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UHF reception relay

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Guest

Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:41 pm   



I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

Tom Gardner
Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:27 am   



On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
Quote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?


If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.

Tom Gardner
Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:30 am   



On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
Quote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?


Of course if it has only recently become poor, and suddenly become
poor, then it might be due to interference from 4G.

If so then at800 /must/ provide you with an alternative means of
receiving TV (whatever that means), up to a cost of 10000 per
home.

If it is 4G related, *please* inform us and everybody else of
how well at800 does or doesn't do their job.

Jasen Betts
Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:16 pm   



On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
Quote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?


I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,

--
umop apisdn

RobertMacy
Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:01 pm   



On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

Quote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.


Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.


Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:39 pm   



On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:30:00 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Of course if it has only recently become poor, and suddenly become
poor, then it might be due to interference from 4G.

If so then at800 /must/ provide you with an alternative means of
receiving TV (whatever that means), up to a cost of £10000 per
home.

If it is 4G related, *please* inform us and everybody else of
how well at800 does or doesn't do their job.


The reception has been poor ever since the transition to digital TV.
There is also a railroad track nearby, and whenever a train goes by,
out line of sight to the transmitting stations in our area is blocked
by big metal objects--i.e. the train. What I contemplate is a relay
mounted on the roof that can catch the signal up high, and then send
it down into the house.


Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:41 pm   



On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:27:07 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.

The set-up that I am contemplating would direct the signals down toward
my house, at low power. I think this would not be a legal problem, as
the signals would be at the level of common FM transmitters for use
with mp3 players.


Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:42 pm   



On 8 Oct 2014 09:16:44 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen_at_xnet.co.nz> wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,


That's exactly what I have in mind. Are there any plans and schematics
on the web that I could use?


Guest

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:44 pm   



On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:01:48 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.


That's the idea, although I would like to build in some signal boost
capability. And I would like to use typical, compact DTV antennas.
Know of any examples or plans I could copy?

Tom Gardner
Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:19 am   



On 08/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 23:27:07 +0100, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
On 07/10/14 20:41, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

If in the UK and transmitting through the ether (as opposed to cable),
you would be well advised to contact OFCOM to see what licences you
will need.

Transmitting without a licence is, of course, an offence.

The set-up that I am contemplating would direct the signals down toward
my house, at low power. I think this would not be a legal problem, as
the signals would be at the level of common FM transmitters for use
with mp3 players.


What you and I think is irrelevant.

What the law says is relevant, as is the probability of being
discovered and taken to court.

I suspect that merely reflecting or diverting incident power
would not be classed a transmitter. Any active amplification
might be a problem.

Tom Gardner
Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:26 am   



On 08/10/14 20:42, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
Quote:
On 8 Oct 2014 09:16:44 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen_at_xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2014-10-07, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:
I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

I don't think you'll find an ISM band wide enough to carry the DTV
broadcast band.

what about a passive repeater? two high-gain antennas one pointing at the
transmitter the other at your indoor antenna,

That's exactly what I have in mind. Are there any plans and schematics
on the web that I could use?


Passive repeaters don't need any electricity. Your requirement for a
solar cell and battery indicates that you are /not/ thinking of a
passive repeater.

BTW, not having a cable won't prevent a lightning strike.

Cables (in the form of lightning conductors) do *reduce*
the probability of a lightning strike (as well as conducting
a bolt to earth if lightning strikes)
..

Tom Gardner
Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:27 am   



On 08/10/14 20:44, kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 07:01:48 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:41:11 -0700, <kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com> wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

Not sure will work here, but could be worth a try. One antenna to receive
and at the same location another antenna to 'retransmit' towards your
safely mounted receiving antenna. Totally passive, requiring NO license.
Essentially, you're bending and focussing the signal to get it up over the
S/N required at your receiver.

This has been done on a mountain top in Colorado to 'bend' the signal over
the top, down into the valley for anybody to receive. Just one extremely
high gain antenna receiving and one high gain antenna pointing the other
way to 'retransmit' down into the valley. Two antennas mounted close to
each other on a pole, out there in lightning country, with two antennas
connected by a cable, no power, just some 'game playing'. Worst case
scenario is you may need to replace the melted structure once in a while.

That's the idea, although I would like to build in some signal boost
capability. And I would like to use typical, compact DTV antennas.
Know of any examples or plans I could copy?


In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.

RobertMacy
Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:50 am   



On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.


I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output
being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that
oscillator.

also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just
some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.

Tom Gardner
Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:30 pm   



On 08/10/14 23:50, RobertMacy wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:27:23 -0700, Tom Gardner <spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

...snip....
In which case it is no longer passive and will require a
licence (almost certainly).

Do the job properly: either ask OFCOM or run a cable.

I've never gotten a broadband amplifier to operate well with its output being fed back into the input willy nilly. Unless I originally wnated that oscillator.


:)


> also, a fibre glass pole has some chance of not attracting lightning. just some chance, because when it comes to high voltage EVERYTHING conducts.

Lightning conductors actually /deflect/ the chance
of a lightning strike, since their sharp point tends
to /reduce/ the ionisation in the vicinity.

If there is a strike, the conductor tends to shunt
the current to ground.


Guest

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:34 pm   



On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:15:56 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtrie_at_pixelmemory.us> wrote:
Quote:
In article <slrnm38gd7.6mj.kpgpbhdw_at_localhost.localdomain>,
kpgpbhdw_at_kpgpbhdw.com wrote:

I am thinking of building some sort of device that can recieve DTV
signals, amplify them, and transmit them downward. This is to deal
with bad DTV reception at my house, where line of sight is poor.
The device would be mounted on the roof, and powered by a solar cell and
rechargeable battery system. The advantage over a conventional outdoor
TV antenna would be not requiring any cabling or lightning protection,
as the device would be electrically self-contained (and held up by a
wooden frame).

Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me towards resources for doing
this?

Thanks.

A normal mast-mounted amplifier with a low gain should work. They
usually run off 9 to 15 VDC @ 20mA. Lithium Iron Phosphate and Lead
Acid are the easiest types to charge. You can buy a solar recharger.

The hard part will be making sure that you're not illegally broadcasting
interference outside your property. The retransmission will be prone to
feedback, over-modulation, and multi-path.

I'd simply use a longer cable to where the signal is better.


I was trying to avoid the cost and compexity of a lightning arrestor,
and the large size of most outdoor antennas. The input and output
antennas could be separated by a RF shield to prevent feedback. I am
located in the USA, not the UK. Here, low power transmitters don't
require a license. Since the incoming signal would be repeated exactly,
and redirected downward, there should be no effect on neighboring
receivers, other than perhaps to improve their reception.

I would still like to hear from anyone who has done something like what
I have in mind.

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