Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 5

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:56:12 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07_at_bigfoot.com
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:34:17 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07_at_bigfoot.com
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:16:42 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:12:14 -0800, mike <spamme9_at_gmail.com> wrote:

(snip)

Thin stuff designed to run under a carpet is not advised for inside or
outside use with a dsl modem.

There is however, flat and superflat Cat5/5E cable designed for that
exact purpose.

Did I say thanks? I should have.

So that would have modular ends and plug into my phone company NID
and also into the DSL modem, right, and it would work right there?

Never mind. I see that it would.


I found this cable, although it's CAT6, not CAT5.
This company only has flat in CAT6, no CAT5. Is that okay?

Cat6 is higher spec/speed than 5E, which in turn is higher spec than
Cat5.

http://www.primuscable.com/store/p/1770-CAT6-550MHz-Flat-Ethernet-Patch-Cable-RJ45-CM-PVC-Snagless-45-FT-Black.aspx
CAT6 550MHz Flat Ethernet Patch Cable RJ45 CM PVC Snagless 45 FT Black
$9.68 plus 12 shipping. + almost 22 dollars
T568B (AT&T 258A) Wired
UTP Unshielded Twist Pair
CM Type PVC Jacket
32AWG Flat 4pair Stranded Copper Wire
50 Micron Gold Plated RJ45 Plug
RoHS compliant
The cables are only a slim 1.2mm thick that gives a plenty of
ventilation room for network rack wiring.
This is the longest this store has. I have to see if 45 feet is
enough.


Or
http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/cat-5e-cable/10x6-62250.htm
CAT5E Flat UTP Cable, 32AWG, Black, 50 ft Twisted , stranded,
RoHS Compliant $3.95, how can it be so cheap? Plus 7 dollars
shipping, (since the order is under $50) = 11 dollars, half the
price of the first one, but perhaps too cheap to be worth it?
.......

Try this one: http://www.vpi.us/cable-sf.html (first hit on googling
"superflat cat5"). Up to 50ft Cat5E.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:59:15 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:56:12 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07_at_bigfoot.com
wrote:
(snip)
I found this cable, although it's CAT6, not CAT5.
This company only has flat in CAT6, no CAT5. Is that okay?

Cat6 is higher spec/speed than 5E, which in turn is higher spec than
Cat5.

http://www.primuscable.com/store/p/1770-CAT6-550MHz-Flat-Ethernet-Patch-Cable-RJ45-CM-PVC-Snagless-45-FT-Black.aspx
CAT6 550MHz Flat Ethernet Patch Cable RJ45 CM PVC Snagless 45 FT Black
$9.68 plus 12 shipping. + almost 22 dollars
T568B (AT&T 258A) Wired
UTP Unshielded Twist Pair
CM Type PVC Jacket
32AWG Flat 4pair Stranded Copper Wire
50 Micron Gold Plated RJ45 Plug
RoHS compliant
The cables are only a slim 1.2mm thick that gives a plenty of
ventilation room for network rack wiring.
This is the longest this store has. I have to see if 45 feet is
enough.


Or
http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/cat-5e-cable/10x6-62250.htm
CAT5E Flat UTP Cable, 32AWG, Black, 50 ft Twisted , stranded,
RoHS Compliant $3.95, how can it be so cheap? Plus 7 dollars
shipping, (since the order is under $50) = 11 dollars, half the
price of the first one, but perhaps too cheap to be worth it?
......

Try this one: http://www.vpi.us/cable-sf.html (first hit on googling
"superflat cat5"). Up to 50ft Cat5E.

This one is very good. $17 + shipping. Thanks a lot.

I'm embarrassed to say that I only googled on flat, not superflat. I
guess I thought the same companies would sell both, bu I guess not.

Hmmm. I hate to seem ungrateful but I figure you'll want to know. It
says .08 inches, which is iiuc 2 mm. The one from primuscable is
1.2mm, even though it only calls itself flat.

(The cheapest one, Cablewholesale, has a spec sheet,,
http://www.cablewholesale.com/pdfspecs/10x6-6xxxx.pdf is confusing,
Jacket: Min thickness: 0.45mm Good.
Jacket: Overall diameter: 6.00 +/- 0.20 mm 14 times as much?
Must be the width. 8 times for 8 wires and then 3 spaces in betwen
and 2 on the edges. Yes. So 0.45mm would be very thin too, but this
supplies all the DSL so I think I'll pass on this cheapest one. )

The thinner you try and make the cable the greater the corners you
have to cut. But which of these do you reduce?
The sheath is important where (super)flat cable is to be run under
carpet, as is the conductor and insulation on each wire. No easy
answer.

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 10:07:38 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The thinner you try and make the cable the greater the corners you
have to cut. But which of these do you reduce?
The sheath is important where (super)flat cable is to be run under
carpet, as is the conductor and insulation on each wire. No easy
answer.

Well, super flat uses #28 awg wire. Commodity CAT5 is #24 awg. CAT6
is #23 awg. The #28 awg isn't a problem unless you need to replace
the crimp on connector ends, or you need to run DC power through the
cable.

I've tried using flat (not super-flat) CAT5 under carpets. The stuff
rolls over as the rug moves and eventually creates a lump. Carpet
tape helps, but it still doesn't last. I recently received some flat
cable designed specifically for under the carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/ENG/1499119-Customer_Drawing-RevE.pdf
Note that it's #24 awg wire, which means it uses standard connectors.
I'll be replacing the lumpy CAT5 shortly and expect it to work better.
Note that I have to notch the wings in order to make a turn.

