Caps loadly popping on motherboard

On Dec 6, 2:47 pm, Bob Parker <bobp.deletet...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
On 6/12/2007 13:11 Alan Rutlidge wrote:



Sometime back another young poster to this NG had a similar experience with
an exploding electrolytic.
Difference was it hit him square in the forehead, leaving a crosshair
pattern resembling the vent release on the top of the cap.
Lucky he didn't cop it in an eye !

Cheers,
Alan

I installed a 10uF electrolytic backwards in an amp I was repairing
once. It was a bypass cap on an STK package.
There was a very loud bang as I was leaning over the unit, and the
cap's can flew past my face, missing my eye by maybe an inch before
hitting the ceiling then bouncing around the room.
Nice to know I'm not the only one's who done that. :)

Bob

in the very early 1980's I recall doing the occasional repair jobs for
a bloke (now retired 16 years back) who amongst other things, had a
quantity of coin-operated video games in bars and shops. One day I
remember having to service a game called "asteroids" that had a
"vectorbeam" or "XY" monitor (For those unfamiliar with this long
forgotten? technology - there isnt any raster scan, the deflection
coils are driven directly by amplifiers that are driven via 2 separate
D/A converters on the logic board, kind of like a CRO.

After a bit of stuffing around, we discovered that he had a spare
logic board of the same game, but made by a different manufacturer, so
we decided to try it. All was not well, the CPU was running and we
could see the game on the monitor, but the picture was shaking like
mad in both directions. Just as I was sticking my head in the back of
the machine to try and diagnose the fault, there was an almighty
"BANG" like a gunshot, followed by a second "BANG" a few seconds
later. Both were so loud our ears were ringing and sore for the next
hour or so.

Turned out the logic board had an onboard power supply providing +/-
12v for the D/A converters, and the AC was fed directly from a power
transformer to the board. Only problem was that one board had 4700uf
16v caps on it, and the other had 25v caps on it, and one cabinet had
a much lower secondary voltage coming from its transformer than the
other.

when swapped - BANG !

I learned a very important lesson about the dangers of electrolytics
that day, fortunately havent had a repeat.
 
In message <4757e752$0$4007$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, Marc
<marcwolf123_killthespam@killthespam_yahoo.com> writes
Since then and a smaller occasion (not backwards cap)
I always wear safety glasses when powering up a suspicious
or repaired power supply or other device with electro's
and high current supply, don't want to lose an eye either...
My safety glasses sit on the shelf just above the workbench.
I've had tantalum caps throw burning shards around too.


Better, many years ago Compaq 386 motherboards used very similar
connectors for the system fan and lithium battery, I felt the
compression from the explosion about 15 yards away.
--
Clint Sharp
 
Marc wrote:
A looooong time ago I used to work on welding machines
at a manufacturer, and hooked up the enormous ~20 x 10cm dia.
Mallory can electrolytic used on the rectified output of the
DC MIG welding output section backwards...

The sides were open on the machine in production,
luckily I was standing just behind the rear plate when I
powered it up (415V 3 phase too)...
The cap blew like a grenade, exploding its guts everywhere
with a bang and force that scared the absolute shit out of
me and everyone else in the factory.

Took me a while to clean up the inside of that machine and
all around :)

Since then and a smaller occasion (not backwards cap)
I always wear safety glasses when powering up a suspicious
or repaired power supply or other device with electro's
and high current supply, don't want to lose an eye either...
My safety glasses sit on the shelf just above the workbench.
I've had tantalum caps throw burning shards around too.
Workshop, big solid-state P.A. amplifier....senior of technicians and
part-owner of business replaced BIG supply electros - a little casually
! On turn-on it went REALLY bang, the long strips of paper/aluminium
foil tangled in the overhead ceiling fan - hilarious after the shock
subsided.

The electrolyte mist most corrosive on pretty brushed-aluminium front
panels etc., of other customer equipment....more care taken afterwards
with double-checking of polarity !

