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Fred Abse
Guest
Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:27 pm
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:30:29 GMT, N0Spam_at_daqarta.com (Bob Masta) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:24:45 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa__at_charter.net> wrote:
well maybe the E-Brake which should be a cable driven device via the
operator should have a kill switch in it..! It solves 2 problems.
Driving with the brake on and being able to kill it incase of runaway..
Can't the user just shut off the ignition key? Or is that interlocked
"as a safety feature" when the car is moving? Or when in Drive, which
might be interlocked for some reason?
Yes, it's interlocked. ...to the steering wheel - bad plan.
...
My Jeep has the key interlocked to the shifter. You can't remove it,
except in Park.
The steering lock only engages when the key is *physically* removed.
Hence you can't put the steering lock on with the vehicle moving.
--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:37 pm
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:27:39 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:30:29 GMT, N0Spam_at_daqarta.com (Bob Masta) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:24:45 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa__at_charter.net> wrote:
well maybe the E-Brake which should be a cable driven device via the
operator should have a kill switch in it..! It solves 2 problems.
Driving with the brake on and being able to kill it incase of runaway..
Can't the user just shut off the ignition key? Or is that interlocked
"as a safety feature" when the car is moving? Or when in Drive, which
might be interlocked for some reason?
Yes, it's interlocked. ...to the steering wheel - bad plan.
...
My Jeep has the key interlocked to the shifter. You can't remove it,
except in Park.
The steering lock only engages when the key is *physically* removed.
Hence you can't put the steering lock on with the vehicle moving.
You certainly can (switch the car off and lock the steering column) with every
car I've owned in the past 20 years. As I said, bad plan!
Jon
Guest
Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:28 pm
"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa__at_charter.net> wrote in message
news:lF5nn.10454$ao7.5744_at_newsfe21.iad...
Quote:
That was fun then, you do that for a short time and turn
the ignition back on! POW!
:)
Ha! The resonator on my mom's caddy exploded on startup once.
Quite a surprise to say the least.
---
news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news_at_netfront.net ---
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:43 am
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:25:35 -0600, "BillyGates" <Bill.Gates_at_Microsoft.com
wrote:
Bob Eld wrote:
"Bret Cahill" <Bret_E_Cahill_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3fd7078-e8b8-4f1f-b7ff-d7da0a141a31_at_k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
A few years ago I was looking at a minivan with defective ABS and I
turned to an astute ex used car dealer and said incredulously,
"there's no way a big auto company would design a car without any
back up brake system . . ."
The astute ex used car dealer didn't say a word.
Bret Cahill
To me it has the ear marks of a in fuel-accelerator computer system
problem. It's as though the processor goes into la-la land for no
apparent reason into a full, max on failure mode. When the techs look
at it, they can't replicate the problem. The processor never does it
again, at least while anyone is looking. We've never seen software do
that have we? No!
Someone forgot to check for an overflow error... common engineering mistake
by those engineers who think they are the shit. Who cares if it costs a life
or two?
Hell no. Engineers design saturating logic so overflows *cannot* happen.
Programmers, on the other hand...
Are named Maynard...
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Jamie
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:32 am
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Quote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:25:35 -0600, "BillyGates" <Bill.Gates_at_Microsoft.com
wrote:
Bob Eld wrote:
"Bret Cahill" <Bret_E_Cahill_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3fd7078-e8b8-4f1f-b7ff-d7da0a141a31_at_k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
A few years ago I was looking at a minivan with defective ABS and I
turned to an astute ex used car dealer and said incredulously,
"there's no way a big auto company would design a car without any
back up brake system . . ."
The astute ex used car dealer didn't say a word.
Bret Cahill
To me it has the ear marks of a in fuel-accelerator computer system
problem. It's as though the processor goes into la-la land for no
apparent reason into a full, max on failure mode. When the techs look
at it, they can't replicate the problem. The processor never does it
again, at least while anyone is looking. We've never seen software do
that have we? No!
