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Verizon Telephone Ringer ISSUE (land line)

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Guest

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:06 pm   



Hi,

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when
someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore
removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time
to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use
from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due
other devices loading.

At main input jack, everything disconnected (no loads), ringing voltage
was 93 VAC.

I am retired electronic technician. I used my Fluke DMM with "Max/Min"
capture feature to log the ringing voltages. Twice, I was able to "capture"
the NO RINGING voltages, 34.4VAC and 38VAC.

TEMP SOLUTION:

Since my answer machine is on all the time, and answers on the
4th ring, I told my relatives & friends to hang up if phone rings 5 or more
times. Then call again. The odd thing (good thing), when they call back,
the phone(s) ring!! So far, every time.

Did anyone else have this issue?

Thank You in advance, John

KenW
Guest

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm   



On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:06:14 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Quote:
Hi,

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when
someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore
removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time
to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use
from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due
other devices loading.

At main input jack, everything disconnected (no loads), ringing voltage
was 93 VAC.

I am retired electronic technician. I used my Fluke DMM with "Max/Min"
capture feature to log the ringing voltages. Twice, I was able to "capture"
the NO RINGING voltages, 34.4VAC and 38VAC.

TEMP SOLUTION:

Since my answer machine is on all the time, and answers on the
4th ring, I told my relatives & friends to hang up if phone rings 5 or more
times. Then call again. The odd thing (good thing), when they call back,
the phone(s) ring!! So far, every time.

Did anyone else have this issue?

Thank You in advance, John

Been retired after 47 years in the business, but the ring voltage
sounds borderline since the max is 105 v. However with the "tweaty
birds" in use today don't require anything near that high. There is
another number that is very important. The Ringer Equivalence Number
must not ex ceded. The REN is usually printed on the unit providing
the ring voltage. Finding it on the ringer is a different thing all
together. One thing you never want to do is have an oldfashon
mechanical ringer these days.

Of course the unit putting out the ring voltage could be a problem
under load.

I would look at the ringer in each phone to see what it is and maybe
the REN is printed somewhere.

When I started ring voltage came from the central office for any
switchboards (Cord) that may be in the building. It was really "HOT"
found out by standing on damp soil !!

Good luck, I always hated "stupid" problems.


KenW

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:51 pm   



On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

> Did anyone else have this issue?

Had the same issue - poor connections in the Telco Demark. The 'first' attempt apparently helped the connections such that it rang through if the call-back was relatively immediate.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:13 pm   



Quote:
On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

Did anyone else have this issue?

Had the same issue - poor connections in the Telco Demark. The 'first' attempt apparently helped the connections such that it rang through if the call-back was relatively immediate.

Peter Wieck


Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

Thank You in advance, John

abrsvc
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:30 pm   



I would not be surprised to find out that the problem is external to the house. The copper line system is aging and receives minimal maintenance these days. I too had intermittent issues with my landline prior to getting FIOS. While not as regular as you, the problem ended up being a connection on the street a few blocks away. Similar problems prior were traced to the local "switching" station a few towns over.

Dan

KenW
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:07 pm   



Quote:
Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

Thank You in advance, John

Yes it could be.



KenW

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:27 pm   



On 1/11/20 6:13 AM, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:
Quote:
Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL
filters might cause this problem?


<http://www.benjammin.net/www/pages/techtips/dsl-filter.html>


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Ron D.
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:12 pm   



I'll give you some ideas. When/if the telco guy comes out have him fit a DSL filter in the NID. Have everything else ready and be prepared to help. I should be able to supply CAT5 from the NID to the inside of the house,

You have "two lines" at this point. Filtered and unfiltered or split.

With the filters/spliters removed and the modem OFF, you have a normal telephone line. If you turn on the modem (no filters) and pickup an extension, you;ll hear HF noise.

I think it's an important concept.

Hum, it's likely the "protector. In the NID or the old carbon one.

Spiders, wet and poor connections.

Pull the DMARC and look at the resistance into the house. It needs to be high

If it;s not high (like 1M or greater), It's probably a jack and not a phone. Inspect any low lying jacks for spider webs especially ones that can get wet.

he will measure the resistance of the phones in the house and will easily say it;s your problem. Finding it - use your best guess.

Cob webs on the pole is possible too. The ring voltage tends to break through the oxides.

DSL upgrade. Have a splitter installed by the telco. use the highest pair (Pair 4) (8 cond)for DSL. Being all 8 into a parallel punch down block (assuming no alarm RJ31x). Break out to telco and DSL.

Punch down telo and punch down to a RJ11 jack to DSL.

You can buy a CAT 5 straight RJ11-RJ11 to your DSL modem. The modem doesn;t care if the polarity is reversed.

I have a mix of quad cable, no-home run and about 12 phones. No issues. The quad non-home-run was installed by the phone company.

The final plan is aN rj45 phone patch where everything is parallel (a RED PANEl)

Ron D.
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:28 pm   



at roughly the same place. All future telco connections will be RJ45's with inserts that will be RJ11's.

The patch panel has to use straight thru cables, I could patch with RH11's or RJ45'swith inserts.

Re-iterating all wall outlets will be RJ45 with or without RJ1l inserts CAT6.
telco patch will be RJ45 jacks. RJ11 inserts a possibility,

Now, I have an easy way of troubleshooting all of those parallel connections,

Surface mount RJ11's or 4-prong jacks close to the floor in a damp locations high probability. Spider webs the likely cause.

I;m planning quad to cat 5 connections too.

==

Your NID may have a 1/2 ringer. Understanding how the NID works helps.

Ron D.
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:34 pm   



I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when
someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore
removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time
to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use
from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due
other devices loading.

==


It's not likely a device, but wiring, particularly in a jack.

Resistance, toward the house in a disconnected NID is where you start, Use the binary search technique where you remove half of the phones, Go out to the demark. Measure. If a high resistance is not present add half of them back.
If you had 1000 phones, it would take like 10 tries. Look up "binary search".

Ron D.
Guest

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:40 pm   



For 12 phones make it 8 (A) and 4 (B)
problem exist when set A is connected, 1/2 it
(4)-c and 4(d)
is it c or d?
lets say D
break D down to E(2) and F(2)
Is it in F?
Break down F into G(1) and H(1)

BINGO!

It's easier to make the initial 1/2 a power of 2.


Guest

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:17 pm   



Quote:
Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

UPDATE:


This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

John

Dave Platt
Guest

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:05 am   



In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0c1mv0vg05pb2ev4o2_at_4ax.com>,
<jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:

Quote:
This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.


That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

Michael Terrell
Guest

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:02 am   



On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 11:07:20 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:
Quote:
In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0c1mv0vg05pb2ev4o2_at_4ax.com>,
jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.


Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.

Chuck
Guest

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:05 pm   



On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:02:24 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 11:07:20 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0c1mv0vg05pb2ev4o2_at_4ax.com>,
jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.

Had the same problem with AT&T. After dicking me around for 10 years,
a tech told me there was water in a quarter mile long underground
cable and they weren't going to replace it.

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