the CPU and transfer it to the air. That\'s what the water cooler or heat pipe do better than a simple, metal heat sink.
And the heatsink on watercoolers is no better than the ones directly on the CPU. The bottleneck is moving heat from fins to air. Traditional watercooling doesn\'t change this.

It\'s not a bottleneck. It\'s a resistance. Thermal flow is exactly like resistance in an electrical circuit. The total resistance is the sum of the individual series resistances.
I know very well what it is, I have a fucking physics degree. But bottleneck is a reasonable colloquial term for anything which is the main cause of a reduction in something. Think of traffic flowing along a highway then through a one lane roadworks, that\'s a bottleneck. It\'s also a resistance.

If you have a physics degree, you would understand the differences between traffic and electrical resistance.

Sorry, it\'s too complicated for you. Imagine lots of cars going through a small road.

> So clearly I have caught you in a lie.

And what lie is this?

> I don\'t need a poor analogy, because I understand resistance. Why not just work with thermal resistance, rather than talking in analogies that you clearly don\'t understand.

To make it simpler for you.

You have no basis for claiming the thermal resistance at the metal to air interface is significantly larger than the resistance elsewhere.
Basic physics tells us it is. Air doesn\'t conduct like solid.

Lol! So that\'s physicist talk, \"Air doesn\'t conduct like a solid\"?

Yip.

> The air in this situation doesn\'t need to conduct heat. It accepts heat from contact with the heat sink fins,

By conduction. what do you think happens at the interface?

So reducing the resistance of the heat flow to the fins already reduces the total thermal resistance. In addition, you are assuming the fins, fans and everything else are the same. There\'s no reason to think that. Moving the bulk of the heat sink off the CPU means it can be designed without restriction to the weight. Noting the fans have the same diameter blades does not make the whole thing equivalent.
You\'re adding more resistance, metal to water than back to metal again.

Again, you can\'t understand that the remainder of the system does not need to be the same. You can\'t look at one portion of the system and talk about the entire system. You want desperately for the two systems to be otherwise identical, but there is no reason to believe that.

Stop waffling and get to the point.

I know you aren\'t going to understand this and are going to be in denial about it. But, whatever. You clearly have your intellectual limitations.
Anybody who uses the term \"in denial\" is probably one those greenies who thinks logical people are denying their hippy warming movement.

Or they are discussing something with someone who is in denial.

No such thing, it\'s just believers that can\'t handle people who don\'t. Mainly religion, or some other \"religion\" like climate change.

I\'m sure you will find some insane heat sink somewhere. Whatever. This is the reason for water cooling. To get a lower temperature at the CPU than you can get with an attached heat sink and fan.
You don\'t need a lower temperature. They\'re rated up to about 90C.

LOL!!!! You have no understanding of why people by
https://www.thoughtco.com/buy-by-and-bye-1689328
aftermarket CPU cooling. So there\'s literally no point in this discussion.
If they\'re not doing it to lower the temperature, they\'re not right in the head.

You are the one who just said the CPU runs at 90°C, so there\'s no reason to cool further.
I\'ve never seen a CPU get that high with decent air cooling.

Now you are doubling down on the idea. ;
WTF? I\'m pointing out air cooling keeps it well below the max.

Which is an irrelevant point. People buy water cooling to get as low a CPU temperature as possible, so they can overclock as high a speed as they can get. It\'s like any other pursuit where the the goal is to optimize something, far beyond what is useful. It\'s a hobby.

If it could run faster, it would be sold as such. Do they really think the manufacturer doesn\'t know what they\'re doing?

As I\'ve pointed out, with some water cooling setups, you don\'t even need a fan, just a pump which is much, much quieter and that can be in another room. The one guy put his in the garage. No fan, no radiator, just a barrel and a pump.
Those make sense. I used to have one. Big water tower behind my desk.

Someone I know on the Boinc projects has several GPUs water cooled by a domestic central heating radiator, which is outside his house. Could be inside, but he lives in a hot place.

Why? The CPU is happy at 90°C!
Because he puts GPUs bang up against each other with no air gap, and wants the heat outside the house.
What a tool. Like the other discussion, there\'s no point in continuing. I think you are a self contradiction.
Saying that after you\'ve responded to every point makes you a silly little child who has to get the last word in. Were you bullied at school?

As I expected. No point at all.
That\'s a yes then. Do you have specs?

LOL
That\'s also a yes. Electronic analysis of this thread determines this has a 76% chance of being you:
https://st2.depositphotos.com/1026266/10481/i/450/depositphotos_104819176-stock-photo-computer-geek-typing-on-keyboard.jpg
Poor eyesight, unable to shave, no muscles, not worthy of anything.

