Drinking and driving

[Clarence_A]

<learning@learning.com> wrote in message
news:42693aab$2$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net...

In <%Dcae.2073$zX7.1123@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/22/05
at 07:54 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:


learning@learning.com> wrote in message
news:42691193$1$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net...
In <jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk>, on 04/22/05
at 07:18 AM, John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk
said:

Yep, statistics are for the weak and mindless. Driving
drunk,
now that
is what intelligent people do.

No-one has put forward such a view.

sarcasm?

snip

He is only trying to protect those here on this NG from your
dumb
remarks!

It is only your view. It is Factually illegal to drink to the
point the
person is unable to safely drive, or to use drugs that have the
same
effect, or to drive when legally blind. Or stupid!

Your tirade has no purpose, and there is no need for your
putting the
comments here!

Well sure there is. I am entitled to say whatever I want,
whenever I
want. For proof, just note that you do the same thing, only you
wait till
the thread is pretty much run its course, then you stick in your
comments,
which have virtually no reemable value.
--------------------------^^^^^^^^ ??

Who cares what you think?

This is an Electronics NG, and Drunk driving (Your hobby, not
mine) is NOT an appropriate subject here. Try AA for the help you
need!

I agree that I have been in the hospital and came in late, and yet
my comments were as appropriate as your own. But your right about
only one thing! Who cares what you think?

 

[Rich The Newsgroup Wacko]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:27:17 -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:04:58 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
....
transport, 65% discount on services provided by the oldest trade, free
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
soup, free postage for postcards, tax-free shopping, eh, did I forget
something...?

Hookers.

I believe he's already mentioned them. ;-)
--
Cheers!
Rich
------
"After an evening at the theatre and several nightcaps at an intimate
little bistro, the young man whispered to his date, "How do you feel
about making love to men?" "That's MY business," she snapped. "Ah," he
said. "A professional.""

 

In <Bfeae.2157$zX7.1559@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/22/05
at 09:45 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:

learning@learning.com> wrote in message
news:42693aab$2$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net...
In <%Dcae.2073$zX7.1123@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/22/05
at 07:54 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:


learning@learning.com> wrote in message
news:42691193$1$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net...
In <jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk>, on 04/22/05
at 07:18 AM, John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk
said:

Yep, statistics are for the weak and mindless. Driving
drunk,
now that
is what intelligent people do.

No-one has put forward such a view.

sarcasm?

snip

He is only trying to protect those here on this NG from your
dumb
remarks!

It is only your view. It is Factually illegal to drink to the
point the
person is unable to safely drive, or to use drugs that have the
same
effect, or to drive when legally blind. Or stupid!

Your tirade has no purpose, and there is no need for your
putting the
comments here!

Well sure there is. I am entitled to say whatever I want,
whenever I
want. For proof, just note that you do the same thing, only you
wait till
the thread is pretty much run its course, then you stick in your
comments,
which have virtually no reemable value.
--------------------------^^^^^^^^ ??

Who cares what you think?


This is an Electronics NG, and Drunk driving (Your hobby, not mine) is
NOT an appropriate subject here. Try AA for the help you need!

I agree that I have been in the hospital and came in late, and yet my
comments were as appropriate as your own. But your right about only one
thing! Who cares what you think?

Sorry you were in the hospital. I hope everything is okay.

If you are born-again and feel inspired to be the internet cop for s.e.d
and decide what is allowable and what is not, I wish you well. Many have
tried, all have failed.

I suggest you start now, and berate everyone who posted on the subject,
which by the way, I think is pretty much EVERYONE. On the other hand, I am
honored that out of maybe thirty people who contributed a comment or so,
you got up out of your hospital bed and only felt inspired to try and
control me. Kind of makes me feel special...

I will keep an eye out and if you post anything that is not exactly on
topic of design engineering, you will be reminded and could quite possibly
have your hat and badge taken away.....

JB

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote (in <426822EF.82800339@Hovnanian.com&gt about
'Drinking and driving', on Thu, 21 Apr 2005:

However, I read a summary of an interesting study done about 20 years
ago. It concluded that the measurable effects of alcohol on the human
nervous system persist for up to 5 days following a person's drinking.

Was there ever any independent confirmation? I suspect not. Alcohol
concentrations would be at homeopathic levels after five days. The
results could have been stress-induced.

The implication of the study is that, while alcohol levels might drop to
zero rather quickly, the neurological effects last quite a bit longer.

The study was done in Finland, I believe. It was interesting to note
that the study subjects were requested not to drink for something like
48 hours prior to participating. When their baseline reaction times were
measured and then their post consumption recovery rates measured, the
recovery was so slow that the original data had to be thrown out and the
subjects were requested to abstain from drinking for several weeks prior
to resuming the tests.

I believe the article mentioned their use of something like pupil
response to light or some other measurement involving the eye, rather
than some test involving voluntary muscle control.

