XTL choice for 137Hz w/ CD4046

Well, yeah, but Don wanted to use just a CD4060, for whatever
reason.
I think a uC is the proper way to handle this.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:

[FT crystals]

These days such crystals are usually bought by collectors, restorers or
hardcore homebrewers.


That's what I said in another message.


Well, yeah, and that's why these old crystals don't fetch top Dollar
anymore. There aren't many of those folks left, many have gone to
nursing homes, others have already moved past that stage.

I remember my first hamfest visit when these crystals were hot
commodities. Because you could customize the frequency with little more
than a screwdriver, 600-grit sandpaper and polishing paste. Then came
the Motorola synthesizer chip MC-something and it was all over, you
could suddenly fetch these crystals by the baker's dozen for little money.

It's like with nuvistors, marvelous devices for experiments when there's
a chance a big zap coming along, tons of dynamic range, low noise. Yet
rarely a taker on EBay and occasionally whole cartons full of NOS from
Russian production get dumped there. Youngsters wouldn't even know how
to wire one up.

Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
[FT crystals]

These days such crystals are usually bought by collectors, restorers or
hardcore homebrewers.

That's what I said in another message.

Well, yeah, and that's why these old crystals don't fetch top Dollar
anymore. There aren't many of those folks left, many have gone to
nursing homes, others have already moved past that stage.

I remember my first hamfest visit when these crystals were hot
commodities. Because you could customize the frequency with little more
than a screwdriver, 600-grit sandpaper and polishing paste. Then came
the Motorola synthesizer chip MC-something and it was all over, you
could suddenly fetch these crystals by the baker's dozen for little money.

It's like with nuvistors, marvelous devices for experiments when there's
a chance a big zap coming along, tons of dynamic range, low noise. Yet
rarely a taker on EBay and occasionally whole cartons full of NOS from
Russian production get dumped there. Youngsters wouldn't even know how
to wire one up.


Or to find a tube socket. I still have some NOS RCA 6CW4 or 6DS4 in
storage.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
[FT crystals]

These days such crystals are usually bought by collectors, restorers or
hardcore homebrewers.

That's what I said in another message.

Well, yeah, and that's why these old crystals don't fetch top Dollar
anymore. There aren't many of those folks left, many have gone to
nursing homes, others have already moved past that stage.

I remember my first hamfest visit when these crystals were hot
commodities. Because you could customize the frequency with little more
than a screwdriver, 600-grit sandpaper and polishing paste. Then came
the Motorola synthesizer chip MC-something and it was all over, you
could suddenly fetch these crystals by the baker's dozen for little money.

It's like with nuvistors, marvelous devices for experiments when there's
a chance a big zap coming along, tons of dynamic range, low noise. Yet
rarely a taker on EBay and occasionally whole cartons full of NOS from
Russian production get dumped there. Youngsters wouldn't even know how
to wire one up.


Or to find a tube socket. I still have some NOS RCA 6CW4 or 6DS4 in
storage.


Possibly Sovtek still makes sockets. In a pinch I've even soldered
directly to the pins of tubes although that really puts a knot into the
stomach of a true tube enthusiast.

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)


You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:14:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)

You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork :-)

K7ZAE from about 1964 until 1970, then I lost interest (once I figured
out how to make PLL's

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:14:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)

You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork :-)

K7ZAE from about 1964 until 1970, then I lost interest (once I figured
out how to make PLL's :-)


I did it much longer. Then I got a job and married ...

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:14:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)

You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork :-)

K7ZAE from about 1964 until 1970, then I lost interest (once I figured
out how to make PLL's


I did it much longer. Then I got a job and married ...

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:55:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:14:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)

You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork
K7ZAE from about 1964 until 1970, then I lost interest (once I figured
out how to make PLL's

I did it much longer. Then I got a job and married ...

I got married March 31 of my sophomore year at MIT.

This March 31 will be our 50th anniversary :-)

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:47:29 +1000, David Eather<eather_at_tpg.com.au
wrote:

On 11/03/2010 6:06 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Don Lerner wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.


As the other posters said a uC is the better choice here. If it
absolutely has to be the 4060 the procedure goes like this:

Let Excel display a (2^x)*137 ladder of values, then see if any one
comes close to a standard crystal. The only one I could see would be the
former European chroma carrier frequency of 4.43MHz but you'd need
4.49MHz. Not easy to pull a crystal that far, it's more than a percent.
I don't think this is really going to work with a crystal unless you use
a uC, or the timer in there in particular.