Reckon it might have been one of the YAMAHA P-2200 series from 20+ years
ago.
 
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:5rrcfhF16613tU1@mid.individual.net...
**What Voltage were the exploding caps rated for?
What Voltage did you measure on the supply?
The caps are 1000uF at 10V. The power supply is meant to be 12V and the
board is meant to run on 12V. Do you know if I can replace the caps with
1000uF at a higher voltage? I've got some dead boards but can only find 1
cap that is 10V at 1000uF.

Michael
 
"Michael C" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:475a1155$0$26468$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:5rrcfhF16613tU1@mid.individual.net...
**What Voltage were the exploding caps rated for?
What Voltage did you measure on the supply?

The caps are 1000uF at 10V.
**What Voltage did you measure across the dead caps?

The power supply is meant to be 12V and the
board is meant to run on 12V.
**What Voltage did you MEASURE on the supply?

Do you know if I can replace the caps with
1000uF at a higher voltage?
**Yes, you can. What Voltage did you measure on the supply?

I've got some dead boards but can only find 1
cap that is 10V at 1000uF.
**What Voltage did you measure on the supply?

Trevor Wilson
 
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:39:14 +1100, "Michael C" <nospam@nospam.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:5rrcfhF16613tU1@mid.individual.net...
**What Voltage were the exploding caps rated for?
What Voltage did you measure on the supply?

The caps are 1000uF at 10V. The power supply is meant to be 12V and the
board is meant to run on 12V.
This makes no sense. If the caps are original, then obviously they
weren't meant to take 12V. Either you are mistaken about the supply
voltage for your board (what is its model number?), or there are
separate +5V and +12V inputs, or the caps are on the output side of an
onboard switchmode PSU, in which case this PSU has failed.

Do you know if I can replace the caps with
1000uF at a higher voltage? I've got some dead boards but can only find 1
cap that is 10V at 1000uF.

Michael
You may find that higher voltage caps are physically too large for
your board.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 
On 8/12/2007 18:05 Franc Zabkar wrote:
You may find that higher voltage caps are physically too large for
your board.

- Franc Zabkar
He might also find that it's not only the caps which have popped, too.

Bob
 
"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:pfgkl350n3v29c52d724jp1j0ld1r86iic@4ax.com...
This makes no sense. If the caps are original, then obviously they
weren't meant to take 12V. Either you are mistaken about the supply
voltage for your board (what is its model number?), or there are
separate +5V and +12V inputs, or the caps are on the output side of an
onboard switchmode PSU, in which case this PSU has failed.
Why doesn't it make any sense? Surely all sorts of equipment has caps in it
that are lower voltage than the input voltage. My desktop PC runs off 240V
but has 6.3 volt caps. Obviously something has to step the voltage down but
something similar could be happening with this board. The board provides 5V
out for the HDD and CD and must provide lower voltages for the CPU etc.

You may find that higher voltage caps are physically too large for
your board.
I could just hang them off the board a little :)

Michael
 
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:57:18 +1100, "Michael C" <nospam@nospam.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:pfgkl350n3v29c52d724jp1j0ld1r86iic@4ax.com...
This makes no sense. If the caps are original, then obviously they
weren't meant to take 12V. Either you are mistaken about the supply
voltage for your board (what is its model number?), or there are
separate +5V and +12V inputs, or the caps are on the output side of an
onboard switchmode PSU, in which case this PSU has failed.

Why doesn't it make any sense? Surely all sorts of equipment has caps in it
that are lower voltage than the input voltage. My desktop PC runs off 240V
but has 6.3 volt caps. Obviously something has to step the voltage down but
something similar could be happening with this board. The board provides 5V
out for the HDD and CD and must provide lower voltages for the CPU etc.
If the board has 10V caps, then it was designed so that these
particular caps would not see more than 10V. I suspect they are
probably sitting on a +5V rail. It would be quite easy to perform a
continuity test with a multimeter (with power disconnected). Are the
capacitors' positive terminals connected to the +12V input or the +5V
output? Is there are short circuit between the +12V input and the +5V
output ???

