Any way to cut telephone crosstalk?

[Don Taylor]

Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

 

[Jerry G.]

The only thing I can think of, is that your phone is not wired correctly, or
does not meet proper standards for your telephone company.

Is this a phone that is approved by your telephone company? Or, is this one
of these cheap bargain phones?

--

Jerry G.
=====

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

 

[CWatters]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...

Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If you call someone with this handset can they hear the cross talk as well?
eg is it really cross talk or just a noisy on your handset speaker?

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...

Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

When you say 'cross-talk', is it other people's conversations or echoes?
Does it happen with handset plugged straight into the wall jack? Are there
any other extension sockets on your line in your house?

Ken

 

[Don Taylor]

"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> writes:

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If you call someone with this handset can they hear the cross talk as well?
eg is it really cross talk or just a noisy on your handset speaker?

They can hear it too but not at a lower volume than here

And I loved the comment about whether this was a certified phone or not.
When was the last time your phone company came out and did product
certification?

 

[CWatters]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:g_-dndAvfaGvn5TfRVn-oQ@scnresearch.com...

And I loved the comment about whether this was a certified phone or not.
When was the last time your phone company came out and did product
certification?

Many countries have a certification scheme. In the UK telecoms products used
to (still?) carry a green triangle or a red circle lable to indicate
compliance with that scheme.

 

[Dbowey]

dont posted:

<< They can hear it too but not at a lower volume than here
What is "it?" Static, echo, CB radio, AM broadcast radio, buzz, hum, etc.
Until we know that, there is no realistic way to sort out what is the problem.


<< And I loved the comment about whether this was a certified phone or not.
When was the last time your phone company came out and did product
certification?

Whether or not it is Certified may give a clue to the problem. I'm sure the
person who posted the question is glad you enjoyed the question. If you are so
smugly smart why did you post your cross-talk problem?

 

[CWatters]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
newsu6dnTfPK5c-IpTfRVn-vw@scnresearch.com...

I don't mean to be sarcastic about this but when AT&T sells itself
and all the providers in the country seem to have realized that
they can make LOTS more money trading cell phone contracts than they
can making telephones... I suspect whoever might be left in the little
office somewhere who's job it was to certify compliance just might
have turned out the light and been outsourced without anybody noticing.

I might be wrong but I think it's been "self certification" in the UK for
some years.

 

[CWatters]

If you get the same problem when you move the phone to another socket then
it sounds like the phone is faulty. Unless it's some fancy telephone I
would just trash it.

 

[Noah Little]

Don Taylor wrote:

By eliminating all the inside wiring and the computer and everything
to the outside jack, and the problem persists, it seems like we are
getting closer to the problem. But I'm still not seeing any solution
other than going back to the 1970's Bell rotary desk phone, yet.

You've now given us information to know how to solve the problem: get
rid of the defective phone.

--
Noah

 

petrus bitbyter wrote:

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> schreef in bericht
news:7dudnWPkMsozWZTfRVn-1g@scnresearch.com...
"petrus bitbyter" <p.kralt@reducespamforchello.nl> writes:
"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> schreef in bericht
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.
(snip)

Your problem is in the phone company lines. I had the exact same
problem. Call the company and report what is happening. Good luck.

 

[Allan Adler]

How do you know it is cross talk and not some other signal,
such as a radio station's talk show?

A few years ago, I had a phone which seemed also to pick up a radio
station. It was so bad that when I tried to use it to dial up my ISP,
the computer said it couldn't find the dial tone. The problem was solved
by using a filter from Radio Shack. I only used the filter with the computer,
so I don't know whether it would have improved the sound quality if I had
used it with the phone.

Usually I consider it an act of desperation to buy anything from Radio Shack,
and it was certainly one in this case, but they actually had a solution when
no one else did.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler <ara@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:y7mdneeqQPFgI5TfRVn-hw@scnresearch.com...

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> writes:
"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.
...
When you say 'cross-talk', is it other people's conversations or echoes?

Conversations

Does it happen with handset plugged straight into the wall jack?