Tyco/Amp's catalog for under carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/UC_Comm_System_Booklet_Rev3.pdf

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 10:07:38 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The thinner you try and make the cable the greater the corners you
have to cut. But which of these do you reduce?
The sheath is important where (super)flat cable is to be run under
carpet, as is the conductor and insulation on each wire. No easy
answer.

Well, super flat uses #28 awg wire. Commodity CAT5 is #24 awg. CAT6
is #23 awg. The #28 awg isn't a problem unless you need to replace
the crimp on connector ends, or you need to run DC power through the
cable.

I've tried using flat (not super-flat) CAT5 under carpets. The stuff
rolls over as the rug moves and eventually creates a lump. Carpet
tape helps, but it still doesn't last.

I recently received some flat
cable designed specifically for under the carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/ENG/1499119-Customer_Drawing-RevE.pdf
Note that it's #24 awg wire, which means it uses standard connectors.
I'll be replacing the lumpy CAT5 shortly and expect it to work better.
Note that I have to notch the wings in order to make a turn.

Tyco/Amp's catalog for under carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/UC_Comm_System_Booklet_Rev3.pdf

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

It's really a pity that I can't find CAT5 with only two pairs of wires
in the cable. It would be about 66% of the diameter of the common
four pair CAT5.

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 10:07:38 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The thinner you try and make the cable the greater the corners you
have to cut. But which of these do you reduce?
The sheath is important where (super)flat cable is to be run under
carpet, as is the conductor and insulation on each wire. No easy
answer.

Well, super flat uses #28 awg wire. Commodity CAT5 is #24 awg. CAT6
is #23 awg. The #28 awg isn't a problem unless you need to replace
the crimp on connector ends, or you need to run DC power through the
cable.

I've tried using flat (not super-flat) CAT5 under carpets. The stuff
rolls over as the rug moves and eventually creates a lump. Carpet

tape helps, but it still doesn't last. I recently received some flat
cable designed specifically for under the carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/ENG/1499119-Customer_Drawing-RevE.pdf
Note that it's #24 awg wire, which means it uses standard connectors.
I'll be replacing the lumpy CAT5 shortly and expect it to work better.
Note that I have to notch the wings in order to make a turn.

Tyco/Amp's catalog for under carpet installs:
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/UC_Comm_System_Booklet_Rev3.pdf

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:38:25 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl_at_cruzio.com
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

It's really a pity that I can't find CAT5 with only two pairs of wires
in the cable. It would be about 66% of the diameter of the common
four pair CAT5.

If the client ever wanted Gigabit Ethernet to that island, they'd be
out of luck.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:52:02 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

The application here was in a residence with solid brick walls, and
the need to get connection to an "island" section of inner wall
without cable running down a wall or around a skirting board, which
the client felt would be unsightly. Client also ruled out wireless.
These rooms were carpeted(*).

Remove the baseboard trim (skirting board??), and mill a grove for the
flat or round wire behind it.

You could also lift the carpet and route a shallow grove into the
plywood subfloor for the flat CAT5 cable. Subfloors are 0.75" to
1.25" thick. 0.100 isn't going to weaken the flooring.

Just to clarify, the building construction is brick on concrete floor
slab. Power to the island section is via conduit through the slab.
You guys obviously use different construction materials/ methods

The option with the least impact was superflat under the carpet's foam
underlay. There had been serious thought to chasing a conduit down
the wall but that would have been both disruptive to the workstation
and $$$. There was but a passing mention of EoP.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:44:54 +0800, who where <noone_at_home.net> wrote:

Just to clarify, the building construction is brick on concrete floor
slab. Power to the island section is via conduit through the slab.
You guys obviously use different construction materials/ methods ;-)

I live in a forest, where houses tend to made from wood. The big tree
roots tend to make houses move around, so concrete slab foundations
are not very popular (except when they can located on a sand pile).

Yeah, notching the concrete floor isn't going to work. Sorry(tm).

The option with the least impact was superflat under the carpet's foam
underlay. There had been serious thought to chasing a conduit down
the wall but that would have been both disruptive to the workstation
and $$$. There was but a passing mention of EoP.

Going through the foam pad under the carpet will work. If thick
enough, you might be able to use real CAT5.

What's EoP? Ethernet over Plumbing?

If you can run fiber optic cable
throught the sewers, you might be able to run fiber through the drains
or water pipes. The fiber is easy, but the fiber to ethernet media
converters are expensive.

If the island has power, you might consider power line networking
(HomePlug).

Another possible is Multimedia over Coax:
http://www.mocalliance.org
Instead of the common RG-6a/u coax cable, use some really thin coax,
such as RG-179b/u coax (0.100" OD). Use MoCA bridges on each side of
the coax run. Or, if you can live with only 10Mbits/sec, use 50 ohm
coax, such as RG-174/u (0.100" OD) and an old 10base2 hub as a media
converter.

Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 50 feet?
Or do I need thicker wire?

The short answer is 'probably'. After all, if you are on an old type of

In message <pos6f7dhcp0i9qfl2l15oejhv6l1ijnh6l_at_4ax.com>, micky
NONONOmisc07_at_bigfoot.com> writes
Will flat, modular, outsde the wall phone wire run DSL for 50 feet?
Or do I need thicker wire?

The short answer is 'probably'. After all, if you are on an old type of
phone system, a twin wire phone line has brought the DSL signal all the
way from the exchange to your house. Another 50 feet isn't really going
to make a lot of difference.