You are right about the eyesight. Not so right about the muscles, etc.. I was captain of the wrestling team and have been very successful in life.

A muscular geek, yeah right.

> You, meanwhile, are reduced to the pathetic presence you project in this group, completely unable to have a meaningful discussion, largely devoid of friends.

I see you suck at psychology too.

You may be unwilling to learn anything, but I\'m starting to think you actually are unable. I don\'t get why you can\'t understand that most people who buy water cooling and heat pipes for the hot rod CPUs is to cool them as much as possible, so they can overclock them.
Then they are fools.

Yes, anyone who does things you don\'t, is a fool. That cuts both ways.
No it doesn\'t. You can\'t just put in cliches and make them apply to me.

There\'s a reason your 4GHz CPU isn\'t sold at 4.4GHz. Because it\'s not reliable at that speed.

Again, you fail to understand anything at all about this thread. You are an interesting case, but I think you have been explored enough. This is pretty much a hobby, and you are getting boring.

And yet again you supply no information, you just grumble when things aren\'t going your way. Are you a bot?

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:17:36 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

\"CoLamer Trumpsey\" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in
newsp.1l23h...@ryzen.lan:
Which is an irrelevant point. People buy water cooling to get as
low
a CPU temperature as possible, so they can overclock as high a
speed as they can get. It\'s like any other pursuit where the the
goal is to optimize something, far beyond what is useful. It\'s a
hobby.

If it could run faster, it would be sold as such. Do they really
think the manufacturer doesn\'t know what they\'re doing?

You\'re a goddamned idiot with no clue what CPU makers intend.

Can\'t argue with you there. They guy is like a few others here, no interest at all in learning anything as he already knows everything.

They are sold to last years at a given run rate. Overclockers pull
down temps so they can increase that run speed and it has been that
way since the 486.

He literally doesn\'t understand the concept, plus, he\'s always afraid to admit he might be wrong and have something to learn. It would be such a blow to his world model with him at the center.

Whatever. There\'s no point in responding to a number of posters here. I wish GG had a kill file.

--

Rick C.

++-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Walliker]

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 15:35:04 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:17:36 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

They are sold to last years at a given run rate. Overclockers pull
down temps so they can increase that run speed and it has been that
way since the 486.

Sometimes a cpu family turns out to have higher performance than is appropriate for its
position in the marketing hierarchy. That is probably what leads to clock speeds
being locked as the manufacturers don\'t want to cannibalise the market for their
more expensive \"higher performance\" products.
John

 

[server]

Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:c2b88063-9360-45b3-9955-f73c7c4cf820n@googlegroups.com:

He literally doesn\'t understand the concept, plus, he\'s always
afraid to admit he might be wrong and have something to learn. It
would be such a blow to his world model with him at the center.

Whatever. There\'s no point in responding to a number of posters
here. I wish GG had a kill file.

--

Rick C.

The whole reason for downscaling is power reducetion and heay loss
reducetion. These finfet etc designs conduct better as well, so all
function improves, which should be a boon for OC folks.

I remember my first AMD machine that fried the CPU and MOBO
instantly from a less than interfaced heat sink.

Then my second was a dual CPU design which was all I would own until
now when they are multi core monsters. But even it had far better
thermal management. ALL of my Intel i series builds never had a
thermal problem. I am currently on a 12 core Xeon with a Quadro
graphics card screaming out 3D designs and renderings like cake.
Little bitty dust plugged fans still kep it cool, even those it
exibits a bit of heat depending on what I do with it. I have to blow
it out again soon. I don\'t use the little cans, I have a compressor
tank. I use it on my laser engraver to blow the dust away as it
\'burns\' a surface. I am really impresed with the quality of
walmart\'s cheap tool line. I have an orbital sander that has dust
collection and a bag built in and a dust cap on the power switch...
really nice design, and it was $15 !!! No way! Back in the
seventies an orbital cost you way more and those were way harder to
get dollars then too. Amazing how electronic and electrical devices
are about the only thing that still keeps the dream... better and
better, and cheaper and cheaper (less pricey)life gets easier and the
world never notices if they get raised around devices. They are
oblivious to the path that got us here.

You should see the technology in hospitals and even dental labs
now... amazing stuff. As we croak, they\'ll have robots doing
everything as they become fat body recliner potatoes like in
that movie WALL-E. And the \'leaders\' of the world go \'round nuking
each other.

I wonder if after today they are going to update the doomsday clock
again. Jan 20 put it at 100 seconds to midnight.

Sadly I think we are a lot closer than that.