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amdx
Guest

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:45 pm   



On 1/14/2020 4:41 PM, default wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:48:06 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!


You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?

Nothing we do has much influence with the Chinese. The Chinese
"problem" is entirely in Trump's addled brain(?).

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.


These are not just Christmas numbers!

No? We'll know soon enough won't we?

This happens every year.

There's another factor at work during the Xmas season. A lot of
people take vacation or days without pay etc., so production dips,
while airlines see a bump in profits. That also reverses right after
Xmas.


Look here at how the unemployment rate has had a steady drop since 2017.
Quote:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx




Quote:

The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.

I'm in the top 3%.


Income or assets?


Quote:

Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.

Yup, adjusted for inflation, wages are up point six percent, while the
consumer price index is up ~2%. wages up but prices are up more


If indeed wages are up point 6 percent 'ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION' then the
2% price index is irrelevant.
But, I admit, that is lower than I expected. I think you should also
add in the decrease in taxes paid as additional income.

Quote:

If you just look at one statistic, things are definitely rosy. In the
real world, there's always more at play than a single statistic.

That's like Dog Turd telling the treasury to "just print more money,"
to reduce the national debt. Something Bozo Boy actually did.

And this anecdote is even more precious:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406085-trumps-plan-to-help-eliminate-federal-debt-was-to-print-money
Gary Cohn, the now-former top economic adviser, told Trump that the
Federal Reserve was likely to increase rates during his first term in
office, in an excerpt first reported by Business Insider.

“We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to
make money,” Trump reportedly said in response.

Cohn was “astounded” by the president’s response, which he reportedly
said illustrated a “lack of basic understanding” about how federal
debt works.
**********
There are children with a better understanding of finance than that.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.

You haven't factored in human greed.


Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.

I'd settle for honesty.

Trump is telling us "We are putting coal miners back to work." The
coal industry hasn't seen any growth in spite of gutting EPA
regulations. International market forces have more sway than domestic
consumption.


Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.

default
Guest

Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:45 pm   



On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:55:45 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 1/14/2020 4:41 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:48:06 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Womens unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureaus Current Population Surveys income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!


You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?

Nothing we do has much influence with the Chinese. The Chinese
"problem" is entirely in Trump's addled brain(?).

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.


These are not just Christmas numbers!

No? We'll know soon enough won't we?

This happens every year.

There's another factor at work during the Xmas season. A lot of
people take vacation or days without pay etc., so production dips,
while airlines see a bump in profits. That also reverses right after
Xmas.

Look here at how the unemployment rate has had a steady drop since 2017.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx

You mean since 2010?


Did you know that most homeless people are working at least one job?
Homelessness is on the rise yet flies under the radar since they are
busy working not standing around to be counted. (which is how HUD
comes up with their numbers - counts people in large cities during the
day, in places where they typically concentrate)

What point are you trying to make? That in spite of "Mexicans
stealing jobs," unemployment is still going down?

Statistics don't often give a clear picture. There are too many
variables involved. They can be manipulated and displayed in ways
that deliberately obfuscate reality.

Take the state-reported jobless statistics. Those are typically
arrived at by seeing who is collecting unemployment not who is willing
and able to work but not working. or working off the books when a job
becomes available.

Quote:



The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.

I'm in the top 3%.

Income or assets?


I'm retired, so my income is low. I'm better off than most, but to be
above the ten percentile doesn't take much these days.


Quote:


Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.

Yup, adjusted for inflation, wages are up point six percent, while the
consumer price index is up ~2%. wages up but prices are up more

If indeed wages are up point 6 percent 'ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION' then the
2% price index is irrelevant.


I'd say it is very relevant to quality of life.

Quote:
But, I admit, that is lower than I expected. I think you should also
add in the decrease in taxes paid as additional income.


If you just look at one statistic, things are definitely rosy. In the
real world, there's always more at play than a single statistic.

That's like Dog Turd telling the treasury to "just print more money,"
to reduce the national debt. Something Bozo Boy actually did.

And this anecdote is even more precious:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406085-trumps-plan-to-help-eliminate-federal-debt-was-to-print-money
Gary Cohn, the now-former top economic adviser, told Trump that the
Federal Reserve was likely to increase rates during his first term in
office, in an excerpt first reported by Business Insider.

We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to
make money, Trump reportedly said in response.

Cohn was astounded by the presidents response, which he reportedly
said illustrated a lack of basic understanding about how federal
debt works.
**********
There are children with a better understanding of finance than that.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.

You haven't factored in human greed.


Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.

I'd settle for honesty.

Trump is telling us "We are putting coal miners back to work." The
coal industry hasn't seen any growth in spite of gutting EPA
regulations. International market forces have more sway than domestic
consumption.

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Fracking is interesting. I can't help but wonder what the hidden
costs are, and on balance, whether it is better than coal? Nothing
trumps renewable energy (though seems to me we should have coal miners
making turbines and solar panels, instead we buy them from China,
Germany, Italy....)

George Herold
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:45 am   



On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.

The 1%'ers are well off too. Corporate taxes were halved.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."


Oh Dear, Look I know this will most likely fall on deaf ears, but
I would like to keep politics out of SEB. I'm no Trump fan, but
when he does something right, I'll give him credit. I find your
words disturbing, the US is a very diverse country. Let's try to
treat everyone with respect. I don't know how else to heal the
vast division in our country.

