XO controlled 480Hz Oscillator

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:35:43 -0500, ehsjr <eh...@nospamverizon.net
wrote:

Use Q13 to divide by 8192.

 Qn     DIV BY
-----|---------
 Q0       2
 Q1       4
 Q2       8
 Q3      16
 Q4      32
 Q5      64
 Q6     128
 Q7     256
 Q8     512
 Q9    1024
 Q10   2048
 Q11   4096
 Q12   8192
 Q13  16384

 :-)

JF

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO,
seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be
the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:18:06 -0600, John Fields <jfields_at_austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:35:43 -0500, ehsjr <ehsjr_at_nospamverizon.net
wrote:

Use Q13 to divide by 8192.

Qn DIV BY
-----|---------
Q0 2
Q1 4
Q2 8
Q3 16
Q4 32
Q5 64
Q6 128
Q7 256
Q8 512
Q9 1024
Q10 2048
Q11 4096
Q12 8192
Q13 16384

:-)


JF

I suspect that some datasheets list the outputs as Q1 through Q14.

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:53:12 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 5, 6:23 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:52:50 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:56:24 -0600, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:47:50 -0800, Chris wrote:

The simplest way is MCU with external crystal. For 480 Hz output, the
crystal is likely to be a multiple of 3 MHz. The 12.0 MHz would be the
most common.

Is an MCU the same as a PIC?

All PICs are MCUs.  Not all MCUs are PICs.  The top contenders that I
know of are the PIC and the AVR from Atmel.  There are probably low pin-
count 8051 derivatives out there, not to mention the '430 from TI.

Intersil ought to revive the 1802 core, in a 16-pin package surrounded by
all the usual peripherals.

I would certainly like to see them again, i liked the architecture, though many did not.

If you liked the 1802, I assume you also like wacking your thumb with
a hammer.

If you want a grotesque architecture try the Fairchild 3850 uP.  I guarantee the 1802 is
sweetness and light by comparison.  And my thumbs are all perfectly safe from my several
hammers.

So you say the 1802 is less ugly than its 3 ugly sisters.  Still:

  LD   LOW(ValueA)
  PLO  R3
  LD   HIGH(ValueA)
  PHI  R3
  LD   LOW(ValueB)
  PLO  R4
  LD   HIGH(ValueB)
  PHI  R4
  LD   LOW(ValueC)
  PLO  R5
  LD   HIGH(ValueC)
  PHI  R5
  LDN  R3
  SEX  R4
  ADD
  STN  R5

Thats 16 instructions to do C=A+B where the 3 are all in random
places.
Way back when, the boss designed in the 1802 to save power.  The need
for a lot of instructs meant that we had to put 3 EEPROM chips on it
to hold the code.  It was in a "power up - do it - power off" sort
of application.  I tried to explain at the time that a Z80L would draw
more power while it was on but it would be powered on for so much less
time that it wouldn't matter.  As it was we couldn't keep the display
going while we did RS-232 or anything like that.  It had to a purely
one thing at a time program.

Really.  Abusing the instruction set like that to attempt to make a point?

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:35:43 -0500, ehsjr <ehsjr_at_nospamverizon.net
wrote:


Use Q13 to divide by 8192.


Qn DIV BY
-----|---------
Q0 2
Q1 4
Q2 8
Q3 16
Q4 32
Q5 64
Q6 128
Q7 256
Q8 512
Q9 1024
Q10 2048
Q11 4096
Q12 8192
Q13 16384

:-)


JF

On Feb 2, 8:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
 > What is the simplest way to get480Hzfrom a crystal controlled
 > oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO,
seem
 > to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be
the
 > best way?
 
 > Thanks,
 > Chris KQ6UP

You in North America? PLL the 60Hz power supply up to 480 hz. It will
be spot on for frequency.

G²

On Feb 5, 6:15 pm, Glenn Gundlach <stratu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 2, 8:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the simplest way to get480Hzfrom a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO,
seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be
the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

You in North America? PLL the 60Hz power supply up to 480 hz. It will
be spot on for frequency.

G²

Yes, I am in North America. I need the deck to be portable, so
working off of mains is not usually going to be an option. The
capstan motor does run on 60Hz 120VAC, but I would only be able to
shoot footage where I have mains. The crystal/fork is for the
inverter as the tape transport is run by a sync motor with a
sprocketed capstan (the tape is perforated).

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:48:45 -0800, the renowned
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:18:06 -0600, John Fields <jfields_at_austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:35:43 -0500, ehsjr <ehsjr_at_nospamverizon.net
wrote:

Use Q13 to divide by 8192.