Someone forgot to check for an overflow error... common engineering mistake
by those engineers who think they are the shit. Who cares if it costs a life
or two?
Hell no. Engineers design saturating logic so overflows *cannot* happen.
Programmers, on the other hand...
Are named Maynard...
Excuse me pecker head?
yes, that is what I called you. The name is fitting. Exactly!.
Go back in that corner and beat your head against the wall, you
haven't yet got it straighten out..
Look, I don't want to get in a battle of wits with you, I don't like
fighting with an unarmed man!
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:32 am
Jamie wrote:
Quote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:25:35 -0600, "BillyGates" <Bill.Gates_at_Microsoft.com
wrote:
Bob Eld wrote:
"Bret Cahill" <Bret_E_Cahill_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3fd7078-e8b8-4f1f-b7ff-d7da0a141a31_at_k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
A few years ago I was looking at a minivan with defective ABS and I
turned to an astute ex used car dealer and said incredulously,
"there's no way a big auto company would design a car without any
back up brake system . . ."
The astute ex used car dealer didn't say a word.
Bret Cahill
To me it has the ear marks of a in fuel-accelerator computer system
problem. It's as though the processor goes into la-la land for no
apparent reason into a full, max on failure mode. When the techs look
at it, they can't replicate the problem. The processor never does it
again, at least while anyone is looking. We've never seen software do
that have we? No!
Someone forgot to check for an overflow error... common engineering mistake
by those engineers who think they are the shit. Who cares if it costs a life
or two?
Hell no. Engineers design saturating logic so overflows *cannot* happen.
Programmers, on the other hand...
Are named Maynard...
Excuse me pecker head?
yes, that is what I called you. The name is fitting. Exactly!.
Go back in that corner and beat your head against the wall, you
haven't yet got it straighten out..
Look, I don't want to get in a battle of wits with you, I don't like
fighting with an unarmed man!
Then quit abusing yourself.
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Fred Abse
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:53 pm
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:38 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:27:39 -0700, Fred Abse
excretatauris_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:30:29 GMT, N0Spam_at_daqarta.com (Bob Masta) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:24:45 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa__at_charter.net> wrote:
well maybe the E-Brake which should be a cable driven device via the
operator should have a kill switch in it..! It solves 2 problems.
Driving with the brake on and being able to kill it incase of
runaway..
Can't the user just shut off the ignition key? Or is that interlocked
"as a safety feature" when the car is moving? Or when in Drive, which
might be interlocked for some reason?
Yes, it's interlocked. ...to the steering wheel - bad plan.
...
My Jeep has the key interlocked to the shifter. You can't remove it,
except in Park.
The steering lock only engages when the key is *physically* removed.
Hence you can't put the steering lock on with the vehicle moving.
You certainly can (switch the car off and lock the steering column) with
every car I've owned in the past 20 years. As I said, bad plan!
Bad plan indeed.
An interesting thought has emerged. The Jeep has provision for flat
("recreational") towing (say on an A-frame), with the transfer case in
neutral. The manual says the transmission should be in
Park when doing this. I don't know whether the key needs to be in, or
whether the (electric) steering lock comes off automatically. I don't have
an RV, so I never needed to try it. I shall have to find out.
I hate being stuck behind some monster RV with an SUV in tow!
--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:01 am
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:53:05 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:38 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:27:39 -0700, Fred Abse
excretatauris_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500, krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:30:29 GMT, N0Spam_at_daqarta.com (Bob Masta) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:24:45 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa__at_charter.net> wrote:
well maybe the E-Brake which should be a cable driven device via the
operator should have a kill switch in it..! It solves 2 problems.
Driving with the brake on and being able to kill it incase of
runaway..
Can't the user just shut off the ignition key? Or is that interlocked
"as a safety feature" when the car is moving? Or when in Drive, which
might be interlocked for some reason?
Yes, it's interlocked. ...to the steering wheel - bad plan.
