XTL choice for 137Hz w/ CD4046

Don Lerner
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:22 am

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

anthony fremont
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:44 am

On Mar 9, 5:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

Just how accurate does it need to be?

Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:03 am

On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

Join the 21st century and use a microcontroller.

mpm
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:31 am

On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively easy to get
137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Joerg
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:01 am

Don Lerner wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

As the other posters said a uC is the better choice here. If it
absolutely has to be the 4060 the procedure goes like this:

Let Excel display a (2^x)*137 ladder of values, then see if any one
comes close to a standard crystal. The only one I could see would be the
former European chroma carrier frequency of 4.43MHz but you'd need
4.49MHz. Not easy to pull a crystal that far, it's more than a percent.
I don't think this is really going to work with a crystal unless you use
a uC, or the timer in there in particular.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:36 am

On 3/9/2010 8:44 PM, mpm wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively easy to get
137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the distributor,
for a few bucks, at any frequency you like.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Bill Sloman
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:03 pm

On Mar 10, 12:22 am, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

As Joerg has pointed out, a straight divide by 2^n approach isn't too
promising.

Throw in a 74HC40103 programmable 8-bit down-counter (or two) - which
can divided by any number from 255 down, and you should be able to get
pretty close.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

pimpom
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:16 pm

Don Lerner wrote:

Quote:

If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down
outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my
mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and
would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

A 560kHz ceramic resonator seems to be commonly available.
Dividing by 4096 (12 stages) gives you 136.71875Hz. I don't know
if you can push it to 561.152kHz to get an exact 137Hz.

pimpom
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:32 pm

pimpom wrote:

Quote:

Don Lerner wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down
outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my
mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and
would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

A 560kHz ceramic resonator seems to be commonly available.
Dividing by 4096 (12 stages) gives you 136.71875Hz. I don't
know
if you can push it to 561.152kHz to get an exact 137Hz.

Or, if you're not firmly committed to using a 4060, you can use a
CD4059 presettable counter to get 137Hz from just about any
crystal (within reason of course). That includes a common
32.768kHz watch crystal divided by 239, the ubiquitous 455kHz
resonator divided by 3321, 1MHz/7299 and so on.

Joel Koltner
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:07 pm

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless_at_electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:4B9713A9.5050005_at_electrooptical.net...

Quote:

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the distributor, for a
few bucks, at any frequency you like.

I would second this -- it's a very good, fast, and inexpensive way to go. The
only caveat is that these scillators are usually targeted towards digital
applications, so their phase noise tends to be rather poor; just something to
be aware of if it matters in your application.

Joerg
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:54 pm

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Quote:

On 3/9/2010 8:44 PM, mpm wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively easy to get
137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the distributor,
for a few bucks, at any frequency you like.

But that's like ordering take-out pizza.

We always make our own from scratch, including dough and all :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Joerg
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:55 pm

Bill Sloman wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 10, 12:22 am, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

As Joerg has pointed out, a straight divide by 2^n approach isn't too
promising.

Throw in a 74HC40103 programmable 8-bit down-counter (or two) - which
can divided by any number from 255 down, and you should be able to get
pretty close.

Hey, how's the ticker doing? Much better than before the new valve?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Fred Bartoli
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:11 pm

Joerg a écrit :

Quote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 3/9/2010 8:44 PM, mpm wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively easy to get
137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the distributor,
for a few bucks, at any frequency you like.

But that's like ordering take-out pizza.

We always make our own from scratch, including dough and all :-)

.... but what noise does your pizza make when it's toasted?

--
Thanks,
Fred.

pimpom
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:18 pm

Joerg wrote:

Quote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 3/9/2010 8:44 PM, mpm wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down
outputs available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so
my mind
is buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure
and
would be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there
that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an
external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively
easy to
get 137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like
the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the
distributor, for a few bucks, at any frequency you like.

But that's like ordering take-out pizza.

We always make our own from scratch, including dough and all
Smile

So far the OP hasn't come back to clarify one vital point:
whether he's simply looking for a way to generate 137Hz pulses
or, for some reason, he wants to do it with a crystal and a
CD4060. Neither has he given any indication of the degree of
precision and stability he needs.

Joerg
Guest

Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:30 pm

Fred Bartoli wrote:

Quote:

Joerg a écrit :
Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 3/9/2010 8:44 PM, mpm wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:22 pm, donler...@quantumx.com (Don Lerner) wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.

Don Lerner

I would use a microcontroller for this.
There are some small, inexpensive 8-pin devices out there that have
internal clocks and counters.
For example, this one should do nicely:
Link:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=568-2245-5-ND

It has an internal 7.373 MHz oscillator, or you can use an external
crystal (from 20 kHz to 12 MHz).
Just use software to count it down. Should be relatively easy to get
137 Hz out on a port pin.

If you are not terribly familiar with uPC's, this sound like the
PERFECT project to learn about them!!
It doesn't get too much easier than this.

Good luck with your project!!
-mpm

Of course you can get programmable XOs, programmed by the
distributor, for a few bucks, at any frequency you like.

But that's like ordering take-out pizza.

We always make our own from scratch, including dough and all :-)

... but what noise does your pizza make when it's toasted?

Real men don't toast pizza, they bake it over a wood or charcoal fire,
beer in hand :-)

BTW, we sometimes bake bread that way. It's so good you can't stop
eating. Now if we just had your Camembert cheeses ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.