This is a list of frequencies available from the Digikey website:


20.000 kHz
25.600 kHz
26.667 kHz
28.000 kHz
30.000 kHz

30.720 kHz
30.760 kHz
31.200 kHz
31.250 kHz
31.500 kHz


32.000 kHz
32.560 kHz
32.768 kHz
32.919 kHz
34.000 kHz

36.000 kHz
38.000 kHz
38.400 kHz
39.500 kHz
40.000 kHz


44.100 kHz
46.604 kHz
46.6084kHz
50.000 kHz
59.787 kHz

60.000 kHz
60.002 kHz
60.005 kHz
65.535 kHz
65.536 kHz


69.000 kHz
70.000 kHz


137 * 512 = 70.144k

an error of .2 percent. You should be able to trim that out

---
Since:


70000 Hz
---------- = 136.718 Hz
512

which is on the low side of 137Hz by a couple of thousand ppm, that's
unlikely.

JF

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:55:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:14:36 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:46:00 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

[snip]
I know what the multiplier chain for an old 2-meter rig looked like.
I serviced them for 30+ years, and still have a Harris business radio
that was converted to 2 Meters to monitor the local repeaters.
[snip]

My first home-brew 2-meter transmitter used a power varactor tripler
:-)

You had/have a ham radio license? Now they all come out of the woodwork
K7ZAE from about 1964 until 1970, then I lost interest (once I figured
out how to make PLL's

I did it much longer. Then I got a job and married ...

I got married March 31 of my sophomore year at MIT.

This March 31 will be our 50th anniversary :-)


Did you already book Rustler's Roost for the big party?

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:47:29 +1000, David Eather<eather_at_tpg.com.au
wrote:

On 11/03/2010 6:06 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Don Lerner wrote:
If I use a CD 4060 to generate 137 Hz, given the divide down outputs
available, what frequency crystal should I use?

I am not aware of what crystals are commonly available, so my mind is
buckling trying to find a starting point.

Perhaps someone here is more familliar with this procedure and would
be so kind as to offer advice.


As the other posters said a uC is the better choice here. If it
absolutely has to be the 4060 the procedure goes like this:

Let Excel display a (2^x)*137 ladder of values, then see if any one
comes close to a standard crystal. The only one I could see would be the
former European chroma carrier frequency of 4.43MHz but you'd need
4.49MHz. Not easy to pull a crystal that far, it's more than a percent.
I don't think this is really going to work with a crystal unless you use
a uC, or the timer in there in particular.


This is a list of frequencies available from the Digikey website:


20.000 kHz
25.600 kHz
26.667 kHz
28.000 kHz
30.000 kHz

30.720 kHz
30.760 kHz
31.200 kHz
31.250 kHz
31.500 kHz


32.000 kHz
32.560 kHz
32.768 kHz
32.919 kHz
34.000 kHz

36.000 kHz
38.000 kHz
38.400 kHz
39.500 kHz
40.000 kHz


44.100 kHz
46.604 kHz
46.6084kHz
50.000 kHz
59.787 kHz

60.000 kHz
60.002 kHz
60.005 kHz
65.535 kHz
65.536 kHz


69.000 kHz
70.000 kHz


137 * 512 = 70.144k

an error of .2 percent. You should be able to trim that out

---
Since:


70000 Hz
---------- = 136.718 Hz
512

which is on the low side of 137Hz by a couple of thousand ppm, that's
unlikely.

JF

I got married March 31 of my sophomore year at MIT.

This March 31 will be our 50th anniversary

Jim Thompson wrote:

I got married March 31 of my sophomore year at MIT.

This March 31 will be our 50th anniversary :-)

You married at 19? Me,

I waited another 14 years after my 19th
birthday. I married a girl I taught during a brief stint at
teaching.

Story: Back in January 1975, my sister's 11-month old son fell 20
ft onto a stone pavement and very very nearly died. During the
crucial months of the baby's recovery, I subbed for my sister at
the all-girl high school where she was working. I got along well
with the kids and made a bit of a name for myself among the high
school students of my town (pop. then about 50k). My rapport with
the students helped curb a riot when there was a scandal in
connection with the state's board exams, and I helped catch the
culprits. Senior government officials were fired or forced to
resign. So the government asked me to stay on. I left the next
year, but I might not have got to know my wife well enough to
marry her 9 years later if I'd left when my sister was able to
resume teaching again. Funny how things work out.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:57:14 +0530, "pimpom"
pimpom_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

I got married March 31 of my sophomore year at MIT.

This March 31 will be our 50th anniversary :-)

You married at 19? Me,

I turned _20_ on February 20, 1960, married on March 31, 1960

Heck, blame it on the fact that it was 4 AM when I typed that. I