Yes, and even when I try it outside at the terminal block.

Are there any other extension sockets on your line in your house?

No

Okay, your problem is in the telco wiring, most likely a high-resistance
joint (or water in a cable pit somewhere). Call them and get it fixed.

Ken

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...

Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

What _kind_ of crosstalk? Is it your neighbor's conversation? That's
crosstalk. If it's an AM station in the background, that's NOT
crosstalk, that's RFI.

 

[Terry]

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:111hsibljvsm086@corp.supernews.com...

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

I think the OP is answering the question themselves?

a) Old fashioned phones were much less susceptible to interference from
strong radio signals; if this is what the 'Crosstalk' is. Those older phones
were simple, contained very little electronics, were rugged, tested and
designed to the international standards of developed countries for
performance and not that cheap. Time was when one had to get at least one
main phone from the monopoly telco! Then finally the customer could get
their own phone plug it in and just rent the line from the telephone
company.
Saw one case where a customer was trying to dial on a Canadian telephone
line with an 'antique' phone they had brought back from a trip to France
which had a completely different rotary dialing speed and percent make-break
signalling pattern. Wouldn't ring on incoming calls either IIRC. Wondered
why it wouldn't work!
Or b) If the new phone is a cordless type phone with a handset you can carry
around without wires it may be picking up somene else's cordless phone
conversation? Seen that also; kinda funny when you pay the long distance
charges for a call made by that 'other' phone! Not likely though, today with
a good quality digital cordless.
Or c) It's just a cheap and nasty $20 to $30 phone; many horror stories
about those! Some almost tragic. Cheap phones often contain electronic
components that are susceptible to picking up interference. A line powered
phone may well be an indication of internal electronics?
Back in the days of Bell telephone etc. having a monopoly etc. they had
fixes for item a) and felt responsible for all aspects of service.
Today anybody can buy an el cheapo phone not built to any particular
standard and plug it in and somehow the major improvements made to the
telephone networks during the last fifty years manages to cope even if the
phone isn't that good!
But hey ain't competition wonderful?
PS I don't blame the telcos for charging $45+ an hour for dealing with some
of the junk telephone gear that is sold and attached to telephone lines!

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> schreef in bericht
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...

Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

(And I think this might be contributing to noise with the modem,
loss of connections now and then, etc)

Any bright ideas about what I might to combat some of this?
Use the cord to make a wrap or two around a ferrite torroid?
Anything else? (cheap new phone is line powered, not wall powered)

Thanks

Crosstalk is about unwanted signal transfer between two (telephone)lines, so
two sets of wires. So what other line do you hear after dialing that 1?
Can't imagine crosstalk in the last 4 foot cord where you are the only user.
So what do you hear? Yourself? Then most likely the antilocalcircuit in your
phone is broken. The old machines used transformers that are almost
undestructable but the new electronic circuits are more sensitive. Other
possibilties are wrong wiring and bad contacts.

Do you achieve the same result if you keep the modemcard out? Then the above
stands. If not, you have to look for more precisely for bad contacts between
phone and modem. That RJxx jackets sometimes get lame contacts. The plug
also can be damaged. I met both cases several times.

If you really hear another line, it's almost sure the impedance matching
between line and phone is very bad. Most likely some circuit in the phone
became defective although wrong wiring and bad contacts are also a possible
cause (as always).

petrus bitbyter

 

[Don Taylor]

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> writes:

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.
....
When you say 'cross-talk', is it other people's conversations or echoes?

Conversations

Does it happen with handset plugged straight into the wall jack?

Yes, and even when I try it outside at the terminal block.

Are there any other extension sockets on your line in your house?

No

 

[Don Taylor]

"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> writes:

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote in message
news:g_-dndAvfaGvn5TfRVn-oQ@scnresearch.com...

And I loved the comment about whether this was a certified phone or not.
When was the last time your phone company came out and did product
certification?

Many countries have a certification scheme. In the UK telecoms products used
to (still?) carry a green triangle or a red circle lable to indicate
compliance with that scheme.