...
My Jeep has the key interlocked to the shifter. You can't remove it,
except in Park.
The steering lock only engages when the key is *physically* removed.
Hence you can't put the steering lock on with the vehicle moving.
You certainly can (switch the car off and lock the steering column) with
every car I've owned in the past 20 years. As I said, bad plan!
Bad plan indeed.
An interesting thought has emerged. The Jeep has provision for flat
("recreational") towing (say on an A-frame), with the transfer case in
neutral. The manual says the transmission should be in
Park when doing this. I don't know whether the key needs to be in, or
whether the (electric) steering lock comes off automatically. I don't have
an RV, so I never needed to try it. I shall have to find out.
Don't know about Jeep but a friend has a Saturn that he tows behind his land
yacht, "four down". IIRC he has to leave the key in the ignition to unlock
the column. There may be a position where he can remove it, don't remember.
Quote:
I hate being stuck behind some monster RV with an SUV in tow!
No worse than an 18-wheeler.
Bret Cahill
Guest
Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:32 am
Quote:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/runaway-prius-mystery-1...
CHP is now claiming it was an honest mistake.
I don't really give a rat's behind if I get killed by a motorist
making an "honest mistake" or a vicious murderer trying to kill me.
I just don't want it to happen.
The price of these "honest mistakes" has been and should be stiff
fines.
Bret Cahill
Guest
Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:16 am
On Mar 13, 3:11 am, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-03-11, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
To me it has the ear marks of a in fuel-accelerator computer system problem.
It's as though the processor goes into la-la land for no apparent reason
into a full, max on failure mode. When the techs look at it, they can't
replicate the problem. The processor never does it again, at least while
anyone is looking. We've never seen software do that have we? No!
But the real problem is Toyota's secrecy, not allowing any third party to
examine their documentation even to the point of defying court orders. They
have blown smoke up each other's butts with attempted fixes, floor mats and
accelerator mechanical fixes but likely to no avail. Failures keep coming
and Toyota believes their own propaganda. It's time for an independent,
third party look into the problems including Toyota's engineering and
documentation without a connection to Toyota but with full openness on their
part. Otherwise, maybe we should forbid them from selling in the US until
they are more open.
The San Diego Prius should be impounded by the TSA and examined by them just
as an airplane would be.
It's hard to believe that a brake system designed to take the car from
60 - 0 in 3 seconds cannot prevail against a drive train that can only
put out a fourth that much power.
with the throttle wide open the manifold vacuum is not there
so there's no power assist on the brakes.
if the driver is somewhat feeble it's conceivable that they will not be
able to stop the car using the brakes.
---
news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---
Really need to read up on how the Prius works. The power brakes have
an electric vacuum pump. The power steering is electric. The heater
has electric assist. The transmission has no neutral or reverse gears,
just one planetary gear set with the engine/starter/generator on the
sun gear, the wheels driven from the planet carrier and a 16 kW
electric motor/generator on the ring gear. You have no mechanical
connection to the throttle or the 'transmission'. If the Prius gas
engine is running while at a light (only while warming up), the ring
gear motor is turning backwards so that the wheels don't turn. To go
'reverse', the ring motor turns backwards and then even faster
backwards if the gas engine starts. You are totally at the mercy of
the computer that ties it all together. The 'ABS' does not 'pump' the
brakes at any rate.They simply turn the brakes off for a half second
and flash a light on the das that SHOULD say 'good luck'. If a wheel
slips while accelerating (very easy to do in the rain especially if
turning), the power is turned off for a half second. Both of these
things are VERY disconcerting the first time it happens.
My little kids know what to do when a computer screws up. You turn it
off and restart it. IF there is a bug in the Prius computer, how does
testing it later tell you anything? It recorded what happened? But if
the computer is misbehaving, is it recording what's happening?
Bottom line, most of what you know about how a car works does not
apply to the Toyota hybrid system.
G²
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