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Rickster C

Guest
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks, although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a $5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
D

David Brown

Guest
On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!
That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
 
S

server

Guest
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.
 
E

Ed Lee

Guest
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:36:23 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.
Technically, it should be reported as income, but it\'s an honor system whether they do or not.

> It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Using money to enhance incentive is certainly capitalistic. I don\'t see the socialism aspect.

On a similar aspect, free charging in rest area is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the gas drivers. Rest area itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t service bus riders. Highway itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the walkers, and even bikers.
 
S

server

Guest
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:49:25 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:36:23 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

Technically, it should be reported as income, but it\'s an honor system whether they do or not.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Using money to enhance incentive is certainly capitalistic. I don\'t see the socialism aspect.

On a similar aspect, free charging in rest area is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the gas drivers. Rest area itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t service bus riders. Highway itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the walkers, and even bikers.
I asked some French waiters if they got the 15% \"service compris\" fee.
They laughed bitterly.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.
 
E

Ed Lee

Guest
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 8:13:48 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:49:25 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:36:23 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

Technically, it should be reported as income, but it\'s an honor system whether they do or not.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Using money to enhance incentive is certainly capitalistic. I don\'t see the socialism aspect.

On a similar aspect, free charging in rest area is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the gas drivers. Rest area itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t service bus riders. Highway itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the walkers, and even bikers.

I asked some French waiters if they got the 15% \"service compris\" fee.
They laughed bitterly.
How would they know if you are not working for the IRS, checking on their earnings.
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Guest
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 10:36:23 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.
5$ means they\'ll spit in his food, or worse, next time.

French chefs are famous for spitting in the food they prepare. I wouldn\'t order anything from them that\'s not hermetically sealed.

In US internet is full of videos of workers in food processing plants pissing in the product.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.
 
S

server

Guest
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:30:25 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 10:36:23 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.

5$ means they\'ll spit in his food, or worse, next time.

French chefs are famous for spitting in the food they prepare. I wouldn\'t order anything from them that\'s not hermetically sealed.

In US internet is full of videos of workers in food processing plants pissing in the product.
I guess the upside is that you don\'t design electronics.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.
 
T

Tom Gardner

Guest
On 24/11/20 16:13, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:49:25 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:36:23 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

Technically, it should be reported as income, but it\'s an honor system whether they do or not.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Using money to enhance incentive is certainly capitalistic. I don\'t see the socialism aspect.

On a similar aspect, free charging in rest area is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the gas drivers. Rest area itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t service bus riders. Highway itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the walkers, and even bikers.


I asked some French waiters if they got the 15% \"service compris\" fee.
They laughed bitterly.
Here it is a mixed kettle of fish.

A couple of years ago there was a fair bit of publicity over
restaurants - mostly corporate chains - that didn\'t pass on
the entire \"tip\".

Many have recanted, and state that on the menus. You can make
an inference about the others.
 
L

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Guest
tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 16.36.23 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?
it\'s an excuse to advertise an artificially low price that no one pays

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.
or an excuse for the employer to save on tax and salary and push the risk of
slow day onto the employees
 
S

server

Guest
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:20:30 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 16.36.23 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

it\'s an excuse to advertise an artificially low price that no one pays


Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

or an excuse for the employer to save on tax and salary and push the risk of
slow day onto the employees
Don\'t tip. It\'s your choice.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.
 
L

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Guest
tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 18.47.10 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:20:30 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 16.36.23 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

it\'s an excuse to advertise an artificially low price that no one pays


Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

or an excuse for the employer to save on tax and salary and push the risk of
slow day onto the employees
Don\'t tip. It\'s your choice.
so the employer is sure to get paid and save on tax and salary, the employees just
have to take the chance on customers paying a tip...

is that how you pay your employees?
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 11/24/2020 10:36 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.

What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.
Lots of places factor in a gratuity automatically for parties of 4 or
more it\'s just part of the bill.

Never personally noticed that service or food quality tracked whether a
place was tipping-based or flat-rate either. Some of the best
restaurants I\'ve been to with the best service didn\'t accept tips, I\'ve
had uncaring service from waitstaff that rely on tips all the time,
probably because it\'s expected almost nobody leave no tip at all no
matter how lazy the service is.

