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D from BC
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:56 am
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
John Larkin
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:23 am
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
<myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
Quote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
mook johnson
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:29 am
"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.26033f321480b139896e5_at_209.197.12.12...
Quote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Sometimes you need to measure a knats ass.
Jon Slaughter
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:33 am
John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
AZ Nomad
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:38 am
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:29:08 -0600, mook johnson <mook_at_mook.net> wrote:
Quote:
"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.26033f321480b139896e5_at_209.197.12.12...
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
news:MPG.26033f321480b139896e5_at_209.197.12.12...
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Quote:
Sometimes you need to measure a knats ass.
A 2.5 digit meter can measure a knats ass.
A 6.5 digit multimeter would be for measuring the presense of a knats
ass while weighing a whale.
Jon Kirwan
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:49 am
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:33:16 -0600, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
Measurement precision and accuracy aren't the same. You mix
"resolution," "accuracy," and "24-bit" in the same breath.
Jon
D from BC
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:53 am
In article <a69jp59q5nvmomn6rqobm4q4a3m0a4088k_at_4ax.com>,
jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
Quote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
Ah.. the tool that sets the tools.
Of course there's always something better..
8.5 Digit multimeter
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-
536902435.536881781.00&cc=US&lc=eng
D from BC
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:11 am
In article <hnc95i$82b$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
Quote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
It's probably trouble to push the noise floor down with the front end
electronics in the multimeter.
32 ADC
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
Jon Slaughter
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:06 am
Jon Kirwan wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:33:16 -0600, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
Measurement precision and accuracy aren't the same. You mix
"resolution," "accuracy," and "24-bit" in the same breath.
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
Measurement precision and accuracy aren't the same. You mix
"resolution," "accuracy," and "24-bit" in the same breath.
Your a freaken genius!
Jon Slaughter
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:16 am
D from BC wrote:
Quote:
In article <hnc95i$82b$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
It's probably trouble to push the noise floor down with the front end
electronics in the multimeter.
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
It's probably trouble to push the noise floor down with the front end
electronics in the multimeter.
I read that this is not difficult by paralleling ADC's or using averaging.
Since the noise generally is symmetric(generally gaussian) by averaging it
will cancel out.
I guess it is more important that the ADC be stable but as long as any
fluxuations are symmetric(such as clock jitter) then averaging should take
care of most of the problems.
Quote:
32 ADC
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
Yes, but maybe that is due to the scope not using that 32-bit ADC?
John Larkin
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:30 am
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:33:16 -0600, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the cheap and
get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques required to get that
resolution in practice?
Who is "they"?
An ADC needs a voltage reference and, generally, front-end
differential amplifiers, filters, and attenuators. And to be a DVM, it
needs a user interface, a display, and a data interface. Oh, power
supplies too.
If it does AC and ohms, it needs more stuff.
John
Jim Yanik
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:25 am
D from BC <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in
news:MPG.26034c831878edc69896e6_at_209.197.12.12:
Quote:
In article <a69jp59q5nvmomn6rqobm4q4a3m0a4088k_at_4ax.com>,
jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages. And
as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
and they generally have better AC volt accuracies.
Quote:
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
the HP/Agilent 14401A is better. :-)
Quote:
John
Ah.. the tool that sets the tools.
Of course there's always something better..
8.5 Digit multimeter
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-
536902435.536881781.00&cc=US&lc=eng
it's not how many digits in the display,it's how ACCURATE the meter is that
matters.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Dave Platt
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:36 am
In article <MPG.260350d8fa1b2c289896e7_at_209.197.12.12>,
D from BC <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
Quote:
32 ADC
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
*chuckle*
Some years ago, a guy in one of the audio forums suggested that audio
really ought to be recorded and delivered using 32-bit PCM, "just to
make sure."
I pointed out that if one were to set the playback amplitude so that a
least-significant-bit signal produced audio at the listening position
equal in power to the random thermal noise of air molecules hitting
the eardrum, a full-scale 32-bit signal would vaporize the power
lines, explode the building and kill the listener :-)
--
Dave Platt <dplatt_at_radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
D from BC
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:39 am
In article <hncf6d$q8d$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
Quote:
D from BC wrote:
In article <hnc95i$82b$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
It's probably trouble to push the noise floor down with the front end
electronics in the multimeter.
I read that this is not difficult by paralleling ADC's or using averaging.
Since the noise generally is symmetric(generally gaussian) by averaging it
will cancel out.
I guess it is more important that the ADC be stable but as long as any
fluxuations are symmetric(such as clock jitter) then averaging should take
care of most of the problems.
32 ADC
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1282.pdf
$77 at Digikey
I think that's 10 digit. 2^32 = 4294967296
Say full scale is 1V then 1st step is 232picovolts.
uhuh..
I get 1mV fuzz just by shorting out my scope probe!
Yes, but maybe that is due to the scope not using that 32-bit ADC?
True.. My scope has 8 bit voltage resolution.
The point I was trying to get across was if an 8 bit system shows it's
noise floor then it's probably gets increasingly difficult to control
noise as sytem resolution increases(16,24,32).
D from BC
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:42 am
In article <hncf6d$q8d$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
Quote:
D from BC wrote:
In article <hnc95i$82b$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
Jon_Slaughter_at_Hotmail.com says...
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:35 -0800, D from BC
myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote:
6.5 digit multimeters sell around $1000.00.
For electronics development, are these $1000 multimeters really
necessary?
What are they good for?
Measuring to PPM accuracy, and measuring microvolt-level voltages.
And as a traceable standard for calibrating products.
The Fluke 8845A is excellent.
John
What's the big deal? Can't they just switch to 24-bit ADC's on the
cheap and get the accuracy? Or is there some special techniques
required to get that resolution in practice?
It's probably trouble to push the noise floor down with the front end
electronics in the multimeter.
I read that this is not difficult by paralleling ADC's or using averaging.
Since the noise generally is symmetric(generally gaussian) by averaging it
will cancel out.
I guess it is more important that the ADC be stable but as long as any
fluxuations are symmetric(such as clock jitter) then averaging should take
care of most of the problems.
That's seems like the averaging feature on oscilloscopes... Given time,
the signal cleans up nice.
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