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William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:45 pm   



Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put in an LED tube.... what's inside? An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my tubes and the two pins at each end are shorted together. The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it expects live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you need anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in? Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it. Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast to be nicer to the LED PSU?

Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:18:54 +1100, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson",
"Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), the pathological
resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:


> A bit of wire between the pins.

Trust that the lonely toothless senile Ozzie troll will be the first to run
along and suck off the filthy Scottish wanker and attention whore again!
<BG>

--
MrTurnip_at_down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1_at_gioia.aioe.org>

Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:42:46 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson",
"Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), the pathological
resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

<FLUSH the abnormal sociopathic attention whore's latest idiotic
attention-baiting bullshit unread again>


--
damduck-egg_at_yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb_at_4ax.com>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme_at_jaka.local>
--

ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38_at_googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397_at_fx10.am4>

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2_at_4ax.com>

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist."
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk_at_4ax.com>

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d_at_giganews.com>

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID: <obru31$nao$3_at_dont-email.me>

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db_at_dell3100.workgroup>

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4_at_Mars>

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF_at_news.eternal-september.org>

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d_at_brightview.co.uk>

--
thekmanrocks_at_gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512_at_news.eternal-september.org>

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID: <orree6$on2$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1_at_gioia.aioe.org>

--
clare_at_snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8_at_4ax.com>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2_at_dont-email.me>

Rod Speed
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm   



William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Quote:
Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?


A bit of wire between the pins.

Quote:
An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.


They don't all do it the same way.

Quote:
The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?


Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

> Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Quote:
Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?


No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the ballast as
well.

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:42:46 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

> Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put in an LED tube.... what's inside? An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my tubes and the two pins at each end are shorted together. The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it expects live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you need anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in? Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it. Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast to be nicer to the LED PSU?

I think I've answered my own question - they're perhaps for those cheap shit single ended LED tubes, which take the power from the two pins at one end, thus requiring the power to go through the starter to run the LEDs. Double ended LED tubes make much more sense, they only draw current through the ballast, and you can just remove the starter, or leave it in wasting power as it'll be on all the time.

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the ballast as
well.


The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to you.

Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:51:53 -0500, Art Todesco, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


Quote:
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!


....and troll-feeding senile idiot no.2 couldn't resist swallowing the
abnormal attention whore's lates idiotic bait, hook, line and sinker again!

Art Todesco
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:45 pm   



On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other.  So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other.  You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense.  The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends.  Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands?  Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.

I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:27:02 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9wxyiwo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

You already said that and still no one cares.


What the fuck are you talking about now?

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:26:21 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9wxxh0o5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

PLease don't respond if you don't know what you're talking about.


Please don't attempt to make fun of me without explaining what you think I said wrong.

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:32:29 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9w9iqio5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.

Do you always answer yourself?


I was adding information to my previous post. Was that too difficult for you?

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!


I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!


I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9wxxh0o5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0


PLease don't respond if you don't know what you're talking about.

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9wxyiwo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0


You already said that and still no one cares.

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