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Very few solar panels on new houses

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micky
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:45 am   



In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 06 Jun 2019 19:53:04 -0400, micky
<NONONOmisc07_at_bigfoot.com> wrote:

Quote:
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:45:45 +0100, "Commander
Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:25:56 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet_at_andyburns.uk> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I noticed some new houses being built, all with environmental shit, like
solar panels, water reclamation from gutters etc. But why do they have
only 3 or 4 panels when the roof could hold about 12?

Very little incentive to have any at all now that the feed-in/bribery
tariff has ended.

That's what I would have thought, but these houses are only a couple of years old. None I could understand, loads I could understand, but not a few on each roof.

I would wait until I saw someone working in the yard, and I'd ask him.

If I never saw anyone, I'd ring the doorbell and ask.

If you do these things nicely, people are happy to talk.


I read the thread and it's all speculation. Right off the bat, I can
think of two times I stopped to ask a homeowner a question.

One time it was an old house on what's left of the old road from
Baltimore to Harrisburg**. He talked for 5 minutes and then invited me
to come back and he'd show me the inside of the house.

**It's not labeled like that. You have to figure it out.


Another time I was interested in the coal-miner strike in Harlan Co.
Kentucky, and I picked a guy at random in a pretty suburban n'hood, the
first guy I picked, and his father was one of the strikers and he
remembered a lot of details. He talked to me for about 20 minutes.


Smile, introduce yourself, make it clear you're just curious (not a tax
assessor, bill collector, politician, or whoever get's the bum's rush in
Scotland.)

Bob F
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:44 am   



On 6/6/2019 4:06 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Quote:


"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z2zib9yqwdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 23:11:50 +0100, Rod Speed
rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:



"trader_4" <trader4_at_optonline.net> wrote in message
news:943fe1dc-72cb-4890-b684-b3aab20b0f99_at_googlegroups.com...
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 5:45:33 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:25:56 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet_at_andyburns.uk
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I noticed some new houses being built, all with environmental shit,
like
solar panels, water reclamation from gutters etc. But why do they
have
only 3 or 4 panels when the roof could hold about 12?

Very little incentive to have any at all now that the
feed-in/bribery
tariff has ended.

That's what I would have thought, but these houses are only a
couple of
years old. None I could understand, loads I could understand, but
not a
few on each roof.

One factor could be that the output per panel has gone up over
time. They were ~200W a decade ago, new ones are ~300W. But still
3 or 4 would be only 1200W, not even enough to equal what a typical
house
uses. And you'd think that some of the cost is fixed, ie putting in
12 isn't going to cost 3 times what it costs to put in 4, so if it's
undersized, the economics is worse.

And he's in scotland which isnt great for solar insulation in winter
or even in summer.

WTF is solar insulation?

The amount of sun falling on the panels.


Nope. That's insolation.

Bob F
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:45 am   



On 6/6/2019 4:09 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Quote:


"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z2zie8cgwdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 23:12:31 +0100, trader_4 <trader4_at_optonline.net
wrote:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 6:04:40 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:59:47 +0100, trader_4 <trader4_at_optonline.net
wrote:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 5:45:33 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:25:56 +0100, Andy Burns
usenet_at_andyburns.uk> >> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I noticed some new houses being built, all with environmental
shit, like
solar panels, water reclamation from gutters etc. But why do
they >> >> have
only 3 or 4 panels when the roof could hold about 12?

Very little incentive to have any at all now that the
feed-in/bribery
tariff has ended.

That's what I would have thought, but these houses are only a
couple >> of years old. None I could understand, loads I could
understand, but >> not a few on each roof.

One factor could be that the output per panel has gone up over
time. They were ~200W a decade ago, new ones are ~300W. But still
3 or 4 would be only 1200W, not even enough to equal what a
typical > house
uses. And you'd think that some of the cost is fixed, ie putting in
12 isn't going to cost 3 times what it costs to put in 4, so if it's
undersized, the economics is worse.

Agreed - you might aswell make as much use of the roof space as you
can. And so what if you generate more than the house uses? There
are houses that don't generate anything. And once we all use
electric cars, we'll need a hell of a lot more.

I think in the above you're assuming that you get paid a decent rate on
the excess, which may not be true. You may only get wholesale rate,
which makes it economically unviable.

Surely you'll make at least roughly what you save by making your own
for what you use?

Nope, the electricity supplier doesn't pay you anything
like what you pay them for the electricity.

It also seems damn stupid to build an estate of 50 houses and put
1.2kW on each roof, instead of 2.4kW on half the roofs, with a much
lower installation cost.

And do what with the owners? One owner produces the power, is subject
to the costs and benefits, the other is just another power system
customer.

Different people might want it or not.

But the owner of the house with the panels on it may
well not be able to afford the double panel installation.

They do have large solar arrays that are on businesses
or just on acres of land, generating power for the grid.

Yes I know someone who did that on his farm, filling an entire field,
but it was only economically viable because of a subsidy.




You know this for every supplier in the world?

Bob F
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:45 am   



On 6/6/2019 3:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Quote:


"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z2zgydx2wdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:59:47 +0100, trader_4 <trader4_at_optonline.net
wrote:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 5:45:33 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:25:56 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet_at_andyburns.uk
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I noticed some new houses being built, all with environmental
shit, >> like
solar panels, water reclamation from gutters etc.  But why do
they >> have
only 3 or 4 panels when the roof could hold about 12?

