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Who makes RELIABLE modern electrolytic caps?

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Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 am   



Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:45 am   



On 2/11/19 12:32 AM, tubeguy_at_myshop.com wrote:
Quote:
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.


All of the new "small modern" caps will out live you.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:45 am   



On Monday, 11 February 2019 06:32:57 UTC, tub...@myshop.com wrote:

Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).


The main cause of failure for modern caps is that they're run at high ripple current, something that does not happen in valve equipment.

If you want best reliability, get 120C rated caps rather than 85 and look at their mfr rated lifetime expectancy.

If you plan to send it to the moon, for extreme reliability for small values on HT, put plastic film caps inside the old cases, choosing higher v ratings & putting 2 in series. Then vacuum pot them. This is of course not necessary :)


NT

Phil Allison
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:45 am   



On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 5:32:57 PM UTC+11, tub...@myshop.com wrote:
Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).


** You are so full of shit.


Any of these "snap-in" types will replace the high voltage electros in tube amps with advantage. If more then 450V is needed, connect two in series.

https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=MydhXLysIZOl9QOo_r0Q&q=100+uf+450v+snap+in

Out last you for bloody sure.



..... Phil

Look165
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:45 am   



In fact, they are reliable, but due to cost reduction, some plants use
processses which do not respect the dedicated soldering process and
either the component breaks or it's value changes.
Specially decoupling caps. generally the problem is located at the
terminations.

tubeguy_at_myshop.com a écrit le 11/02/2019 à 07:32 :
Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).



pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:45 pm   



On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 1:32:57 AM UTC-5, tub...@myshop.com wrote:
Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).


Mouser.com
DigiKey.com

And any of a dozen other suppliers will be glad to take your money and send you pretty much _exactly_ what you need.

Need multi-section caps? There is AES, Parts Express and half-a-dozen others. There is a company in Germany making Cornell-type cans on OEM equipment, but using modern materials.

And CE Does it right here in the US: https://www.cedist.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand%3DCE%20Manufacturing

Remember, it is ONLY money.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Ralph Mowery
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:45 pm   



In article <9vOdnR5BFY21h_zBnZ2dnUU7-YmdnZ2d_at_giganews.com>,
jdangus_at_att.net says...
Quote:

All of the new "small modern" caps will out live you.




I would not sasy ALL. Remember the computer boards that had capacitors
on them that only lasted about a year ? A friend and I had to send back
several boards to one of the big computer board and part suppliers , but
that was about 20 yars ago.

You may say the quality capacitors will outlive most of us.

Even the big name companies have problems. I have some test get that I
bought surplus when the cell phones went from the 800 Meg to higher
frequencies. The $ 50,000 piece of gear had capacitors go bad in the
switching supplies. That was made around 1995 so they only lasted about
20 years.

I don't know how long they will last, but I just bought a lot of
capacitors from China off ebay. About a dozen of them are in use in my
equipment and have worked for the last 3 months. They may or may not go
out today. I would not put them in equipment that I was repairing for
anyone for money, but this isfor my hobby work.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 2/11/19 9:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Quote:
Remember the computer boards that had capacitors
on them that only lasted about a year ? A friend and I had to send back
several boards to one of the big computer board and part suppliers , but
that was about 20 yars ago.


That wasn't because of modern capacitors.
That was because the bean counters at Dell went with
cheap counterfeit caps that were shit.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Chuck
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:45 pm   



On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:32:54 -0600, tubeguy_at_myshop.com wrote:

Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).

Panasonic and Nichicon.



Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 pm   



On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:32:54 -0600, tubeguy_at_myshop.com wrote:

Quote:
Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).

Yeah, I totally agree with you. The new smaller modern caps just can't
last. A perfect example. My Pioneer SX-434 is only 46 years old and
the shitty small caps in it must be getting ready to fail. Even though
I listen to it every day and though there is no degradation in the
tuning or the sound I just know the caps must be getting ready to
fail. They are just so small.
Eric

Ralph Mowery
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 pm   



In article <uMGdnZXH7K4CBPzBnZ2dnUU7-XOdnZ2d_at_giganews.com>,
jdangus_at_att.net says...
Quote:

On 2/11/19 9:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Remember the computer boards that had capacitors
on them that only lasted about a year ? A friend and I had to send back
several boards to one of the big computer board and part suppliers , but
that was about 20 yars ago.

That wasn't because of modern capacitors.
That was because the bean counters at Dell went with
cheap counterfeit caps that were shit.




The origional post was about which brands were the best.

That is why I said not all modern capacitors would last. I am sure
there are lots of crap China brands of capacitors. I probably bought
some a few months back, but they go in my hobby electronics.