I've tried to find more material on this study, but it predates internet
posting, so Google isn't any help.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-- George Carlin

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:04:58 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

[snip]

Your sarcastic comment is actually supported by many medical people.
Over-concentration on cancer can starve other public health issues of
funds, and these are not trivial issues - AIDS, flu, TB, malaria. A
balance is necessary.

Elderly people require more medical care than others. It would be nice
if a greater part of the available funds was spend on giving these
folks a better quality of life. Because quality of life is not just health
or trying to repair the unrepairable physical defects. I vote for
spending more funds on a more social society, rather than just look
at the physical health of elderly indiviuals. The net result of the
current attitude towards these issues only adds a couple of years to
their otherwise miserable lives. I vote for 50% discount on drinks in
the local pub for age 65+, 75% discount on taxi's, 100% discount on public
transport, 65% discount on services provided by the oldest trade, free
soup, free postage for postcards, tax-free shopping, eh, did I forget
something...?

Hookers.

Reminds me of the one about the old man walking through one of the
seedier parts of town. A hooker approaches him and asks, "Hey buddy.
Would you like some super sex?"

He replies, "If its all the same to you, I'll take the soup".

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If your only tool is a hammer then every problem looks like a thumb.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

learning@learning.com wrote:

In <1sbg619vr2nr14gcci905uq8faotum369u@4ax.com>, on 04/21/05
at 07:00 PM, Boris Mohar <borism_-void-_@sympatico.ca> said:


Why is that? Most accidents are still caused by people that are
not drunken. The roads are safe enough as they are. There are
risks involved getting out of the house. And to staying home as well.
In a car you have 99.99% less chance getting electrocuted, for starters.
Interesting studies of 20 years ago... boring pieces of crap, more
likely. Statistics are often crap, and summaries are the worst.

Because no one here, or anywhere else, has quantified exactly what an
"accident" involves. Banging into the car in front of you at the
intersection is just life in the city, and not worthy of concern, but its
still an accident.

Or perhaps nobody can quantify what 'impairment' is.

Blood alcohol level is a simple proxy for impairment due to liquor
consumption, but it might not capture the longer term effects.

Without hard facts and numbers, and a useless attempt to note the
seriousness of the "accident" the stats don't mean anything.

What I do know is that far too many of the late night wrecks on the TV,
where people are dead, or seriously injured, seem to include high levels
of alchohol in the blood. Not all, but certainly quite a few.

Saying that most accidents are caused by people who are not drunk is an
empty comment, because hitting a tree in the neighborhood does not compare
to flying across the median and taking out a family on the way to gramma's

Maybe the people that appear to be sober are in fact still under the
effects of alcohol.

Some here don't think that is any big deal, but I bet a lot more think it
warrants some attention.

JB

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
The only tools one needs in life:
WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make them stop.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Hovnanian P.E.
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote (in <4269CB3D.1723786B@Hovnanian.com&gt about
'Drinking and driving', on Fri, 22 Apr 2005:

Or perhaps nobody can quantify what 'impairment' is.

True.

Blood alcohol level is a simple proxy for impairment due to liquor
consumption, but it might not capture the longer term effects.

It doesn't even capture the short-term effects very well. Some people
are noticeably impaired after three large beers, others not.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Rich The Newsgroup Wacko]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:15:28 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote (in <4269CB3D.1723786B@Hovnanian.com&gt about
'Drinking and driving', on Fri, 22 Apr 2005:

Or perhaps nobody can quantify what 'impairment' is.

True.

Blood alcohol level is a simple proxy for impairment due to liquor
consumption, but it might not capture the longer term effects.

It doesn't even capture the short-term effects very well. Some people are
noticeably impaired after three large beers, others not.

Last time I got rousted for DUI, I had a BAC of .26. And I was ambulatory.

Going by the numbers is the way of the willess.
--
Cheers!
Rich
------
""The whole world is about three drinks behind." -- Humphrey Bogart"

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:59:54 -0600, learning wrote:

In <Bfeae.2157$zX7.1559@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/22/05
at 09:45 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:
[whatever]
I will keep an eye out and if you post anything that is not exactly on
topic of design engineering, you will be reminded and could quite possibly
have your hat and badge taken away.....

Boy, you and Larry sure are easy marks.
--
Good Luck Anyway!
The Pig Bladder from Uranus

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 20:51:53 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:04:58 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

[snip]

Your sarcastic comment is actually supported by many medical people.
Over-concentration on cancer can starve other public health issues of
funds, and these are not trivial issues - AIDS, flu, TB, malaria. A
balance is necessary.

