Constant Voltage Transformer Question

Jim Thompson · Dec 31, 2004

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Stewart · Dec 31, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

The Solas used to make lots of odd order harmonics.
But incandescent bulbs don't care.
Induction motors don't like that at all.

Cheers, John Stewart

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Dec 31, 2004

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news

hebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@4ax.com...

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--

Why don't you get away from incandescents and go with CFLs? After I
posted that thread "CFLs for a buck seventy-nine", Home Depot had a six
pack of corkscrew CFLs for even less than that. At those prices, if
they last twice as long as incandescents, they'll more than pay for
themselves in electricity savings. Amd you only have to change them
half as often, if that much.

I'm sure you'll get other expert opinions, especially from Don K. I've
been happy with the cheap CFLs I've been using, So..

Or you can probably pick up a Triplett or whatever ferroresonant
transformer in a box for cheap, and if you can stand the buzzing, it
should help.

John Woodgate · Dec 31, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <phebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@
4ax.com&gt

about 'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31 Dec
2004:

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

There might be 'start-up' issues, if you have a fitting with a lot of
lamps in it, due to inrush current, but AFAIK CVTs work very well with
resistive loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not regulate all the lighting circuits with one CVT?

You do know that they are liable to hum, don't you? And, no, they can't
learn the words.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Spehro Pefhany · Dec 31, 2004

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:07:56 -0800, the renowned "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
newshebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@4ax.com...
A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--

Why don't you get away from incandescents and go with CFLs? After I
posted that thread "CFLs for a buck seventy-nine", Home Depot had a six
pack of corkscrew CFLs for even less than that. At those prices, if
they last twice as long as incandescents, they'll more than pay for
themselves in electricity savings. Amd you only have to change them
half as often, if that much.

I'm sure you'll get other expert opinions, especially from Don K. I've
been happy with the cheap CFLs I've been using, So..

Or you can probably pick up a Triplett or whatever ferroresonant
transformer in a box for cheap, and if you can stand the buzzing, it
should help.

Voltage stabilizers are pretty common in third-world countries. I
can't remember where I've seen them for sale though. They look like
the usual metal box with a transformer in it (like 120/240
autotransformers). Not very expensive (China/India etc.). Mohammed has
one here, but he's got little feedback and the item location seems a
bit odd (is it NYC or is it Houston, "Taxes"?).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3862579284

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Jim Thompson · Dec 31, 2004

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:13:37 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <phebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@
4ax.com&gt about 'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31 Dec
2004:

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

There might be 'start-up' issues, if you have a fitting with a lot of
lamps in it, due to inrush current, but AFAIK CVTs work very well with
resistive loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not regulate all the lighting circuits with one CVT?

Probably too much for one transformer... I have 500W just in the
kitchen; but I'm open to suggestions... all the ceiling lighting is
off of a single sub-panel.

You do know that they are liable to hum, don't you? And, no, they can't
learn the words.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Dec 31, 2004

On 31 Dec 2004 13:22:03 -0800, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads. I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling
fixtures... since, 15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not change to electronic mini-fluorescent lamps? I'd imagine
they aren't very voltage sensitive and now they're available with
decent color-temperature phosphors, and some can work with dimmers.
Save on electricity, cooling energy, and manpower.

Do they make those with floodlight shaping?

I haven't been impressed with the light output of the CFLs I've seen.

I have 5x 75W halogen floods just over the cooking area... 15' up,
that's barely adequate.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Woodgate · Dec 31, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Winfield Hill <hill_a@t_rowland-
dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote (in <cr4ftr0goc@drn.newsguy.com&gt

about
'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31 Dec 2004:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads. I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling
fixtures... since, 15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not change to electronic mini-fluorescent lamps? I'd imagine
they aren't very voltage sensitive

I didn't recommend them for that specific reason. The problem is the
rectifier filter cap. It is quite heavily stressed with voltage and
temperature when the lamp is running at its rated voltage, and I didn't
like to guess the life at 130 V input.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Spehro Pefhany · Dec 31, 2004

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:48:19 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On 31 Dec 2004 13:22:03 -0800, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads. I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling
fixtures... since, 15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not change to electronic mini-fluorescent lamps? I'd imagine
they aren't very voltage sensitive and now they're available with
decent color-temperature phosphors, and some can work with dimmers.
Save on electricity, cooling energy, and manpower.