Silly outdated custom from the 1900s
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 11/24/2020 10:36 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.

What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.
There\'s little market-based incentive for tipped restaurant workers,
almost nobody leaves large tips and almost nobody leaves no tip. If
every customer gave you extra money that scaled up or down in direct
proportion to how good a job you did that would be something. They
don\'t. Some nights you get more, some nights you get less, sometimes you
get a big tip and sometimes you get little and it regresses to the mean
of how many customers the place is pulling on average which mostly isn\'t
under your control.

French waiters aren\'t surly because they\'re underpaid they\'re surly
because they\'re serving another PITA American tourist.
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 11/24/2020 1:37 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 11/24/2020 10:36 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake.  Pretty view, fun activities.  It\'s a bit
remote though.  They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up.  But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough.  Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS.  Until now.  Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now.  It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours.   They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute.  I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly.  I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough.   But
now I know.  They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip.  Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place.  It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\".  If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10.  If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough.  But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees.  (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.)  It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth.  It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish.  It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I
can see.

What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.



There\'s little market-based incentive for tipped restaurant workers,
almost nobody leaves large tips and almost nobody leaves no tip. If
every customer gave you extra money that scaled up or down in direct
proportion to how good a job you did that would be something. They
don\'t. Some nights you get more, some nights you get less, sometimes you
get a big tip and sometimes you get little and it regresses to the mean
of how many customers the place is pulling on average which mostly isn\'t
under your control.
The optimal strategy here is to do the bare minimum for most customers
to ensure you get at least the base tip and look for whoever seems like
they\'re the richest person in there to devote as much attention to as
possible in hopes of pulling the big ones.

And this is what servers tend to do in practice, it\'s less obvious in
restaurants but it\'s very obvious in bars and nightclubs.
 
B

Brent Locher

Guest
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 1:27:10 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 18.47.10 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:20:30 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 16.36.23 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

it\'s an excuse to advertise an artificially low price that no one pays


Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

or an excuse for the employer to save on tax and salary and push the risk of
slow day onto the employees
Don\'t tip. It\'s your choice.
so the employer is sure to get paid and save on tax and salary, the employees just
have to take the chance on customers paying a tip...

is that how you pay your employees?
I love it how non-Americans get all bothered by tipping. There are lots of ways of looking at it, but in the end it boils down to who just wants to be a cheapskate
 
L

Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Guest
tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 19.53.27 UTC+1 skrev Brent Locher:
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 1:27:10 PM UTC-5, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 18.47.10 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:20:30 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

tirsdag den 24. november 2020 kl. 16.36.23 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

it\'s an excuse to advertise an artificially low price that no one pays


Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

or an excuse for the employer to save on tax and salary and push the risk of
slow day onto the employees
Don\'t tip. It\'s your choice.
so the employer is sure to get paid and save on tax and salary, the employees just
have to take the chance on customers paying a tip...

is that how you pay your employees?
I love it how non-Americans get all bothered by tipping. There are lots of ways of looking at it, but in the end it boils down to who just wants to be a cheapskate
the employer and possibly the costumers..
 
D

David Brown

Guest
On 24/11/2020 16:36, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.

What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?
I\'ve already answered that.

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip.
Is that based on knowledge, experience, or just prejudice? It is common
in Europe that tips in an establishment are collected together and
divided amongst all the workers.

> And it\'s tax-free.

Exactly. Tax-free, unregulated payments with cash-in-hand that is not
recorded anywhere - when it is used instead of normal payments, it is
known as the \"black market\".

It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.
Getting /properly/ paid by your employer for doing your job is all the
economic incentive people need. Getting thanked, meaning customers say
\"thank you\", or talk to you - that is personal thanks. In exceptional
circumstances, leaving a tip for outstanding service is personal thanks.

Having customers judge you and determine whether they will give you
enough charity to let you pay your rent /and/ buy food this week,
because your pay is not sufficient - that\'s not thanks or incentive.
That\'s desperation.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.
That is not how socialism works. Socialism is about society helping
individuals.