Qn DIV BY
-----|---------
Q0 2
Q1 4
Q2 8
Q3 16
Q4 32
Q5 64
Q6 128
Q7 256
Q8 512
Q9 1024
Q10 2048
Q11 4096
Q12 8192
Q13 16384

:-)


JF

I suspect that some datasheets list the outputs as Q1 through Q14.

Function of pin #3
Fairchild Q14
NXP Q13
ON Q14
ST Q14
TI QN

On Feb 5, 5:43 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:53:12 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 5, 6:23 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:52:50 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:56:24 -0600, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:47:50 -0800, Chris wrote:

The simplest way is MCU with external crystal. For 480 Hz output, the
crystal is likely to be a multiple of 3 MHz. The 12.0 MHz would be the
most common.

Is an MCU the same as a PIC?

All PICs are MCUs.  Not all MCUs are PICs.  The top contenders that I
know of are the PIC and the AVR from Atmel.  There are probably low pin-
count 8051 derivatives out there, not to mention the '430 from TI.

Intersil ought to revive the 1802 core, in a 16-pin package surrounded by
all the usual peripherals.

I would certainly like to see them again, i liked the architecture, though many did not.

If you liked the 1802, I assume you also like wacking your thumb with
a hammer.

If you want a grotesque architecture try the Fairchild 3850 uP.  I guarantee the 1802 is
sweetness and light by comparison.  And my thumbs are all perfectly safe from my several
hammers.

So you say the 1802 is less ugly than its 3 ugly sisters.  Still:

  LD   LOW(ValueA)
  PLO  R3
  LD   HIGH(ValueA)
  PHI  R3
  LD   LOW(ValueB)
  PLO  R4
  LD   HIGH(ValueB)
  PHI  R4
  LD   LOW(ValueC)
  PLO  R5
  LD   HIGH(ValueC)
  PHI  R5
  LDN  R3
  SEX  R4
  ADD
  STN  R5

Thats 16 instructions to do C=A+B where the 3 are all in random
places.
Way back when, the boss designed in the 1802 to save power.  The need
for a lot of instructs meant that we had to put 3 EEPROM chips on it
to hold the code.  It was in a "power up - do it - power off" sort
of application.  I tried to explain at the time that a Z80L would draw
more power while it was on but it would be powered on for so much less
time that it wouldn't matter.  As it was we couldn't keep the display
going while we did RS-232 or anything like that.  It had to a purely
one thing at a time program.

Really.  Abusing the instruction set like that to attempt to make a point?

Can you do the required operation in fewer?

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:13:58 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP_at_interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:48:45 -0800, the renowned
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:18:06 -0600, John Fields <jfields_at_austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:35:43 -0500, ehsjr <ehsjr_at_nospamverizon.net
wrote:

Use Q13 to divide by 8192.

Qn DIV BY
-----|---------
Q0 2
Q1 4
Q2 8
Q3 16
Q4 32
Q5 64
Q6 128
Q7 256
Q8 512
Q9 1024
Q10 2048
Q11 4096
Q12 8192
Q13 16384

:-)


JF

I suspect that some datasheets list the outputs as Q1 through Q14.

Function of pin #3
Fairchild Q14
NXP Q13
ON Q14
ST Q14
TI QN

---
I suspect you're right.

I got my data from the Philips 1996 CMOS data book, but going back to
the RCA bible, it's listed as Q14.

Thanks for the reality check. :-)

JF

Chris wrote:

On Feb 5, 6:15 pm, Glenn Gundlach <stratu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 2, 8:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
 > What is the simplest way to get480Hzfrom a crystal controlled
 > oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO,
seem
 > to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be
the
 > best way?

 > Thanks,
 > Chris KQ6UP

You in North America? PLL the 60Hz power supply up to 480 hz. It will
be spot on for frequency.

G²

Yes, I am in North America.  I need the deck to be portable, so
working off of mains is not usually going to be an option.  The
capstan motor does run on 60Hz 120VAC, but I would only be able to
shoot footage where I have mains.  The crystal/fork is for the
inverter as the tape transport is run by a sync motor with a
sprocketed capstan (the tape is perforated).

   Digikey has 60 KHz crystals. Divide by 5 three times, then by 2 for
your 480 Hz.  Or just divide by 1000 and low pass filter it before
amplfing it to drive the 60Hz motor.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:38:04 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 5, 5:43 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:53:12 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 5, 6:23 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:52:50 -0800 (PST), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Feb 3, 9:54 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:56:24 -0600, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:47:50 -0800, Chris wrote:

The simplest way is MCU with external crystal. For 480 Hz output, the
crystal is likely to be a multiple of 3 MHz. The 12.0 MHz would be the
most common.