Very little incentive to have any at all now that the feed-in/bribery
tariff has ended.

That's what I would have thought, but these houses are only a couple
of years old.  None I could understand, loads I could understand,
but not a few on each roof.

One factor could be that the output per panel has gone up over
time.  They were ~200W a decade ago, new ones are ~300W.  But still
3 or 4 would be only 1200W, not even enough to equal what a typical
house
uses.   And you'd think that some of the cost is fixed, ie putting in
12 isn't going to cost 3 times what it costs to put in 4, so if it's
undersized, the economics is worse.

Agreed - you might aswell make as much use of the roof space as you can.

Problem is the cost of that.

And so what if you generate more than the house uses?

You've obviously wasted your money.

There are houses that don't generate anything.  And once we all use
electric cars, we'll need a hell of a lot more.

But it makes a lot more sense to use nukes for that.

It also seems damn stupid to build an estate of 50 houses and put
1.2kW on each roof, instead of 2.4kW on half the roofs, with a much
lower installation cost.

But that approach isnt viable. No one is going to
pay for the cost of doing it on someone else's roof.


Tell that to the companies that do exactly that.

"free solar panels

If you’ve been shopping around for a solar panel system, you’ve probably
heard at least one company advertise ‘free solar panels’ – that they
will install a solar energy system on your roof for free. But, much as
with anything, remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch (or
a free solar panel).

Free solar panels pure energies

Examples of companies advertising ‘free solar panels’

Decoding the sales pitch: The term ‘free solar panels’ is sometimes used
to advertise solar lease or solar power purchase agreements (PPAs).

Under both types of arrangements, a company will put solar panels on
your roof for no money up-front, but will charge you for the electricity
that they produce.

Most offers will save you money but not all of them, so make sure you’ve
thoroughly compared all your options. Also consider buying the solar
panels or financing them with a zero-down solar loan.

free solar panels
What do companies mean when they say free solar panels?

So what do a company’s marketers and salespeople mean when they say
‘free solar panels’? Usually, they are referring to solar leases and
power purchase agreements (PPA’s). Under these solar financing
arrangements, a solar company will put a solar system on your roof at no
up-front cost to you. This sounds great – you get to say that your home
is powered by clean energy, and can even point to the solar panels on
your roof to prove it.

But the reality is that you do not technically own the system, and the
solar energy the panels produce is not free. Under solar lease
agreements, ownership is retained by the solar company, and you pay for
the electricity it produces. In essence, the company has built a small
power plant on your roof and is selling you the electricity."

Rod Speed
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:45 am   



"Bob F" <bobnospam_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qdcjrs$ini$1_at_dont-email.me...
Quote:
On 6/6/2019 3:57 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z2zgydx2wdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:59:47 +0100, trader_4 <trader4_at_optonline.net
wrote:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 5:45:33 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:25:56 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet_at_andyburns.uk
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

I noticed some new houses being built, all with environmental
shit, >> like
solar panels, water reclamation from gutters etc. But why do
they >> have
only 3 or 4 panels when the roof could hold about 12?

Very little incentive to have any at all now that the
feed-in/bribery
tariff has ended.

That's what I would have thought, but these houses are only a couple
of years old. None I could understand, loads I could understand, but
not a few on each roof.

One factor could be that the output per panel has gone up over
time. They were ~200W a decade ago, new ones are ~300W. But still
3 or 4 would be only 1200W, not even enough to equal what a typical
house
uses. And you'd think that some of the cost is fixed, ie putting in
12 isn't going to cost 3 times what it costs to put in 4, so if it's
undersized, the economics is worse.

Agreed - you might aswell make as much use of the roof space as you can.

Problem is the cost of that.

And so what if you generate more than the house uses?

You've obviously wasted your money.

There are houses that don't generate anything. And once we all use
electric cars, we'll need a hell of a lot more.

But it makes a lot more sense to use nukes for that.

It also seems damn stupid to build an estate of 50 houses and put 1.2kW
on each roof, instead of 2.4kW on half the roofs, with a much lower
installation cost.

But that approach isnt viable. No one is going to
pay for the cost of doing it on someone else's roof.

Tell that to the companies that do exactly that.


That’s not one house owner paying for the panels on a neighbours house.

F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 08:52, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 08:01:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 09:22, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:09:24 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 09:23, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 08:57:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Problem is the cost of that.

flush


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 09:59, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:43:57 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Yep, some are that stupid

flush


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 07:48, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 06 Jun 2019 21:35:36 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

FLUSH


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 09:24, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:06:36 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 08:51, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 08:03:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Likely because it can still be worth doing without the bribe

Flush


F Murtz
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 am   



On 07/06/19 09:18, Peeler wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:03:59 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH


Peeler
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:45 am   



On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:04:08 +1000, F Murtz, the notorious troll-lover from
Oz, made an ass of himself again:

Quote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 09:06:36 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH


Oh, look! The KNOWN twisted troll-lover from Oz tries to stand up for his
beloved trolls again ...by making an ass of himself, again! LMAO

Peeler
Guest

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:45 am   



On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 14:02:53 +1000, F Murtz, the notorious troll-lover from
Oz, made an ass of himself again:

Quote:
Yep, some are that stupid

flush


Oh, look! The KNOWN twisted troll-lover from Oz tries to stand up for his
beloved trolls again ...by making an ass of himself, as usual! LMAO

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