The boards I sent back were not Dell. They were some boards from a
company that sold computer boards and parts that I put together a
computer. The boards were high rated before the capacitor problem. I
think lots of companies had the cpacitor problem from that particular
capacitor company.

One of the main things is that the switching supplies or high
temperature are the main killers of the capacitors.

Any of the good brand capacitors should last longer than most of us will
be around.

KenW
Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 pm   



On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 09:49:49 -0600, Fox's Mercantile <jdangus_at_att.net>
wrote:

Quote:
On 2/11/19 9:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Remember the computer boards that had capacitors
on them that only lasted about a year ? A friend and I had to send back
several boards to one of the big computer board and part suppliers , but
that was about 20 yars ago.

That wasn't because of modern capacitors.
That was because the bean counters at Dell went with
cheap counterfeit caps that were shit.


+1


KenW


Guest

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:45 pm   



On Monday, 11 February 2019 15:43:50 UTC, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Quote:
In article <9vOdnR5BFY21h_zBnZ2dnUU7-YmdnZ2d_at_giganews.com>,
jdangus_at_att.net says...

All of the new "small modern" caps will out live you.




I would not sasy ALL. Remember the computer boards that had capacitors
on them that only lasted about a year ? A friend and I had to send back
several boards to one of the big computer board and part suppliers , but
that was about 20 yars ago.

You may say the quality capacitors will outlive most of us.

Even the big name companies have problems. I have some test get that I
bought surplus when the cell phones went from the 800 Meg to higher
frequencies. The $ 50,000 piece of gear had capacitors go bad in the
switching supplies. That was made around 1995 so they only lasted about
20 years.

I don't know how long they will last, but I just bought a lot of
capacitors from China off ebay. About a dozen of them are in use in my
equipment and have worked for the last 3 months. They may or may not go
out today. I would not put them in equipment that I was repairing for
anyone for money, but this isfor my hobby work.


I don't think you're understanding why they died.


NT

John-Del
Guest

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:45 am   



On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 12:04:17 PM UTC-5, Chuck wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:32:54 -0600, tubeguy_at_myshop.com wrote:

Changing the electrolytic capacitors in vintage tube gear is a must
these days, but no one makes the old style (large size) caps anymore.
I personally do not trust these small modern caps to last very long.
Many computer motherboards have proven how short the life span is on
modern caps, and most of them are low voltage types.

Those old caps have lasted 40, 50 sometimes 60 years. I doubt any modern
caps will last even 10 years. I tend to wonder if that is because of
their small size. Or is it just the construction or materials used?
There are some NOS (new old stock) caps available, but they fail
regardless if they were used or not, since the electrolyte drys out and
moisture may enter them as well.

I dont mind changing caps on vintage gear once, but if I have to change
them every 5 or 10 years, I will not be happy.

But since new caps are no longer made, which are made the same as the
old ones they are replacing, I have little choice but to use these small
modern ones.

That leads to finding brands which are reliable. And I assume price
tells all. Cheap imports are likely the worst, while high priced US made
ones will last longer.

I doubt any modern caps will last even close to the life span of the old
ones, but which brands are the best? (Particularly the ones used for
high voltages in tube gear).

Panasonic and Nichicon.



When I build (or rebuild) something for myself, I always go with Panasonic capacitors.

Ralph Mowery
Guest

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:45 am   



In article <0a7d888b-9f93-401d-abfe-271b8cc6fc34_at_googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr_at_gmail.com says...
Quote:

Even the big name companies have problems. I have some test get that I
bought surplus when the cell phones went from the 800 Meg to higher
frequencies. The $ 50,000 piece of gear had capacitors go bad in the
switching supplies. That was made around 1995 so they only lasted about
20 years.

I don't know how long they will last, but I just bought a lot of
capacitors from China off ebay. About a dozen of them are in use in my
equipment and have worked for the last 3 months. They may or may not go
out today. I would not put them in equipment that I was repairing for
anyone for money, but this isfor my hobby work.

I don't think you're understanding why they died.



I think I have a fair understanding of why capacitors die.

The could be made out of crap materials like the ones on the computer
boards.

The switching power supplies really stress capacitors and they need to
have a low ESR.


Heat will be bad for them. Some are rated around 85 and some are rated
over 100 deg C.

The voltage ratings should be in the correct range. If they sit around
a long time some will need to be reformed to meet the voltage
requirement. Some of the capcitors are formed at a higher voltage than
they are rated for to insure that as they age on the shelf they will
still meet the rated specifications when used year or more later.

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