XO controlled 480Hz Oscillator

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggherold_at_gmail.com> wrote:


On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea. But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.


AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggherold_at_gmail.com> wrote:


On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea. But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.


AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

AC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate

:)))))

BTW, I actually used that sort of thing for frequency doubling in one
of the projects...


VLV

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

divide it by 8192 you'll get the 480 Hz you want.
The 4060 has an 8192 ouput on Q13.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:29:47 -0800 (PST), the renowned Chris

christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

I'd suggest a PIC12F508 and a standard 3.6864MHz crystal (eg. Citizen
HC49US-3.6864MABJ-UB) which total less than $2 one-off.  

To get exact 50% duty cycle 480Hz square waves you need exactly 960
instruction cycles between toggles during which time you can count
down from 255 a few times, count down from something less than 255
once, and yank the leash of the WDT, and loop back. Easily done
in a handful of lines of assembler.

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:13:12 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky



nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea.  But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.

AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

AC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate

:)))))

BTW,  I actually used that sort of thing for frequency doubling in one
of the projects...

VLV

Yep.  I've done that sort of thing clear up into the GHz range.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|    1962     |

I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Feb 2, 9:46 pm, ehsjr <eh...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
[..3.29136MHz..]

divide it by 8192 you'll get the 480 Hz you want.
The 4060 has an 8192 ouput on Q13.

I suggest the HC4060 not the CD4060.  The HC has a smaller delay so
making a good oscillator a 3.29136MHz is easier with it.

 Follow the app notes

On Feb 3, 7:15 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-
Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:13:12 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky



nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea. But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.

AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

AC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate

:)))))

BTW, I actually used that sort of thing for frequency doubling in one
of the projects...

VLV

Yep. I've done that sort of thing clear up into the GHz range.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


I called a local custom crystal manufacturer -- $18 for a 7864320 Hz
Crystal.

The most straight forward approach looks like the CD4060B.
I found a source $3 for a pack of 25. If you look at Fig. 13 in the
data sheet for the CD4060B, it shows how to hook the crystal up to the
chip. All I need is two caps and two resistors. The crystal
manufacturer said that he would give me the values that I need to
calculate C1 and C2. I am wondering what value I would need for RC.

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold

ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea.  But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.

AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|    1962     |

I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:47:50 -0800, Chris wrote:

The simplest way is MCU with external crystal. For 480 Hz output, the
crystal is likely to be a multiple of 3 MHz. The 12.0 MHz would be the
most common.

Is an MCU the same as a PIC?

All PICs are MCUs. Not all MCUs are PICs. The top contenders that I
know of are the PIC and the AVR from Atmel. There are probably low pin-
count 8051 derivatives out there, not to mention the '430 from TI.

Intersil ought to revive the 1802 core, in a 16-pin package surrounded by
all the usual peripherals.

On Feb 2, 9:58 am, Silvar Beitel <silverbee...@net1plus.com> wrote:
On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

Would a CD4060B + 7.86432 MHz crystal + 1 resistor (maybe 2) + 2 caps
running at 12 volts work for you?  Output (rail-to-rail square wave)
from Q14.

--
Silvar Beitel

That sounds pretty easy divide by 2^14. Would that be a custom
crystal, or a standard freq?

I will be trying to repair a 480Hz standard tuning fork. It is
actually a 960Hz fork that had it's divide by 2 flip flop die. It is
from a 70's vintage piece of equipment. The fork is hermetically
sealed with solder in a can. I try to get in there tonight, and if
the dead part is some obsolete IC or something, I will probably
replace with a crystal and divider to get my 480Hz. A crystal would
be more quiet and stable I believe.

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

Chris wrote:
On Feb 3, 7:15 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-
Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:13:12 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky

nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator?  Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies.  Would a series of dividers be the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea.  But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.

AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

AC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate

:)))))

BTW,  I actually used that sort of thing for frequency doubling in one
of the projects...

VLV

Yep.  I've done that sort of thing clear up into the GHz range.

                                       ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|   1962     |

I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I called a local custom crystal manufacturer -- $18 for a 7864320 Hz
Crystal.  

Or spend 40 cents for the 3.93216MHz crystal the MooseFET
recommended.  In stock at Digikey.  Use Q13 to divide
by 8192.

Ed

The most straight forward approach looks like the CD4060B.
I found a source $3 for a pack of 25.  If you look at Fig. 13 in the
data sheet for the CD4060B, it shows how to hook the crystal up to the
chip.  All I need is two caps and two resistors.  The crystal
manufacturer said that he would give me the values that I need to
calculate C1 and C2.  I am wondering what value I would need for RC.

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:56:24 -0600, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:47:50 -0800, Chris wrote:

The simplest way is MCU with external crystal. For 480 Hz output, the
crystal is likely to be a multiple of 3 MHz. The 12.0 MHz would be the
most common.

Is an MCU the same as a PIC?

All PICs are MCUs.  Not all MCUs are PICs.  The top contenders that I
know of are the PIC and the AVR from Atmel.  There are probably low pin-
count 8051 derivatives out there, not to mention the '430 from TI.

Intersil ought to revive the 1802 core, in a 16-pin package surrounded by
all the usual peripherals.

I would certainly like to see them again, i liked the architecture, though many did not.

Chris wrote:
On Feb 3, 7:15 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-
Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:13:12 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky

nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:37 -0800 (PST), George Herold
ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 2, 11:29 am, Chris <christopher.man...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is the simplest way to get 480Hz from a crystal controlled
oscillator? Looks like most of the pre-packaged XO's and VCXO, seem
to put out much higher frequencies. Would a series of dividers be
the
best way?

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP

OK this is probably a stupid idea. But could you phase lock to the
8th harmonic of the 60Hz line frequency?

George H.

AC Line is sort of sinusoidal, so 8th harmonic content is probably not
all that wonderful, but a PLL with a DIV8 as feedback should work
great... do it all in cheapy CMOS, at low power ;-)

AC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate -> RC -> XOR gate

:)))))

BTW, I actually used that sort of thing for frequency doubling in one
of the projects...

VLV

Yep. I've done that sort of thing clear up into the GHz range.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I called a local custom crystal manufacturer -- $18 for a 7864320 Hz
Crystal.

Or spend 40 cents for the 3.93216MHz crystal the MooseFET
recommended. In stock at Digikey. Use Q13 to divide
by 8192.

Ed

The most straight forward approach looks like the CD4060B.
I found a source $3 for a pack of 25. If you look at Fig. 13 in the
data sheet for the CD4060B, it shows how to hook the crystal up to the
chip. All I need is two caps and two resistors. The crystal
manufacturer said that he would give me the values that I need to
calculate C1 and C2. I am wondering what value I would need for RC.

Thanks,
Chris KQ6UP