Is an MCU the same as a PIC?

All PICs are MCUs.  Not all MCUs are PICs.  The top contenders that I
know of are the PIC and the AVR from Atmel.  There are probably low pin-
count 8051 derivatives out there, not to mention the '430 from TI.

Intersil ought to revive the 1802 core, in a 16-pin package surrounded by
all the usual peripherals.

I would certainly like to see them again, i liked the architecture, though many did not.

If you liked the 1802, I assume you also like wacking your thumb with
a hammer.

If you want a grotesque architecture try the Fairchild 3850 uP.  I guarantee the 1802 is
sweetness and light by comparison.  And my thumbs are all perfectly safe from my several
hammers.

So you say the 1802 is less ugly than its 3 ugly sisters.  Still:

  LD   LOW(ValueA)
  PLO  R3
  LD   HIGH(ValueA)
  PHI  R3
  LD   LOW(ValueB)
  PLO  R4
  LD   HIGH(ValueB)
  PHI  R4
  LD   LOW(ValueC)
  PLO  R5
  LD   HIGH(ValueC)
  PHI  R5
  LDN  R3
  SEX  R4
  ADD
  STN  R5

Thats 16 instructions to do C=A+B where the 3 are all in random
places.
Way back when, the boss designed in the 1802 to save power.  The need
for a lot of instructs meant that we had to put 3 EEPROM chips on it
to hold the code.  It was in a "power up - do it - power off" sort
of application.  I tried to explain at the time that a Z80L would draw
more power while it was on but it would be powered on for so much less
time that it wouldn't matter.  As it was we couldn't keep the display
going while we did RS-232 or anything like that.  It had to a purely
one thing at a time program.

Really.  Abusing the instruction set like that to attempt to make a point?

Can you do the required operation in fewer?

I believe so, but i ain't going to bother.  Besides a quick search
did not yield much accurate information on the instruction set, and
i lost mine many years ago.

One of the guys in this thread sent me an Application Guide:

http://tinyurl.com/yd8yc5h

This is a very interesting read. However, the information here does
not seem to agree with the design suggestion for the crystal network
in the data sheet for the 6040B. Fig. 13 ( http://tinyurl.com/yjyunkr
). Shows that Cxtal=C1+C2+Cstray. If I understand the application
guide 1/Cxtal=1/C1+1/C2.

If my crystal is rated 17pF, then by the
data sheet I need 2 8.5pF caps.

Rs is current limiting. However, I
am using an off the shelf 3932160Hz crystal from Digi-Key, and there
is no indication to what the current limitation (per Rs in Fig. 13)

should be. Also, "Rc" is claimed to be to broaden the freq.
response. However, there is no reference to this in the application
guide.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris Maness
KQ6UP

On Feb 9, 11:16 am, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat
wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:03:30 -0800 (PST), Chris

christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
One of the guys in this thread sent me an Application Guide:

http://tinyurl.com/yd8yc5h

This is a very interesting read.  However, the information here does
not seem to agree with the design suggestion for the crystal network
in the data sheet for the 6040B.  Fig. 13 (http://tinyurl.com/yjyunkr
).  Shows that Cxtal=C1+C2+Cstray.  If I understand the application
guide 1/Cxtal=1/C1+1/C2.  

Yes, but input (and stray capacitance should also be taken into
account).

If my crystal is rated 17pF, then by the
data sheet I need 2 8.5pF caps.

The data sheet is incorrect on this point.

 Rs is current limiting.  However, I
am using an off the shelf 3932160Hz crystal from Digi-Key, and there
is no indication to what the current limitation (per Rs in Fig. 13)

It's limited by the maximum crystal power dissipation and series
resistance of the crystal, crystal frequency, load capacitance, supply
voltage. HC-49 ~4MHz crystals are usually good for 1-2mW, some of the
SMD parts or kHz tuning fork types, down in the microwatts.

should be.  Also, "Rc" is claimed to be to broaden the freq.
response.  However, there is no reference to this in the application
guide.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris Maness
KQ6UP

Given a physically larger crystal that can take 1-2mW of drive, you
can probably forget about Rs, use 22-27pF for the caps and 1M for the
parallel resistor. More caution is called for at high supply voltage.

Should I use 25pF trimmers so that I can dial in the freq.

Thanks,
Chris