George H.
Quote:

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1


George Herold
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:45 am   



On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.

I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
> >George H.

default
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:45 pm   



On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:11:54 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Womens unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureaus Current Population Surveys income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.

The 1%'ers are well off too. Corporate taxes were halved.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."

Oh Dear, Look I know this will most likely fall on deaf ears, but
I would like to keep politics out of SEB. I'm no Trump fan, but
when he does something right, I'll give him credit. I find your
words disturbing, the US is a very diverse country. Let's try to
treat everyone with respect. I don't know how else to heal the
vast division in our country.

George H.


If it is disturbing, pretend it doesn't exist.

I don't agree with that. I think we are in our present situation
because people are all too happy to let those least able to govern do
so. People with the integrity to lead well, are not drawn to politics
the way it is practiced. Failure to speak up is tacit acceptance in
my opinion, venue be damned.


I'm sure your news reader allows you to killfile authors you find
disturbing.

Quote:

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1


default
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:45 pm   



On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.


I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm

Steve Wolf
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:45 pm   



I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.

George Herold
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm   



On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 8:08:48 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.

I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm


Yeah I found out about it in one of Jim William's articles.
fun stuff.
George H.

George Herold
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:45 pm   



On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:01:39 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
Quote:
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.


Yup... I guess it was really my fault. (I gave DT the +1 for
reversing the ban on incandescents.)
George H.

Michael Terrell
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:45 pm   



On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 8:08:48 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.

I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm


The TS-382 series were military versions in transit cases. They had a vibration reed frequency meter to display 60 Hz and 400Hz. The insides were protected for Jungle use, and the one I have, (TS-382/F)has heat strips to drive moisture out of the cabinet.

Michael Terrell
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:45 pm   



On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
Quote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.

default
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:45 pm   



On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:37:25 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.


I don't know if it is necessary to make steel. I remember a
documentary about steel recycling where they were using carbon arc
furnaces to melt and make steel from ferrous waste.

They mentioned that they had a relatively small window where they
could source cheap off-peak electricity from the grid, but the energy
to melt it was electrical. (except for the graphite electrodes)

Of course that may just be some small mill turning out ingots of
"boutique" (special purpose) steel.

One other interesting aspect is that they'd take samples of the steel
to a lab then send a list of additives to the floor to be added to the
molten metal. Some of the chemicals were thrown in by the bag-full,
bag and all.

default
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:45 pm   



On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 06:01:34 -0800 (PST), Steve Wolf
<stevwolf58_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.


I can agree, to a point. The NGs that cater to the
ideologically-driven are clogged up with people who are incapable of
rational thought and take their marching orders from a "personality"
without analyzing what is said as long as it makes them feel secure or
self-righteous. They'd rather buy into a load of bullshit than leave
the herd/cult/society/gang/religion etc. they feel comfortable in.

At least in a science or engineering group there are people who still
know how to think for themselves.

AND having worked in science, industry, and the military all my life I
have to question my choices. As engineers we are geared towards
finding ways to achieve what our corporate sponsors want, but don't we
also have a responsibility to humanity?

What are principles worth, if you can find them easy to ignore? Who
are you? (not "you" personally...)

default
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:45 pm   



On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 07:23:06 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold_at_teachspin.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:01:39 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.

Yup... I guess it was really my fault. (I gave DT the +1 for
reversing the ban on incandescents.)
George H.

Don't beat yourself up over it.


You know that "stock footage" where they show the optically guided
bomb hitting a concrete block building? I probably had my hands in
that, so my perspective is different.

Michael Terrell
Guest

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:45 am   



On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:37:25 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.

I don't know if it is necessary to make steel. I remember a
documentary about steel recycling where they were using carbon arc
furnaces to melt and make steel from ferrous waste.


Do you have any idea how much more is needed every year? Remelt couldn't begin to supply enough.

Would you trust a bridge bout of cheap remelt? Do you remember the crap Japanese steel in the '60s? It was all remelt. How about Rebar? It is so low grade that they don't specify what they remelt. It is old wire, scrap iron and old machine tools. Things that they won't use, anywhere else. I've seen imported steel that had large, used ball bearings embedded in the sheet. Try working with that!


Quote:
They mentioned that they had a relatively small window where they
could source cheap off-peak electricity from the grid, but the energy
to melt it was electrical. (except for the graphite electrodes)

Of course that may just be some small mill turning out ingots of
"boutique" (special purpose) steel.


I'm not talking a small operation. It runs full tilt, 24/7. I'll bet the motors on the hot strip, and at the cranes use more electricity than one of those remelt companies. In fact, there is a peak shaving power plant that can power the entire mill, during major outages. It uses three large GE Jet engines. It can feed the grid for peak shaving, or feed only the mill while an entire town is dark.

Quote:
One other interesting aspect is that they'd take samples of the steel
to a lab then send a list of additives to the floor to be added to the
molten metal. Some of the chemicals were thrown in by the bag-full,
bag and all.


What's so interesting? A friend of mine retired from that company as an Analytic Chemist who ran test on samples from every run This company developed Aluminized Stainless for Catalytic Converters. They made the special steel used by Aeronca Aerospace for the honeycomb steel heat shields for the early Space Program. They manufacture steel for cars and appliances, along with their prefab steel buildings. All different grades, thicknesses and processes.

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