With power removed, test for continuity between the power pins at the
board's PCI slots and the various supply rails and/or capacitors.

PCI bus pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 
"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:i73ml3tmaas72djkrhdiqno8tmns5jp0cr@4ax.com...
If the board has 10V caps, then it was designed so that these
particular caps would not see more than 10V.
Makes sense.

I suspect they are
probably sitting on a +5V rail.
You are correct. I just tested them and they are at 4.95V.

It would be quite easy to perform a
continuity test with a multimeter (with power disconnected). Are the
capacitors' positive terminals connected to the +12V input or the +5V
output? Is there are short circuit between the +12V input and the +5V
output ???
There doesn't appear to be.

With power removed, test for continuity between the power pins at the
board's PCI slots and the various supply rails and/or capacitors.

PCI bus pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml
They all seem to be ok except for the -12V is zero. I suspect that might be
by design for this board.

The board is still running fine, I'll just replace these caps and see if
they pop again. Maybe I touched the wrong thing as it was on the bench at
the time.

Michael
 
"Michael C" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:475b36f8$0$10472$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:i73ml3tmaas72djkrhdiqno8tmns5jp0cr@4ax.com...
If the board has 10V caps, then it was designed so that these
particular caps would not see more than 10V.

Makes sense.

I suspect they are
probably sitting on a +5V rail.

You are correct. I just tested them and they are at 4.95V.

It would be quite easy to perform a
continuity test with a multimeter (with power disconnected). Are the
capacitors' positive terminals connected to the +12V input or the +5V
output? Is there are short circuit between the +12V input and the +5V
output ???

There doesn't appear to be.

With power removed, test for continuity between the power pins at the
board's PCI slots and the various supply rails and/or capacitors.

PCI bus pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml

They all seem to be ok except for the -12V is zero. I suspect that might
be by design for this board.

The board is still running fine, I'll just replace these caps and see if
they pop again. Maybe I touched the wrong thing as it was on the bench at
the time.

Michael
I'm surprised you didn't add your other post to this thread Michael (or did
you?)

http://pizdaus.com/single.php?id=10465#read_c

I guess it says it all.
At least they put a decent brand of cap on the inside of the can.
Pity it wasn't the right capacitance and voltage rating.

The idea isn't anything new. Look at all the fake power transistors in TO3
cases out there.

Cheers,
Alan
 
"Alan Rutlidge" <don't_spam_me_rutlidge@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:475b6a5d$0$25547$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
I'm surprised you didn't add your other post to this thread Michael (or
did you?)

http://pizdaus.com/single.php?id=10465#read_c

I guess it says it all.
At least they put a decent brand of cap on the inside of the can.
Pity it wasn't the right capacitance and voltage rating.

The idea isn't anything new. Look at all the fake power transistors in
TO3 cases out there.
All is fixed now. I found 1 cap that was the right spec and size and
soldering it and another of a higher rating and added some wires to it :)
I'll keep a look out for the correct cap. I just threw away a pile of non
working motherboards thinking I'd never need em. This is the second
motherboard i've had to solder caps onto in a month.
Cheers,
Alan
 
"Marc" <marcwolf123_killthespam@killthespam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4757e752$0$4007$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
A looooong time ago I used to work on welding machines
at a manufacturer, and hooked up the enormous ~20 x 10cm dia.
Mallory can electrolytic used on the rectified output of the
DC MIG welding output section backwards...

The sides were open on the machine in production,
luckily I was standing just behind the rear plate when I
powered it up (415V 3 phase too)...
The cap blew like a grenade, exploding its guts everywhere
with a bang and force that scared the absolute shit out of
me and everyone else in the factory.