Elderly people require more medical care than others. It would be nice
if a greater part of the available funds was spend on giving these
folks a better quality of life. Because quality of life is not just
health or trying to repair the unrepairable physical defects. I vote
for spending more funds on a more social society, rather than just look
at the physical health of elderly indiviuals. The net result of the
current attitude towards these issues only adds a couple of years to
their otherwise miserable lives. I vote for 50% discount on drinks in
the local pub for age 65+, 75% discount on taxi's, 100% discount on
public transport, 65% discount on services provided by the oldest
trade, free soup, free postage for postcards, tax-free shopping, eh,
did I forget something...?

Hookers.

Reminds me of the one about the old man walking through one of the seedier
parts of town. A hooker approaches him and asks, "Hey buddy. Would you
like some super sex?"

He replies, "If its all the same to you, I'll take the soup".

"Infrequently."
"Is that one word, or two?"
--
The Pig Bladder from Uranus

 

In <pan.2005.04.23.15.48.36.978212@neodruid.net>, on 04/23/05
at 03:48 PM, Pig Bladder <pigbladder@neodruid.net> said:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:59:54 -0600, learning wrote:

In <Bfeae.2157$zX7.1559@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/22/05
at 09:45 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:
[whatever]
I will keep an eye out and if you post anything that is not exactly on
topic of design engineering, you will be reminded and could quite possibly
have your hat and badge taken away.....


Boy, you and Larry sure are easy marks.

Gimme a break. It was just sarcasm. If everyone wasn't always trying
to Bloggs everyone else around it, it would be a bit more fun........

JB

 

[Clarence_A]

<learning@learning.com> wrote

Pig Bladder said:
learning wrote:
"Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:
[whatever]
I will keep an eye out and if you post anything that is not
exactly on
topic of design engineering, you will be reminded and could
quite possibly
have your hat and badge taken away.....


Boy, you and Larry sure are easy marks.

Gimme a break. It was just sarcasm. If everyone wasn't
always trying
to Bloggs everyone else around it, it would be a bit more
fun........
JB

NOTE. I did not say what you quoted. I said clearly

"This is an Electronics NG, and Drunk driving (Your hobby, not
mine) is NOT an appropriate subject here. Try AA for the help you
need!"

"I agree that I have been in the hospital and came in late, and
yet
my comments were as appropriate as your own. But your right about
only one thing! Who cares what you think?"

BTW; My name is NOT Mark!
You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[Rich The Newsgroup Wacko]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:26:12 +0000, Clarence_A wrote:

BTW; My name is NOT Mark!
You must have me confused with someone else.

Evidently, it's not necessary for me to attempt to confuse you at all.
You seem to be doing an admirable job of that on your own.
--
Cheers!
Rich
------
"masturbation, n: A self-service elevator."

 

[Rich The Newsgroup Wacko]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:38:11 -0600, learning wrote:

That could well be. There are a lot of assholes on this list, and
sometimes they all run together as one big, brown, crap filled blur......

And you just keep coming back for more....
--
Cheers!
Rich

 

[Kevin Aylward]

learning@learning.com wrote:

In <8FQ9e.11157$Pc.8321@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, on 04/21/05
at 04:37 PM, "Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> said:

learning@learning.com wrote:
The topic led me to a web page that reports percentages of
fatalities due to drunk driving in each state which was rather
revealing.

This information is simply impossible to deterime as a matter of
principle.

Huh? I said it wrong, in that the numbers reflect the percentage of
people involved in the accident,

Yep.

and do not imply that every accident
was caused by the alchohol.

and thats not what you said.

What do you mean by 'impossible to
determine?" If the stats are collected at the scene, isn't that
pretty accurate?

Its impossible to calculate "percentages of fatalities due to drunk
driving" as you stated above.

There is no way to know if being drunk was what caused a fatality.

The fact that someone may be classified as legally drunk, doesn't
mean that such a state was actually responsible for any associated
deaths.

Oh I see, a trolling attempt Seems the stat was for location, not
blame, so I don't get the attempt....

No. I just don't like statistics spin.

Its bad enough over here with the election. Labour are claiming that
violent crime has gone down with conservatives claiming that violent
crime has gone up.

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Kevin Aylward wrote:

learning@learning.com wrote:
The topic led me to a web page that reports percentages of fatalities
due to drunk driving in each state which was rather revealing.

This information is simply impossible to deterime as a matter of
principle.

The fact that someone may be classified as legally drunk, doesn't mean
that such a state was actually responsible for any associated deaths.

Correct. All they can do is to show a statistical correlation.

However, I read a summary of an interesting study done about 20 years
ago. It concluded that the measurable effects of alcohol on the human
nervous system persist for up to 5 days following a person's drinking.
So, the problem isn't so much that law enforcement is attempting to
correlate drinking with accidents, but they are only counting those
caught with some measurable level of alcohol in their bloodstream's.

The roads would be a lot safer if people had to choose between drinking
(ever) and driving.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bradley (IBM programmer who created the Ctrl-Alt-Del reboot
keyboard sequence), "I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous."

