EDAboard.com | EDAboard.de | EDAboard.co.uk | WTWH Media

What is inside an LED "starter"

Ask a question - edaboard.com

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics - What is inside an LED "starter"

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0


In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9w9iqio5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.


Do you always answer yourself?

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:30:44 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.


I think in fact my above circuit should work fine without removing any traditional ballast or starter. The trouble is electronic fittings might try to give a high voltage kick to start the fluorescent tube and damage the LED PSU.

What do the instructions with your LED tube say about disconnecting ballasts and electronic systems and so forth in the fitting?

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9xmexho5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:32:29 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9w9iqio5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.

Do you always answer yourself?

I was adding information to my previous post. Was that too difficult for you?


Well stop acting like an attention whore.

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9xh0doo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:27:02 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9wxyiwo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

You already said that and still no one cares.

What the fuck are you talking about now?


The same response you get...LOL

Snicker
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



In article <op.zt9xhhyqo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...
Quote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:26:21 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9wxxh0o5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

PLease don't respond if you don't know what you're talking about.

Please don't attempt to make fun of me without explaining what you think I said wrong.


Don't cry about it.

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:52:02 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9xmexho5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:32:29 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9w9iqio5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:23:48 -0000, William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

In fact they could just use two bridge rectifiers already in packages, and connect one to one end of the tube and one to the other, with the output of both connected to the PSU bulk capacitor. This would make the circuit I drew above.

Do you always answer yourself?

I was adding information to my previous post. Was that too difficult for you?

Well stop acting like an attention whore.


How on earth is adding something I forgot in the original post seeking attention?

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:51:21 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9xh0doo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:27:02 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9wxyiwo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

You already said that and still no one cares.

What the fuck are you talking about now?

The same response you get...LOL


At least use English.

William Gothberg
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:51:00 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In article <op.zt9xhhyqo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:26:21 -0000, Snicker <snick_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:

In article <op.zt9wxxh0o5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan>, "William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is says...

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:51:53 -0000, Art Todesco <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they
put in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the
ballast to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered
opening the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral
at opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards
incase you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the
casing of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different
voltage on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to
you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and,
when powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There
seems to be no combination that doesn't work!

I can think of a way it might be connected, but please look inside to satisfy our curiosity!

Kinda like a bridge rectifier but with 4 inputs instead of 2 - any pin of the tube being positive goes through a positive diode, any pin being negative goes through a negative diode (as in connected backwards).

You know, a diagram would be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clfblkmb6pyqyl8/tube.jpg?dl=0

PLease don't respond if you don't know what you're talking about.

Please don't attempt to make fun of me without explaining what you think I said wrong.

Don't cry about it.


I wasn't, I was just trying to stop you making a fool of yourself.

Brian Gaff
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:45 pm   



Or put in a dummy to look right but it is in fact just a cover with nothing
inside.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1_at_blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
news:op.zt9qyrdwo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 11:42:46 -0000, William Gothberg <"William
Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote:

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put in
an LED tube.... what's inside? An LED tube draws power from the two
ends, I looked inside one of my tubes and the two pins at each end are
shorted together. The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what
I mean, it expects live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on
earth would you need anything in the starter, even if you left the
ballast in? Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just
remove it. Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of
the ballast to be nicer to the LED PSU?

I think I've answered my own question - they're perhaps for those cheap
shit single ended LED tubes, which take the power from the two pins at one
end, thus requiring the power to go through the starter to run the LEDs.
Double ended LED tubes make much more sense, they only draw current
through the ballast, and you can just remove the starter, or leave it in
wasting power as it'll be on all the time.


Brian Gaff
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:45 pm   



What about the capacitor though. Maybe we could take them out and flog them.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1_at_blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote in message
news:op.zt9rx02jo5piw3_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put
in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast
to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the ballast
as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered opening
the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral at
opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards incase
you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the casing
of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different voltage on
each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to you.


Brian Gaff
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:45 pm   



So would the choke actually reduce any interference generated by the psu in
the tube?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1_at_blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Art Todesco" <actodesco_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pvdeta$ksj$1_at_dont-email.me...
Quote:
On 12/19/2018 7:35 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:18:54 -0000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is> wrote

Those fake starters people put into fluorescent fittings when they put
in
an LED tube.... what's inside?

A bit of wire between the pins.

An LED tube draws power from the two ends, I looked inside one of my
tubes
and the two pins at each end are shorted together.

They don't all do it the same way.

The LED PSU takes power from both ends if you see what I mean, it
expects
live at one end and neutral at the other. So why on earth would you
need
anything in the starter, even if you left the ballast in?

Because the simple bimetallic strip starters have the pins
on the starter connected initially and not connected
when it warms up due to the current between the pins.

Surely it's best to have the starter open circuit, i.e. just remove it.

Some do work like that.

Does it perhaps in some way negate the inductive nature of the ballast
to
be nicer to the LED PSU?

No it does not. So its better, but not as easy, to disconnect the
ballast as
well.

The properly made LED tubes are connected live at one end and neutral at
the other. You just remove the starter, and the LEDs operate in series
with the ballast (or directly to the mains if you can be bothered opening
the casing and shorting/removing the ballast).

So the tubes where they have live and neutral on the same end, require
supplying a fake starter instead of just removing it, surely an
unnecessary extra expense. The only reason I can find for making them
like this is some daft safety regulation about having live and neutral at
opposite ends. Better insulation required to meet safety standards incase
you grab live and neutral with your two hands? Surely either the casing
of the LED tube is metal, which means you can't get a different voltage
on each hand, or plastic, which means it won't conduct power to you.
I just bought some LED 4' tubes that can be wired any way you want. I
don't know the internal circuitry, but I do plan to dissect one to find
out. These can be powered from one end (either one), both ends and, when
powering from both ends, the pins can be shunted or not. There seems to
be no combination that doesn't work!


Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:30:39 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered

Quote:
Or put in a dummy to look right but it is in fact just a cover with nothing
inside.
Brainless


....says the troll-feeding dummy to the trolling dummy! <BG>

Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:35:04 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered

Quote:
So would the choke actually reduce any interference generated by the psu in
the tube?
Brainless


Just watch that you don't choke on the troll's dick that you like to suck so
often, Brainless!

Peeler
Guest

Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:45 pm   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:32:42 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered

Quote:
What about the capacitor though. Maybe we could take them out and flog them.
Brainless


What about your notorious troll-feeding though, Brainless & Daft? Maybe YOU
need to be taken out and flogged!

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics - What is inside an LED "starter"

Ask a question - edaboard.com

Arabic version Bulgarian version Catalan version Czech version Danish version German version Greek version English version Spanish version Finnish version French version Hindi version Croatian version Indonesian version Italian version Hebrew version Japanese version Korean version Lithuanian version Latvian version Dutch version Norwegian version Polish version Portuguese version Romanian version Russian version Slovak version Slovenian version Serbian version Swedish version Tagalog version Ukrainian version Vietnamese version Chinese version Turkish version
EDAboard.com map