Took me a while to clean up the inside of that machine and
all around :)

Since then and a smaller occasion (not backwards cap)
I always wear safety glasses when powering up a suspicious
or repaired power supply or other device with electro's
and high current supply, don't want to lose an eye either...
My safety glasses sit on the shelf just above the workbench.
I've had tantalum caps throw burning shards around too.


--
Cheers,

Marc

* My email address requires the identical words and
* underscores removed to email me

"Bob Parker" <bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:47577ed4$0$22949$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
On 6/12/2007 13:11 Alan Rutlidge wrote:

Sometime back another young poster to this NG had a similar experience
with an exploding electrolytic.
Difference was it hit him square in the forehead, leaving a crosshair
pattern resembling the vent release on the top of the cap.
Lucky he didn't cop it in an eye !

Cheers,
Alan


I installed a 10uF electrolytic backwards in an amp I was repairing
once. It was a bypass cap on an STK package.
There was a very loud bang as I was leaning over the unit, and the
cap's can flew past my face, missing my eye by maybe an inch before
hitting the ceiling then bouncing around the room.
Nice to know I'm not the only one's who done that. :)

Bob
Can't say I've ever accidentally exploded and decent sized electrolytics,
although I have managed to put a few smaller caps in circuit arse about. One
thing that does come to mind however re. exploding caps, is when i was at
TAFE and some bright spark decided to drop an electrolytic cap in the solder
pot. Luckily it was close to lunch time and everyone had left the room
before the cap went bang and showered the room with molten solder.

James
 
"James" <dotatdot@TtpPigG.com.au> wrote in message
news:475deede@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Marc" <marcwolf123_killthespam@killthespam_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4757e752$0$4007$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

A looooong time ago I used to work on welding machines
at a manufacturer, and hooked up the enormous ~20 x 10cm dia.
Mallory can electrolytic used on the rectified output of the
DC MIG welding output section backwards...

The sides were open on the machine in production,
luckily I was standing just behind the rear plate when I
powered it up (415V 3 phase too)...
The cap blew like a grenade, exploding its guts everywhere
with a bang and force that scared the absolute shit out of
me and everyone else in the factory.

Took me a while to clean up the inside of that machine and
all around :)

Since then and a smaller occasion (not backwards cap)
I always wear safety glasses when powering up a suspicious
or repaired power supply or other device with electro's
and high current supply, don't want to lose an eye either...
My safety glasses sit on the shelf just above the workbench.
I've had tantalum caps throw burning shards around too.


--
Cheers,

Marc

* My email address requires the identical words and
* underscores removed to email me

"Bob Parker" <bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:47577ed4$0$22949$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
On 6/12/2007 13:11 Alan Rutlidge wrote:

Sometime back another young poster to this NG had a similar experience
with an exploding electrolytic.
Difference was it hit him square in the forehead, leaving a crosshair
pattern resembling the vent release on the top of the cap.
Lucky he didn't cop it in an eye !

Cheers,
Alan


I installed a 10uF electrolytic backwards in an amp I was repairing
once. It was a bypass cap on an STK package.
There was a very loud bang as I was leaning over the unit, and the
cap's can flew past my face, missing my eye by maybe an inch before
hitting the ceiling then bouncing around the room.
Nice to know I'm not the only one's who done that. :)

Bob



Can't say I've ever accidentally exploded and decent sized electrolytics,
although I have managed to put a few smaller caps in circuit arse about.
One thing that does come to mind however re. exploding caps, is when i was
at TAFE and some bright spark decided to drop an electrolytic cap in the
solder pot. Luckily it was close to lunch time and everyone had left the
room before the cap went bang and showered the room with molten solder.

James

And I remember being at Pye Telecom at Cambridge UK (a famous manufacturer
of mobile radio telephones, since taken over by Philips) a good few years
ago looking at a wave soldering machine. Apparently the fire brigade had
recently turned a hose on it...
 

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