Do they make those with floodlight shaping?

Yes, but the ones we've tried have woefully inadequate light output. I
use the 85W incandescents in some places, because the 65W ones are too
dim for my eyes. The floods and the small base ones (candelabra based
etc.) are two weak spots right now. The regular replacement bulbs are
pretty good and we've got them in most places that used to have
indandescents. I'm going to try conformally coating one and put it in
the MB shower fixture unless Home Despot carries small outdoor types.

I haven't been impressed with the light output of the CFLs I've seen.

I have 5x 75W halogen floods just over the cooking area... 15' up,
that's barely adequate.

...Jim Thompson

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

John Woodgate · Dec 31, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <05ibt0t5kanq8gb9is8ke29novbq3ehbqm@
4ax.com&gt

about 'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31 Dec
2004:

I have 5x 75W halogen floods just over the cooking area... 15' up,
that's barely adequate.

You won't get a household-type CFL with as much light output as a 75 W
halogen. Do the luminaires have to be 15 feet up? Three 35 W (or so; I
don't know what ratings are available for 120 V) linear fluorescent
tubes would give you more light, but you would need to arrange a
suitable luminaire.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Dec 31, 2004

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:11:24 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <05ibt0t5kanq8gb9is8ke29novbq3ehbqm@
4ax.com&gt about 'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31 Dec
2004:
I have 5x 75W halogen floods just over the cooking area... 15' up,
that's barely adequate.

You won't get a household-type CFL with as much light output as a 75 W
halogen. Do the luminaires have to be 15 feet up?

That's where the ceiling is ;-) (They're recessed PAR3 floods.)

Three 35 W (or so; I
don't know what ratings are available for 120 V) linear fluorescent
tubes would give you more light, but you would need to arrange a
suitable luminaire.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Dan Mills · Dec 31, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson

Silly thought, but if the load is just incandecents, why not just use a big
thyristor dimmer to (possibly automatically) trim the RMS value to whatever
you happen to like?

seems like it would be smaller and lighter then a CVT and would probably hum
less.

Regards, Dan.

Martin Riddle · Jan 1, 2005

Jim,

Why not look into Buck and Boost setups. Sounds like 500W's is doable with a small buck transformer in series during the peak.
Usually its employed for Brownouts in the boost configuration. A relay and some hysterisis switching will keep the bulbs in a happy
range of voltages.

Happy New Year!

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news

hebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@4ax.com...

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

JeffM · Jan 1, 2005

Why not change to electronic mini-fluorescent lamps?
Winfield Hill

Do they make those with floodlight shaping?
Jim Thompson

Yup.

I have 5x 75W halogen floods...barely adequate

100W-equivalent floods are available.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?&q=compact-fluorescent+floodlight+23-watt

I haven't been impressed with the light output of the CFLs I've seen.

Standard (non-flood) units go up to 55W (300W equiv).

http://www.energydimensions.com/bulbs.html#55watt

Jim Thompson · Jan 1, 2005

On 31 Dec 2004 16:57:55 -0800, "JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote:

Why not change to electronic mini-fluorescent lamps?
Winfield Hill

Do they make those with floodlight shaping?
Jim Thompson

Yup.

I have 5x 75W halogen floods...barely adequate

100W-equivalent floods are available.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?&q=compact-fluorescent+floodlight+23-watt

I haven't been impressed with the light output of the CFLs I've seen.

Standard (non-flood) units go up to 55W (300W equiv).
http://www.energydimensions.com/bulbs.html#55watt

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Richard Crowley · Jan 1, 2005

"James Meyer" <jmeyer@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:jlubt0tdaav5mbmrufqrurdb4t3dons0s1@4ax.com...

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:56:31 -0800, artie <artie.m@gmail.com> wroth:

Been a while since I dealt with these beasties, and I'm operating
under
the influence of OTC cold medication, but I seem to remember the
constant-voltage devices were saturated-core, and ran hot and noisy.
Had a 6800 development system (Jupiter II, all wire-wrapped) which
used
a ferroresonant transformer. Hot and noisy!

Ferroresonant transformers have terrible efficiencies. If you want to
double your power usage, they're great! Although Jim T's description
of his
house seems to indicate that power usage is the least of his worries.

I've seen big variacs with servo-controlled motors that keep
the line voltage constant.

