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Verizon Telephone Ringer ISSUE (land line)

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Ron D.
Guest

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:06 pm   



You need to make sure that the connecting cable is also different.

Also be aware that the telco repair person might not be knowledgeable either.

I asked the repair person that came out for a service call should the cord from the jack to the wall be straight or crossed. He said he taught technicians and the cord should be straight-thru which is the wrong answer.

Only patch cables should be straight-thru.

Most modern phones don;t care if the wires are crossed or straight and, it appears, that neither do the phone technicians. Old bell touch tone phones must have the polarity to work for the keypad to work.

The "protector" and the interface (jack and 1/2 ringer) can also be a source of potential problems. There also might be two protectors. One in the NID and one inside from old wiring.

The 1/2 ringer can sometimes be removed when you have DSL.

Wet spider webs have been the big issues for me as well as connections from the CO. One guy came back and said I just removed 1000 feet from your service, Another guy came back with a foot of spliced cable where the insulation was removed in places and said this was your problem.

The telco guy typically deals with the naked pairs and removes the NID from being the problem.


Guest

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:45 pm   



On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:05:16 -0600, Chuck <ch_at_dejanews.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:02:24 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a_at_gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 11:07:20 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0c1mv0vg05pb2ev4o2_at_4ax.com>,
jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.
Had the same problem with AT&T. After dicking me around for 10 years,
a tech told me there was water in a quarter mile long underground
cable and they weren't going to replace it.

True Story.
Back in the 80s I lived in a Redmond WA neighborhood that had all
sorts of water problems. I had to deal with tons of water flowing
across my property from uphill houses. My phone started getting all
sorts of static on it but I wasn't surprised because we had GTE and
they seemed to be light on servicing their equipment. We had a phone
box in our front yard. One of those small boxes that sits atop a pipe.
The box was probably 14 inches long by 4 inches wide by about the same
deep. Anyway, I went outside for some reason and water is squirting
out of the box seams! It was hilarious. Static problem found. So I
went inside and called GTE to tell them about it. The woman I spoke to
told me that water was not used in phone systems. I insisted that I
knew that and that's why I called. Water was not supposed to be
squirting out of their phone box. I finally convinced her to send out
someone and she told me that I was going to be charged a service fee
if I was wrong about water coming out of their box. When the service
guy arrived and saw the box he was shocked and then laughed out loud.
Needless to say there was no charge on my phone bill.
Eric

Jon Elson
Guest

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:45 am   



On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:13:23 -0500, jaugustine wrote:


Quote:
When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded
sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters
might
cause this problem?

Do you have any buzzing, hum or crackling when on this phone line?
That is a strong suggestion of a "ground on the line" ie. one of the
wires has a pinhole and is leaking current to the earth. These can be
intermittent and cause all sorts of odd system behavior, such as no ring,
hangups after ring (ring voltage increases ground leakage so CO thinks
line has been picked up momentarily, then drops the call) and of course,
in the worst case, no dial tone.

Jon

Michael Terrell
Guest

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:45 am   



On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:04:16 PM UTC-5, Chuck wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:02:24 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell wrote:
On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 11:07:20 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0c1mv0vg05pb2ev4o2_at_4ax.com>,
jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades.. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.
Had the same problem with AT&T. After dicking me around for 10 years,
a tech told me there was water in a quarter mile long underground
cable and they weren't going to replace it.


The on hook voltage often dropped to a little under 4VDC. It was rarely above 30VDC. The techs that came said the entire subdivision had very old underground cable and over half the pairs were open. A few homes were fed from two pairs, each with an open wire. The line was always noisy. I only kept it, because cell service and internet went down during heavy storms and hurricanes. Cell service here has improved quite a bit in the last 20 years.


Guest

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:45 pm   



On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 07:17:46 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Quote:
Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

MORE UPDATE:


A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).

John

KenW
Guest

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:45 pm   



On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:24:52 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 07:17:46 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

MORE UPDATE:

A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).

John

If it is a high resistance short they may find it after a time. Bitchy
to find.


KenW

Michael Terrell
Guest

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:45 am   



On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 7:25:32 AM UTC-5, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 07:17:46 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

MORE UPDATE:

A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).


Last mile. between your DEMARC and their SLIC where up to 16 lines are multiplexed to a single pair o the C. O. More lines, if it s Fiber Optic to the C.O, They work from the SLIc towards your house, looking for problems.


Guest

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:45 pm   



<SNIP>

Quote:
UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

MORE UPDATE:

A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).

Last mile. between your DEMARC and their SLIC where up to 16 lines are multiplexed to a single pair o the C. O. More lines, if it s Fiber Optic to the C.O, They work from the SLIc towards your house, looking for problems.


FINAL UPDATE:

On Wednesday, 2 Verizon service men showed up. They did some testing at
the pole first, and concluded the problem is in the house.

Note: The previous owner of this house had two phone lines coming in
from the pole, and several lines inside the house.

The service men rewired the main jack, and removed the MOVs surge
protectors (I installed years ago). They ran more ringing tests and since
then, the telephone ALWAYS rings when someone calls.

I tested the MOV surge protectors and they "clamp" at 250 volts. Even
though they seem to be OK, I am going to order new ones.

FYI: Ringing voltage is about 90VAC (20HZ) unloaded (no devices on
line). This is RMS voltage with a PEAK voltage around 127VAC.

Thanks again to everyone, John

Lucifer
Guest

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:45 am   



On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:21:50 -0500, jaugustine_at_verizon.net wrote:

Quote:
UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring.


Is your phone connected to your modem or are you still on ADSL?

Rob
Guest

Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 pm   



jaugustine_at_verizon.net <jaugustine_at_verizon.net> wrote:
Quote:
The service men rewired the main jack, and removed the MOVs surge
protectors (I installed years ago). They ran more ringing tests and since
then, the telephone ALWAYS rings when someone calls.

I tested the MOV surge protectors and they "clamp" at 250 volts. Even
though they seem to be OK, I am going to order new ones.


I installed MOVs on my phone line years ago, they failed when there was
a nearby lightning strike (I suppose they did their work). I had to
remove them to get the line working again (which was ISDN at that time,
so 90V DC all the time) and ever since then the two defective MOVs have
been laying in a corner of my electronics work desk waiting for me to
get new ones.... never got around to ordering some, and the local
electronics store where I bought them has long been closed down.

It may be that they were the cause, but of course it may just as well
have been a bad contact that they fixed by fiddling with it.

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