I don't mean to be sarcastic about this but when AT&T sells itself
and all the providers in the country seem to have realized that
they can make LOTS more money trading cell phone contracts than they
can making telephones... I suspect whoever might be left in the little
office somewhere who's job it was to certify compliance just might
have turned out the light and been outsourced without anybody noticing.

 

[Don Taylor]

dbowey@aol.com (Dbowey) writes:

dont posted:
They can hear it too but not at a lower volume than here

What is "it?" Static, echo, CB radio, AM broadcast radio, buzz, hum, etc.
Until we know that, there is no realistic way to sort out what is the problem.

I was answering the question I was asked, "can the person on the other
end of the phone hear this same conversation that I'm hearing or is
it strictly limited to my end.

And I loved the comment about whether this was a certified phone or not.
When was the last time your phone company came out and did product
certification?

Whether or not it is Certified may give a clue to the problem. I'm sure the
person who posted the question is glad you enjoyed the question. If you are so
smugly smart why did you post your cross-talk problem?

Well, I was thinking someone might have a list of moderately simple
techniques that could kill the noise, I searched and didn't find
any such list, before I even asked the question.

Having now checked ALL the phones I have here and there the ONLY
certification I can see on any one of them is that a couple claim
they comply with Part 68, which if I remember correctly is that
they aren't supposed to radiate enough to interfere with anything
else but unless I've forgotten Part 68 said nothing about a device
not being interfered WITH. (And the old "real AT&T phone" has a
ringer equivalency, but that seems like it went out of style about
the time AT&T lost the ruling against Dataphone and connecting
anything other than AT&T equipment to the line. I can remember
getting a letter from the phone company 30 years ago when they did
a ringer sweep of the town and sent warning letters to everyone who
had a greater load than the number of phones they were paying for.)

So what's the certification ruling about phones not being subject
to cross talk? I 'm curious. We've got a federal documents
repository downtown and I'll go look it up.

Thank you

 

[Don Taylor]

"petrus bitbyter" <p.kralt@reducespamforchello.nl> writes:

"Don Taylor" <dont@agora.rdrop.com> schreef in bericht
news:xf2dnQ2gQqbRxJXfRVn-tQ@scnresearch.com...
Wall jack, 4 foot cord, internal modem, 4 foot cord, telephone.

If it is a "newer" phone, the 6 ounce plastic pushbutton kind,
I pick up the handset, dial 1 and listen there is LOUD crosstalk.

If I unplug that and go dig out my ancient old ITT bell rotary 3 pound
desk phone from decades ago and try the same there is NO crosstalk.

Crosstalk is about unwanted signal transfer between two (telephone)lines, so
two sets of wires. So what other line do you hear after dialing that 1?
Can't imagine crosstalk in the last 4 foot cord where you are the only user.
So what do you hear? Yourself? Then most likely the antilocalcircuit in your
phone is broken. The old machines used transformers that are almost
undestructable but the new electronic circuits are more sensitive. Other
possibilties are wrong wiring and bad contacts.

Conversation from somewhere else, that was why I called it crosstalk
rather than echo. And as I said, identical results if I take the pair
of phones outside to the terminal block and repeat the experiment there
with no inside wiring, no modem, no computer.

Do you achieve the same result if you keep the modemcard out? Then the above
stands. If not, you have to look for more precisely for bad contacts between
phone and modem. That RJxx jackets sometimes get lame contacts. The plug
also can be damaged. I met both cases several times.

I've looked at jack and plug, both appear to be clean, not corroded,
not badly bent, pretty good looking to me.

If you really hear another line, it's almost sure the impedance matching
between line and phone is very bad. Most likely some circuit in the phone
became defective although wrong wiring and bad contacts are also a possible
cause (as always).

By eliminating all the inside wiring and the computer and everything
to the outside jack, and the problem persists, it seems like we are
getting closer to the problem. But I'm still not seeing any solution
other than going back to the 1970's Bell rotary desk phone, yet.

thanks