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Jan 1, 2005

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:0fwoxbHBEc1BFwQo@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in
phebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@
4ax.com&gt about 'Constant Voltage Transformer Question', on Fri, 31
Dec
2004:

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

There might be 'start-up' issues, if you have a fitting with a lot of
lamps in it, due to inrush current, but AFAIK CVTs work very well with
resistive loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures...
since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

Why not regulate all the lighting circuits with one CVT?

You do know that they are liable to hum, don't you?

More like BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

All the time.

And, no, they can't
learn the words.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su · Jan 1, 2005

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:h5gbt0t2ught7771jrne6jn2s82iq9mcgo@4ax.com...

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:07:56 -0800, the renowned "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
newshebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@4ax.com...
A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime,
particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next
not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform
with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures...
since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson
--

Why don't you get away from incandescents and go with CFLs? After I
posted that thread "CFLs for a buck seventy-nine", Home Depot had a
six
pack of corkscrew CFLs for even less than that. At those prices, if
they last twice as long as incandescents, they'll more than pay for
themselves in electricity savings. Amd you only have to change them
half as often, if that much.

I'm sure you'll get other expert opinions, especially from Don K.
I've
been happy with the cheap CFLs I've been using, So..

Or you can probably pick up a Triplett or whatever ferroresonant
transformer in a box for cheap, and if you can stand the buzzing, it
should help.

Voltage stabilizers are pretty common in third-world countries. I
can't remember where I've seen them for sale though. They look like
the usual metal box with a transformer in it (like 120/240
autotransformers). Not very expensive (China/India etc.). Mohammed has
one here, but he's got little feedback and the item location seems a
bit odd (is it NYC or is it Houston, "Taxes"?).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3862579

284

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--

One other thing I forgot to mention. In Calif, the electric companies
are obligated to give you service that's within certain limits, I
believe it's 105 to 125VAC. I had a problem with a piece of equipment
that would work fine in one bldg but wouldn't work in another bldg, and
it turned out that the AC was too high a voltage. I talked to the
electricians and they said it was because the transformer was delta
instead of wye. In any case they couldn't change it. Later the lab
moved to another bldg so it didn't make any diff.

But seriously, it's something that you should look into. My guess is
that you're out on the end of a high V line with loads that are dragging
it down, and the electric co decided to boost it to give an acceptable
minimum, instead of fising the problem, a poorly regulated circuit. It
could be that your line needs to have some capacitive buildout, or some
other modification, Too bad you can't mnodel the circuit in SPICE and
figure out what's wrong. ;-)

**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** · Jan 1, 2005

Are they blowing up on turn on or is it when the voltage surges? If its
the former, most likely, why not rig up a dimmer circuit with a shunt
relay with a delay-on timer of say 5 seconds. Then everytime the
circuit is turned on, the lamps will soft start for a few seconds giving
the filaments time to warm up a bit.

The RFI-EMI-GUY

Jim Thompson wrote:

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.

Al · Jan 1, 2005

In article <phebt0t0702depn17p2vc4nt0c3kip57lg@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

A major pain-in-the-ass in Arizona is lightbulb lifetime, particularly
this time of year, where one day will require heat and the next not.

So the AC voltage regulation sucks... often popping up to 130VRMS.

I was wondering how Constant Voltage Transformers would perform with
lamp loads.

I'm thinking of room-by-room regulation for ceiling fixtures... since,
15' up, it's tricky with a lamp changer pole :-(

I have easy attic access, pull-down-stair ladders, and the attic is
tall enough that I can stand upright to work in most locations.

...Jim Thompson

Voltage in my house in Massachusetts is 127 most of the time. I think it
is that high as there are a lot of teardowns being replaced with
MacMansions. These huge houses require a lot of power and it probably
drops considerably just from the pole to the house. My little house just
uses on an average of 350KWH/mo. The biggest drain is the rare use of
the electric oven.

When I got my MacPlus many moons ago, I also bought a TrippLite Power
Regulator/Conditioner. My Plus is still a go although I've heard that
many of them lost their PSs due to surges and sags. I could hear the
relays clicking in the TrippLite my wife would turn on the dryer. Now it
just sits gathering dust.

You want it, you got it, for the price of shipping and handling ;-)

You want specs, I'll send them to you if your're interested.

Al

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