 

In <ugni61hdhplmtgb52kmgn2u6k7fv3mf0i5@4ax.com>, on 04/22/05
at 04:27 PM, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> said:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:04:58 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

[snip]

Your sarcastic comment is actually supported by many medical people.
Over-concentration on cancer can starve other public health issues of
funds, and these are not trivial issues - AIDS, flu, TB, malaria. A
balance is necessary.

Elderly people require more medical care than others. It would be nice
if a greater part of the available funds was spend on giving these
folks a better quality of life. Because quality of life is not just health
or trying to repair the unrepairable physical defects. I vote for
spending more funds on a more social society, rather than just look
at the physical health of elderly indiviuals. The net result of the
current attitude towards these issues only adds a couple of years to
their otherwise miserable lives. I vote for 50% discount on drinks in
the local pub for age 65+, 75% discount on taxi's, 100% discount on public
transport, 65% discount on services provided by the oldest trade, free
soup, free postage for postcards, tax-free shopping, eh, did I forget
something...?

Hookers.

-Free- hookers.....

JB

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:04:58 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
<f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:jU3cdFE4cJaCFw2j@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

[snip]

Your sarcastic comment is actually supported by many medical people.
Over-concentration on cancer can starve other public health issues of
funds, and these are not trivial issues - AIDS, flu, TB, malaria. A
balance is necessary.

Elderly people require more medical care than others. It would be nice
if a greater part of the available funds was spend on giving these
folks a better quality of life. Because quality of life is not just health
or trying to repair the unrepairable physical defects. I vote for
spending more funds on a more social society, rather than just look
at the physical health of elderly indiviuals. The net result of the
current attitude towards these issues only adds a couple of years to
their otherwise miserable lives. I vote for 50% discount on drinks in
the local pub for age 65+, 75% discount on taxi's, 100% discount on public
transport, 65% discount on services provided by the oldest trade, free
soup, free postage for postcards, tax-free shopping, eh, did I forget
something...?

Hookers.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

learning@learning.com wrote:

In <iu9g61p2pvkm9afug5rv3tog7lhrk4otcu@4ax.com>, on 04/21/05
at 10:28 PM, Tom MacIntyre <tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> said:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:37:24 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

learning@learning.com wrote:

The fact that someone may be classified as legally drunk, doesn't mean
that such a state was actually responsible for any associated deaths.


I tend to agree. I think it's the ones who get aggressive and stupid when
they are drunk that are the problem. I don't agree with drinking and
driving, but, when younger and more foolish, I consistently did just
that, often when seriously drunk (we're not talking .09 here), for about
a 5 year period before I stopped. Never hit a person, dog, or car.

As far as you know <wink, wink>

Granted, most was late at night when the roads weren't as busy. When
drunk, I was the most cautious driver you ever met; I wouldn't take any
(other) chances. I credit that for my good fortune in not creating a bad
statistic, not that I was a great driver when drunk.

That, and the lack of other drivers not only late at night, but simply
less population. I am as guilty as you for being a foolish teenager, but I
am not about to brag that I drove drunk, under control and as careful as a
kitten. I thought I did at the time, but reason and logic tells me
otherwise.

There is some evidence that experienced drunks are less likely to be
involved in accidents than those with less experience. However, it
becomes difficult to convince those who are less experienced (i.e.
teenagers) that a separate set of rules apply to them. If they seem mom
and dad make it home blottoed with nothing more than a nod and a wink
from the local cops, they can't be convinced to take their situation any
more seriously.

The same goes for drug use. The poor may be more adversely affected by
the use of drugs than the wealthy. But the role models that sports stars
and business execs provide suggest that strict enforcement at this level
will be a greater deterrent than busting only poor people.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Think honk if you're a telepath.

 

In <8Yzae.5556$J12.748@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/23/05
at 10:26 PM, "Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:

learning@learning.com> wrote
Pig Bladder said:
learning wrote:
"Clarence_A" <no@No.com> said:
[whatever]
I will keep an eye out and if you post anything that is not
exactly on
topic of design engineering, you will be reminded and could
quite possibly
have your hat and badge taken away.....


Boy, you and Larry sure are easy marks.

Gimme a break. It was just sarcasm. If everyone wasn't
always trying
to Bloggs everyone else around it, it would be a bit more
fun........
JB

NOTE. I did not say what you quoted. I said clearly

"This is an Electronics NG, and Drunk driving (Your hobby, not mine) is
NOT an appropriate subject here. Try AA for the help you need!"

"I agree that I have been in the hospital and came in late, and yet
my comments were as appropriate as your own. But your right about only
one thing! Who cares what you think?"

BTW; My name is NOT Mark!
You must have me confused with someone else.

That could well be. There are a lot of assholes on this list, and
sometimes they all run together as one big, brown, crap filled blur......


JB