Maybe you prefer surly French waiters.
Is that based on knowledge, experience, or just prejudice?
 
E

Ed Lee

Guest
It\'s socialism one-on-one.

That is not how socialism works. Socialism is about society helping individuals.
And regardless of cost and how much they deserve it. Meanwhile, they need to build up big government to support services and a few people benefiting from government contacts.

For example, our local democratic leaders are setting up hotels for the homeless, at estimated cost of 1 million each. Of course, much of the money helping the people helping the homeless.
 
J

John Larkin

Guest
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 16:48:40 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 24/11/20 16:13, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:49:25 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 7:36:23 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:48:13 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 24/11/2020 08:02, Rickster C wrote:
It\'s nice living on a lake. Pretty view, fun activities. It\'s a bit
remote though. They did put in a grocery store a while back, so no
more 20 mile drives to stock up. But it\'s just one store and if they
don\'t have what you like, tough. Then there is the pandemic where so
many people around here think it\'s fake and don\'t bother with masks,
although they do mostly respect distance.

There was no delivery of pretty much anything other than UPS, Fedex
and USPS. Until now. Instacart seems to be delivering to the area
now. It\'s the same supermarket that\'s nearby, but now it comes to me
instead of me going to it.

I had $100 order delivered tonight and they brought it in not much
more than an hour after sending an apology saying it would be over
two hours. They texted me about shortages and I had opportunities
to substitute. I know now to keep the phone handy because they don\'t
waste time and want me to respond quickly. I didn\'t get some canned
tomatoes because I didn\'t select a repacement quickly enough. But
now I know. They did deliver nearly 100 lbs of stuff for free with a
$5 charge for the ordering and a suggested $5 tip. Next time I\'ll
tip more, it\'s not so easy to find my place. It\'s pretty cool
getting stuff delivered in an hour!!!


That sounds like good service.

But I always find it strange that the USA is still stuck in a medieval
barter system for some parts of its economy - the \"tip\". If it costs
$10 dollars to handle the order and delivery, then they should charge
$10. If it costs more for big loads, or for more distant customers,
then they should either charge more to such customers, or have a
slightly larger charge for everyone so that it evens out.

When you sell electronics, you don\'t tell customers that the board costs
$100 and suggest a $20 dollar tip to the guy that soldered it.

Rare and occasional tips for exceptional service are fair enough. But
\"suggested\" tips, or tips that are virtually obligatory, are nothing
more than a way for an employer to cheat on taxes, underpay employees,
and skip on whatever payments an employer is supposed to make on behalf
of the employees. (I don\'t know what these are in the USA - typically
it is for things like pensions, social security contributions, etc.) It
means customers can\'t properly judge the real costs of services, and
feel pressured into paying more than the service is worth. It means the
system takes advantage of kind and generous people and rewards the
greedy and selfish. It means honest tax payers pay more, and the state
can do less, because you have a large unregulated black market of
cash-in-hand payments.

An honest and open economy works better for all parts, as far as I can see.
What\'s dishonest or secretive about a tip?

Unlike a lot of europe, the worker-guys actually get the tip. And it\'s
tax-free. It means \"thank you for the personal service\" and is an
effective incentive.

Technically, it should be reported as income, but it\'s an honor system whether they do or not.

It\'s socialism one-on-one.

Using money to enhance incentive is certainly capitalistic. I don\'t see the socialism aspect.

On a similar aspect, free charging in rest area is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the gas drivers. Rest area itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t service bus riders. Highway itself is socialism, because it doesn\'t serve the walkers, and even bikers.


I asked some French waiters if they got the 15% \"service compris\" fee.
They laughed bitterly.

Here it is a mixed kettle of fish.

A couple of years ago there was a fair bit of publicity over
restaurants - mostly corporate chains - that didn\'t pass on
the entire \"tip\".

Many have recanted, and state that on the menus. You can make
an inference about the others.
Service compris is organized theft of tips. Leaving cash solves that
problem, and has tax advantages.

It is unfortunate that we only tip the people we come in contact with.
Some places pool and share tips with the cooks and such, but tip
pooling is legally complex in the US for some odd reason.

Well, everything is legally complex.
 
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